RogueMechanic@g

Hello All,

I hope that this message finds everyone well.
To all who have a Campy Ultra Torque crankset/bottom bracket system, you might find this interesting...

https://roguemechanic.typepad.com/rog...nolo-ul-1.html

Let me know what you think and if you have any questions.

Thanks!

John

www.roguemechanic.com

JayC

Your link does not work.

CastIron

The signature link gets the job done.

UT cranks have had some grumblings about bearing exposure, but this, if I read correctly, is more of a concern about outboard crank design. Personally, my Veloce UT is rock solid.

Perhaps an executive summary is in order using more pedestrian terms.

Edit: Now I understand better (read it again with video). Hmm... I'll have to look again. You may be on to something.

SKYLAB

Post too long and too fubar'd with the short lines.
I've got Record UT. Can you put that post into a summary?

Hocam

Square taper FTW!!!!!!!!!!!!111111elven

steaktaco

He discovered something no one else has is what he's saying. You should switch to 105 is what he's saying.

jccaclimber

I'll summarize it, and it isn't really that long. Shimano made an outboard bearing setup which allowed for different BB shell widths. Campy made an outboard bearing setup that works with only one width. Due to the fact that some BB shells are wider than they should be, Campy made their BB spindles just a bit too long and then added a kluge (wave washer and retainer spring) to try to allow the setup to work on frames with normal or slightly narrow BB shells. As a result, unless your BB shell is wider than it should be, there will always be a bit of lateral play in your BB, which may lead to creaking and other noises.

Rutnick

thousands of miles on several different frames with zero issues. I'm glad someone could read that garbage though.

Quijibo187

Interesting..... makes sense. We havn't had any issues with the UT system though, and that's on a variety of bikes (mostly Wililer and LOOK).
I have had the same type of problem with my FSA cranks though, there's play, but no sound so I just ride it as is.

CastIron

That's how I read it. Funny thing is, why don't they include additional wave washers for this? Or just bring back square taper.

Campag4life

My BB measures nominal and there is no lateral play in my UT Chorus crank and it has been flawless.

Hammertoe

Don't now if this is due to the problem it but my Record UT drive side bearing failed quite quickly (< 1000 miles)...

I had a clicking when pedaling that drove me nuts...

I tried everything and took the Record group set off and set it aside...

I then changed the bearing and the clicking went away...

Did play in the crank cause quick failure of the bearing???

challaday

I thought the entire reason behind UT and all the other outboard bearing was that it placed the bearings closer to the end of BB "spindle" (which really doesn't even exist in these designs) because it would decrease the leverage ratio of downward pressure on the spindle. Square taper still has bearings closer together with a lot of the spindle past the bearing.

If I recall, that was the also the reason why the freehub won the technology battle over the standard screw-on freewheel. I don't know if the same logic should apply, but it seems that the manufacturers have decided it should with the newer BB systems.

damocles1

I just replaced one on a Colnago CLX. The BB started creaking about 4 weeks (600 miles) after installation. I pulled everything apart about 4 times and the creak would go away and then return.
Finally, it started making a SEVERE creaking/cracking noise.
Pulled apart again and the driveside bearing fell out...in three pieces.

I wondered about the fixed distance set-up when I was installing the thing. Looks like others have encountered problems as well...

jccaclimber

I don't think this issue would cause the issue you are describing, although anything is possible.

Erzulis Boat 

Once again, keeping up with the Jones'.

This is truly lame. My newest set of Record components is having issues all around.

Bottom bracket bearings are toast, pedals lasted a year (Speedplay X- going strong for 12 years now) and brake lever pivot holes ovalized/elongated.

Went back to square taper, no problems.

Thank god for 11 Speed!!!!!!!! have not even sorted 10 Speed yet. Gimmicks.

Hocam

I'll let you all in on a little secret...

Listings from weightweenies:

2004 Campy record carbon square taper crankset: 543 grams
Crank fixing bolts 32 grams
Phil Wood Ti square taper bottom bracket: 135 grams

Total: 710

2007 UT record carbon cranakset: 640 grams
Record UT cups: 57 grams

Total: 697



Difference: 13 grams!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1111

rmwkokomo

It is a little more than that - you did not include the weight of the Phil Wood BB cups.

Erzulis Boat 

Campagnolo used to be a safe bet.

You got Record, and it was going to last, and work day in/day out.

Campagnolo represented innovation and quality.

Now it seems that Campagnolo no longer holds the innovation card. Coming out with 11 Speed when 10 Speed was already a gimmick is not innovation. This is starting to get old.

I am a "Campagnolo Man", but even I can see the writing on the wall. Where do I turn?

You have Sram getting a nice chunk of market share, and Shimano is going strong so Campagnolo tries to dazzle us with BS. Once Campy loses the reputation of excellence and durability, they will not have crap. They have already shown their ***** with the outrageous cost, so there is no going back.

I feel let down.

My last Record gruppo that is still sound was from 2000 or so.

"Racers demanded 11 Speed" Pure and utter marketing BS, Campy...... we are not stupid.

The wave of the future- Less speeds! After they go to 13 Speed, they will say that racers demand less! They go back 8 or 9 with a decent chain and less dish, whilst saving 200+ grams. What a joke.

CastIron

Anyone else think it's odd the OP joined today and has the same thing going at RBR (C-40's post is rather interesting)?

Campag4life

A lot of speculation here so will clear something up for the technically challenged. Fractional end play by design has NOTHING to due to with UT cartridge bearing failures. The design is sound. The wave washer takes up end play and end play tolerance due to BB tolerance has nothing to do with failure unless the BB width is seriously oversized which should be checked upon assembly. Cartridge bearing failure may just be that...a bad batch of bearings. Also, some that fail may be ridden in foul weather quite a bit where PM is required and cartridge bearings tend to be less sensitive to water ingress due to poor weather conditions. UT is far superior to square taper....I have ridden both.

cuski

Just like the bad batch of LOOK Keo pedals... My 2007 Centaur UT has more than 6000 kms on it, and still works flawlessly.

damocles1

You sure don't know much for being so technologically astute...
If you have side to side play that creates movement to the inner bearing surface of a cartridge bearing, it's going bind, albeit slightly, and release with every pedal stroke. Cartridge bearings are good at taking vertical loads, not so much with horizontal loads. Introduce horizontal loading and the bearing will, in fact, fail.
The one I replaced is ridden by a 60 year old guy who NEVER rides in the rain.

Campag4life

Yeah...UT compared to square taper is no comparison. Every design has an achilles heel. In the case of squre taper its the crankarm stability and torque sensitivity of the taper spindle relative to the broached taper crankarm square. Inboard bearings don't hold a candle to outboard bearings either. UT is a very elegant design...stiffer, more simple and should provide better life and serviceability.

JayC

I think its someone spamming their blog trying to get people to read it.