Aeroplane

Hi folks,

Last weekend I bought a cheap tandem (Pacific Dualie, probably universally reviled here) on CL to get my wife and I into sharing a ride. I'm a fairly experienced cyclist (advanced MTB rider, beginner roadie and BMX), but my stoker is definitely a n00b; when we ride our singles together she stresses about getting started at red lights and general low-speed riding.

She loves riding the tandem. She never has to worry about steering, because all the steering is my problem, and we constantly talk about what we are doing ("Okay, let's coast now," "Can we slow down?" "Let's go fast now!", etc.) I love it too, I get to ride, have a good time, and spend time with my wife.

There are a couple things that I've been faking my way through, however. Whenever we start riding, thus far we've used the "standard" mount method where we each have one foot on the ground. When we do this, the front end shimmies a lot; it kind of freaks me out that I've got to fight so hard to keep it up. Is this normal, something I should/will learn to minimize, or just a by-product of a junky bike? Same goes for really any slower-speed maneuvers. I'd like to some day move up to a co-motion or something, but I figure I'd better get a handle on this stuff quickly.

zonatandem

Perhaps it is both??? Just kiddin'!
Agree on the crappy bike . . . can't expect a diamond for a rhinestone price can you?
If you are a bit handy with bike mechanics check the whole bike over; headset may be ill-adjusted, wheels untrue, etc.
On the crappy pilot . . . it's a bit of a learning curve to ride a tandem properly/efficiently.
Try an alternate metchod for starting off on that Dualie:
Pilot mounts bike first; put both feet flat on the ground and hold both brakes.
Then stoker gets on the bike and gets seated, feet on pedals/clipped in.
Have her rotate the pedals backward to get up the pedal you want to start off with (if necessary). Yes, the bike may lean a bit as you are ready to take off.
On the count of 3, let go of the brakes and push off.
Communication is key, and seems you are doing that OK.
When stopping at light/stop sign, stoker stays seated and clipped in. Pilot puts one or both feet on the ground (whichever suits you best).
The Dualie will let you know if you like tandeming; then save some $$ and buy a better 2-seater.
Enjoy the ride TWOgether!
Rudy and Kay/zonatandem

WebsterBikeMan

Couple of minor edits:
Pilot straddles bike first, feet flat on ground, far enough apart that pedals don't hit shins when spun. Depending on size, saddle or top tube can be pressed against one leg - quite stable.
To start, lift your weight onto the high pedal while straightening that leg. That will start the bike moving forward while simultaneously letting you get seated.
As far as the low speed turns, it may be partly the bike, but the first few(?) times on even the best of tandems low speed turns feel squirrelly. So that may well improve with experience. It will always need a wider turning circle than a single, though.

DCwom

We recently purchased a new tandem, and in our case the tandem is "highier-end" than our singles. With that said the tandem does drive differently than the singles and feels somewhat "crappy" at low speed, however once we get going the tandem is much smoother than our singles.

yeamac 

As an owner of a Caddie Up Tandem (similar to Pacific Dualie) and a Cannondale, the squirrelly feeling when starting up has more to do with your starting technique and inexperience than with the tandem itself. In other words, don't expect your low speed maneuvers to improve just because you upgrade to a higher priced tandem.

For me the method suggested by Zona and Webster is the better method, pilot mounts first, holds bike stable, stoker mounts with both feet on the pedals, then start up. The trick as the captain is to learn to start the tandem keeping it upright with no leaning (I have a tendency to lean my single when starting). The problem with the "standard" method as you call it is that you have two adults trying to get their feet on the pedals and balancing at the same time which sometimes works against each other, making it harder for the captain. With the stoker in place, the stoker can apply full power to the pedals and will keep balanced better.

I would suggest changing starting methods. And once the two of you start to enjoy tandem riding more, the Co-Motion would make a great anniversary/Christmas present to yourselves.

Aeroplane

So I can't just blame it all on the bike? Nuts!

Thanks for the tips folks, we will try that other starting method on tonight's jaunt around the 'hood. The stoker will be happy to hear that we can't buy our way out of it as she is the one with pocket-book restraint.

conspiratemus

Agree: the Standard Method is actually as described by Zona and Webster above: stoker clips in both feet first, never puts a foot down for the whole ride except for prolonged pauses (e.g., waiting at railway crossings for really long trains, NOT at mere stop lights.) Starting with both of you one foot on the ground is a bad habit best broken early. BUT NEVER DUMP YOUR STOKER!!! (You have to be worthy of her trust, otherwise she won't sit still and go with your flow.)

Low-speed turns do feel funny at first, particularly if you have a bike where you can get toe strike on the tire with the handlebars sharply turned -- gives you one more thing to think about when trying to haul the long bike around. But you should aspire with practice to do a 180 within the width of a normal two-lane residential street -- traffic permitting of course -- without fouling in the gravel shoulder or hitting the curbs, and without suffering a "wheel stall" and dumping the bike. This isn't a stunt. It's a practical necessity if you find that you made a wrong turn and need to turn around with a minimum of fuss.

Practise to perfection on your junky bike and then think how much more you'll enjoy your new one.

Onegun

Disagree: https://billnmaggi.tandemrides.com/debunk/

tmhudg

Here's a video version of the method described above.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pm4Hf4izxtw

Tom

StephenH

I've got a cheap Huffy tandem, probably from the 60's. I've ridden it just a little bit. What I noticed, though, was that the frame seems unduly flexible. It feels like you can keep the front end upright, but the back end can still flex to one side or the other. It may be a perception thing more than anything- it's certainly not visible. But I would hope that a higher quality tandem feels better than that, and maybe some of the folks riding tandems here haven't really experienced a crappy one to know what it's like. Of course, a heavier and/or taller stoker would make that more noticeable.

On the steering, you have to oversteer to stay up, and the slower you ride, the more exaggerated that becomes. If you're not falling over, sounds like you're doing okay there.

Onegun

Your 60s Huffy would probably be more flexible than the newer Pacific Dualie with oversized tubing, but not by much. They are both low-end, plain steel frames, and will tend to wag their tail as you ride, particularly at slow speed.

To Aeroplane, you may well do better with your stoker staying up, but I think that only because you stated she stresses at stops and starts even on a single. If your stoker is less experienced and/or less coordinated, that is a very good reason to start off using that method. But either way is correct if it works for you. My guess would be that about 2/3 start off with the stoker up, and about 1/3 start with both having a foot down. In actuality, most experienced teams can do either way equally as well.

As for your bike, it may feel a little better that way too, but the squirrelly feeling won't go away entirely on that bike. You, however, will adjust to it.

Oh, and StephenH, you're right. Most here haven't ridden a really low end tandem, so they don't know that a lot of what Aeroplane described is inherent in the bike. A very astute observation.

Stray8

I have the Pacific Dualie tandem and I don't have this problem since the captain starts off after the stoker gets on. The oversized frame tubing is strong and removes any sense of flexing (compared with old 60s and 70s tandems). The only downside is relative weight which isn't a real problem if you're not time trialing. Inexpensive does not always equal crappy.

OP and his wife enjoy riding the tandem. And so they got a great deal which they can enjoy and maybe even upgrade at some point.

Green-eyed meanies might feel that this makes their own extensive (relatively exorbitant?) expense invested to achieve similar satisfaction disturbed to the point where they can't be happy for OP. Sad to see the "spandex weenie" mentality permeate the tandem crowd. But I suppose that if there were a unicycle forum, there'd be members championing expensive top-end unicycles to newbies who expressly say that they can't afford them.


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Aeroplane

Very useful! Thanks for this!

Yeah, haven't noticed any flexiness in the frame. The main "junky" parts are the cranks and old-style of certain parts (threaded headset, seatposts with seat-guts). Brakes and wheels seem good enough, thank God. Shifters are fine for 7-speed, front derailleur is a piece of junk, but I definitely have a bias against front derailleurs (only 1 of my 5 bikes has one). It is heavy though, I have to psych myself up every time I put it on top of the car (kind of a clean-and-jerk). That will be one of the main benefits of upgrading, I think. Eventually. Until then I will take traveling with it as an excuse to work my upper body.

yeamac 

Its OK. Those that perceive all inexpensive steel tandems as being "flexy" will notice it for you.



Please tell me some/most of your rides you leave from the house. I couldn't imagine loading one of these steal beasties on top of a vehicle every time we wanted to go for a ride.

DCwom

When we bought our tandem this spring we thought it would be primarily for home based rides, but since we're tandem honeymooners we've been riding like rabbits I've discovered that it fits pretty easily in the mini van with the back seat removed so transport has become even easier than hauling the singles further encouraging our tandem togatherness.

rdtompki

Our tandem weights about 40 lbs I think with waterbottle cages, rear rack and pedals. Loading on top of a car depends largely on roof height although a number of folks carry a low stool. Our VW Jetta wagon is low so loading is not much of a problem. I do normally use the rotating fork mount feature on our ATOC rack, but it's not that bad loading without it. Problem with the tandem racks is that they're expensive; believe it's called supply and demand

Aeroplane

Yeah, luckily most of our rides are from home, but this last weekend we took it to the Cape for some intense rail trail action.

Driving a golf with a normal thule side-arm mount, works surprisingly well! The mount is juuuuust far forward enough on the rack to let the rear wheel rest on the roof.

dvs cycles

Yes we know

conspiratemus

Thank you for that description of the aspects of your bike that might appear as low-quality. I will hazard a guess therefore that its ride and handling (as long as the headset is not so worn that it rattles and shudders) will not be hugely worse (from a safety/skills development perspective) than your eventual much more expensive one. Go to it!

zonatandem

There are many pricey tandems gathering dust in garages . . . and Dualies being ridden . . .
While we wear cycling clothes (spandex/jerseys) we do not have the weenie mentallity.
Have actually taught well over a hundred couple how to ride 'in tandem'.
Have ridden over 30 brands/models of tandems from cheapie $200 to $13,000 tandems in our 34+ years of riding as a duo.
And have actually ridden a few rather expensive 'crappy' tandems.
Enjoy the ride TWOgether!
Rudy and Kay/zonatandem

Stray8

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wobblyoldgeezer

I'm late to this thread, so apologies if it's already run its course

But one of the OP's comments was about slow riding on a tandem, and slow speed turning

For what it's worth - I used to teach motorcycle riding to newcomers. A lot in common with Tandems and motorcycles, mainly that they are heavy and have a lot of momentum to manage and keep upright

Low speed manoevres and especially u-turns on both, 3 essentials

1 Look where you're going. For a u-turn, look 180 degrees behind you at the START of the turn. Really - look right behind you. Creak your neck right over your shoulder

2 Get in a very low gear, and keep a little power on. On a tandem, pedal a little bit round the turn. Not forcefully, just a little forward force from the back wheel. Keep all that weight stable with a tad of forward force. If you don't, there's a possibility of the bike collapsing into the inside of the turn

3 Adjust your speed with a feather touch of the BACK brake. (You know which one that is, I trust. BACK brake. Not the front one. Front one will have you on the floor. It's easier to remember on motorcycles, back brake's the foot brake on those). Forward power for stability and a touch of back brake to adjust your line is perfectly acceptable at the same time, doesn't have to be 'either/or'. They work well together.

It's surprising how nimble a big heavy tandem can be with a touch of power on and a touch of rear brake to adjust things

Hope you continue to enjoy many happy miles

conspiratemus

Very nice tutorial. You're obviously not really a wobbly old geezer.

TandemGeek

IMHO, the latter is actually the key.

When riding at near stall speeds, making slow tight turns or making U-turns keep the positive pressure on the pedals AND positive pressure on the rear brake so that the drive train / tandem stays under load; however, use the rear brake to control your speed.

It sounds counter-intuitive but it really works well... on tandems or single bikes.

This is also one of the tricks for doing short-duration track stands on a tandem at stop signs or stale stop lights when there's no incline or road crown against which to work the pedal pressure. Note: I'm not recommending the track stands, just 'splaining how some folks are able to pull off this stupid tandem trick.

Onegun

I agree that BOTH is usually the key. However, I prefer to "jack" the outside pedal for that positive pressure rather than pedal continuously. (Another trick learned from trackstanding bikes with freewheels. Before you try this, though, make SURE you have toe clearance to the front wheel on your bike.) Naturally, you have to modulate the rear brake accordingly, but it quickly becomes second nature.

This technique also avoids the situation where you unexpectedly NEED more power in the turn, yet find the pedals in the vertical position. It also separates the "power" leg from the inside "landing" leg should you need it.