Syncmaster

I'm not exactly sure why all you guys are saying that the guy "kept coming after him." If you watch the video. After the first confrontation ends, we see this:



They're separated, and the physical interaction has ended. Even if the guy was still talking smack, the cyclist could have just ridden away. Instead, this happens:



The cyclist charges back towards the man and starts the SECOND physical fight. The cyclist clearly engaged again when he could have just ridden away. There was no indication that the guy was coming back at the cyclist.

oneangrytoast

via bikesnob: Put yourself in this particular Nü-Fred's MKS toe clips for a moment if you will.

classic.

also, ulocks are heavy as ****. dont hit people with them.

also, that dude could have been one bruce lee mother****er, u never know.

also, dude should have ridden away 100%.

also, i havent been in a real one on one fight since middle school. id rather argue, cuz im intelligent, and i will belittle you with my words, not my hands. fighting will get you put in jail, where you may or may not have to fight people who have nothing to lose or live for. u dont want to fight people like that, ever.

also, im 250lbs and around 6', so dont think im scared to fight. i grew up playing hockey. i just choose not to anymore.

could you just imagine if he HAD knocked that dude out or maybe even killed him, which im pretty sure isnt THAT far out of an idea.

way to go to jail for murder, bike dude. ::thumbs up::

Retem

It is hard to tell who is at fault.
I have knocked a few asshats off their bikes for cutting my off when I am walking and had the right of way. there is always an exchange of words but no one wants to press the matter beyond that.


If the bicyclist was in the wrong he is lucky he didn't get shot or stabbed by the pedestrian
If the pedestrian was in the wrong (jay walking) than he escalated the situation and probably should have gotten no more than a roll by pimp slap

oneangrytoast

if he (old guy) had nothing to defend himself with or cause harm with, i just dont get how anybody could say "he had it coming" when it comes to getting hit with a god damned u lock. christ.

edited for grammatical reasons

Retem

yeah on careful consideration I have edited my post to reflect what I would have done

oneangrytoast

HAHAHA slapping is so legit. it says "ill make you my *****" without all the swollen knuckles of punching.

respek.

Southernwayfare

Just as an aside...I'm not sure if the cyclist was a messenger or not but I know that things get pretty tense on the NYC streets particularly for cyclist who spend a lot of time jockeying around with the crazy drivers. The messenger/cabbie thing is particularly out of hand. I used to spend a lot of time on my bike in Manhattan (but not as a messenger) and two stories stand out from that time...


1)I once came upon an altercation between a cabbie and a messenger. There was a lot of yelling back and forth then the messenger hopped on the hood of a yellow cab and kick in the front windshield. I didn't see what precipitated the altercation but DAMN that was intense.

2)(I didn’t see this one but my close friend was a witness) Two cyclists are in argument with a cabbie at an intersection. The cabbie gets out of his car after one of the cyclists pushes the cabbie through the window. As the cabbie approaches the cyclist who pushed him, the other cyclist reaches into the car, grabs the cabbies keys and throws them in the sewer drain at the curb and the two cyclists ride off.

Syncmaster

Damn! Probably more embarrassing than getting a ulock to the face. Poor dude, just like the messenger's bike is his livelihood, the cabbie's cab is his.

Syncmaster

On a side note.... could this video be used as evidence to press charges against the cyclist? Wonder what this kid is thinking right now. A huge population of the cycling community is watching this video and judging his actions.....

oneangrytoast

ehhhh, im no lawyer but im guessing a big ol' fat yes to that one.

Ka_Jun

because, as we know, all Asians know martial arts, right?

synapsemusic

I think the point here that some people seem to missing is that the cyclist should not have gotten off his bike in the first place. I'm glad I just got back from an ethics class, in which we discussed preventative war. For a war to be just, it has to be (among other things) in response to a direct attack. Note that this eliminates the possibility of preventative war. The UN security council agrees with this and does not recognize and preventative war as just. Not only does there have to be an attack, but actions taken in response to this attack have to be proportional to the original attack. I'd love to go get my book and drop some more facts, but i find it unnecessary. So maybe the pedestrian verbally accosted the biker, or threw a bottle at him. Maybe he even did take a swing at him. This might justify the biker to throw back a quick "**** you" and then pedal off. I didn't see the pedestrian holding a U-lock, thus making the cyclists actions unnecessary. However, the proportionality here is meaningless when compared with the overall lesson here. It is obvious that the cyclist should have never gotten off his bicycle. Period. The only reasons I can see for getting off my bike and hitting someone IN THE HEAD with a u-lock are 1.) I saw them hit a woman 2.) I saw them hit a member of my family. That's about it. Somebody suggested that this had "happened to the biker before". Maybe so, but this makes his actions even less valid. In the same way US courts are not allowed to issue sentences designed to make an example of a criminal, persons are not allowed to engage in altercations simply based on the idea that they can revenge previous injustices.

If anyone objects to any points I've made, please let me know. I'd be happy to defend my position on any of this.

Retem

Oh great another self righteous college kid rehashing what his books told him about war and peace.

First off the Useless Nations are just that useless how do you get humanitarian aid to people when the warlords are more willing to fight than the humanitarian force.

Second your right the cyclist shouldn't have gotten off his bike but an attitude of appeasement is what let the Nazis take over half of Europe. Get over your school learned facts do a little studying out side of the syllabus. Your professor is just propagating his view after all he more than likely co-authored the course literature.

Third go read "The Art Of War" if you want to understand war.

By all means continue living your life the way you want I will keep living mine to defend your right to live that way.

Retem

wait isn't this a response to a "direct action"

Raiden

It's hard to tell why he got off the bike, whether he was grabbed, or tripped himself up- but the first thing he did was start walking away. The guy he was arguing with was only a couple feet away, so the cyclist couldn't mount his bike and ride away- that would leave him standing still with his back turned for a few seconds.

I don't have an issue with the u-lock. The old guy was the aggressor originally, and he should have been smart enough to back away when he saw the kid reaching for a weapon. The pictures above almost had me convinced that the kid started the second brawl- except those pictures are mid-motion- the kid hadn't taken more than a step away, and the old guy continued forward. Again, if the old man didn't want to get clubbed again, he shouldve backed away. If the cyclist had enough space, he could've ridden away.

You never know what someones abilities are, or what they're carrying, or if they'll just get lucky that day. Don't spare anyone an inch, and know when you're outmatched. F legality, this is common sense.

And all that crap about ethical war is hilarious. That kind of thinking comes from politicians that see you as a statistic- an acceptable loss. Applied to a streetfight, you're saying that you'd lose an eye just to be 'right'.

PS sorry I didn't make it to the ride last Saturday, Retem. Doing it again this Sat?

oneeyedhobbit

Damn, if only Churchill had owned a u lock.

time bandit

hahah, this is why i <3 retem

Retem

that's right shoot those *******s in the guts let god judge em (sarcasm)

machine

i kill pedestrians on the daily.

Zachee

man New Yorkers' is crazy.

This is totally off topic and I'll probably get flamed, but I've been drunk on the street yelling at people 10 feet away from me and never been in any kind of altercation. My roommate was at summerfest pushing strangers into other strangers yelling 'Yo D***suck' and no one said a thing. Interesting difference in mentality.

bluej7

woah man dont be racist we all know how the funny craigslist crackhead story went down.

synapsemusic

Thanks. And I will.


But out of curiosity, how are you defending my right to live "that way"? Also please explain that "that way" is.

skinnyland

hey, anybody wanna see my Special Purpose?

dsh

The Art of War really wasn't that great. Everyone and their mom is like "I read the Art of War to help me get an edge in the competitive field of the Veterinary Service Industry", but I spend a couple days reading it on the crapper and was like "big whoop".

It's like 50 little poems saying:

"Know yourself and the enemy. If you only know yourself, you will lose half the time. If you only know the enemy, you will win half the time. If you know neither, you will always lose."

....uh, ok?

ianjk

Was hoping the ped would stomp doosher's bike.