DFTR

Hello,

I've been researching many of the posts here re. Bromptons vs. Tikits vs. Dahon which have been going on for the past 2-3 years. I've gotten a lot of info, but wanted to get some additional advice. I also wonder if things have changed/improved recently.

Although, I'm asking about a Brompton, I was very close to ordering the Hyperfold Tikit, but found out that BF is out of the medium sized frames for the next 2-3 weeks and wanted to reconsider my decision. I had the chance to testride a tikit locally and like the feel and ride of the bike in general. My reservations are mainly centered on the folded bike. It looks easy to roll around like in this video in the grocery store,
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RSSgk...rom=PL&index=6

but I found it very awkward to balance. Also the Tikit now has a brace on it to prevent cracks which makes it harder to hold onto the handle (especially if you're left handed). I had asked them if they could put it on the right side but w/out luck. I suppose I could see it as a chance to work out my right arm, but it's going to be tough to wheel it around subway stations, shopping malls, work etc.

Looking around, I found this video of a Brompton which just struck me as great.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6bkro...BF907&index=53

Is this truly that easy to move the bike around folded w/ one hand?
Say you're wheeling it around to your table at a restaurant, can you just drop the seat post and you're neatly folded?

My concern regarding the Brompton from various posts on this board: it's not good for hills, has poor brakes, the rear wheel is very difficult to remove in case of a flat, has propietary parts which make repairs difficult in the U.S.

I'm not concerned about the less aero upright position of the Brompton as I would intentionally get the medium sized Tikit to provide the same fit. I also have looked at the gear ranges and the weight of the Brompton 6ML and it seems pretty close to the Tikit. Also I've heard that Brompton's brakes have been improved w/ their recent models? Alas there is no test ride available.

I am 5'11", 190lbs. I plan to mainly ride for local errands around 5-6 miles. Most of this riding will be along highways w/ a nice shoulder w/ 10-12% slopes so getting up the hills and having braking power will be key. Why do I want a silly folding bike? Because my previous bike was stolen and I want to keep the bike w/ me. The Tikit also didn't seem any more awkward than my previous bike. I want to also take a bike when I go on vacation by plane next year (Tucson, Chicago) to continue riding.

I know these type of posts come up often, but I really appreciate any advice I can get. I'm hoping to be persuaded that the Brompton is really great and can handle this kind of riding... or that the Tikit isn't such a pain to lug around in a store/subway?

bhkyte

At 5 foot 11 you will really need the extending ( or telescopic) seatpost on a Brompton IMO,which makes the fold a bit less compact.

The Brompton brakes are fine, as long as you don't get a really old one. Look for fibrix pads, dual pivot and tefon cables. I feel it will brake about the same as the tikit. The tikit is faster and may fit you better as the Brompton suits people bellow 5 foot 9 best. If you are considering the Brompton make sure you get a test ride as not every one gets on with the riding postion or finds it big enought. The brompton will climb fine if you get the gearing right. You can always add a Steven Perry front mech for more lower gears if you need them.

So summary brakes on Brompton are fine, or can be upgraded if not, it will climb OK, best with striaght bars however for climbing. You are likely to find the tikit gives the best riding postion and is quicker but it lacks the Bromptons folding handling and some other options for rolling,front bag ect.

Therefore if you want to get a Brompton for your usage it will be fine, or can be made so.

Also worth considering the Mezzo D4 or D9, as it has most of the advantagers of the Brompton, but the standard seat post will fit you fine, and in addition the forward reach of the bars,and the bar height can be adjusted. The D10 is pricey, but has a rear V brake over all the bikes mentioned. The Mezzo range is not quite as convenient in some ways, but many including myself prefer its ride over the Brompton.

I would feel the Brompton requires a rest ride more than a tikit does before ordering.

ddez

Im 6 foot tall and fits very well with s-type bars.I have my saddle rails in top position in pentaclip and also moved pentaclip right to the very top of post,those two changes can gain you around 1.5 inches.Any taller and i think then you would need extended post.Depends on inseam i guess,mines 34 inches so i need 30 inches from center of bottom bracket to top of seat which i just get.Inseam times .883 gets you the distance you need roughly from bb.to top of saddle.This is the way most custom builders fit you for touring bikes anyhow.Works for me.Cheers.

DFTR

Hi, thank you both for the quick replies. The title of my post BTW is incorrect in that I meant S-type bars (flat/sporty) as you ride ddez.

Unfortunately, there are no Brompton dealers in Texas so testing a bike is hard. Let me verify again though that the video of the subway accurately reflects how easy/effortless it is to trolley the bike around?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6bkro...BF907&index=53
The BikeFriday shopping version looked easy but was different in person. They also didn't demonstrate using a bike w/ brace around the handle.

I had not heard of Mezzo, but their bikes look neat. In the U.S. it looks like Marin Bikes is the distributor? There are a few stores that are dealers for Marin, but I'll ask them whether they carry the D10. The only online stores I found that carry the Mezzo do not ship the bike.

Either way, I'd like to get a test run to make sure I don't have to suffer too much for the ride...

Or wait to see if Bike Friday can improve the design of their handle for rolling the folded bike...

bykerouac

Yes. Be sure to do the EZ wheel or inline skate modification. Also, pushing the Brommie by the extended seat/seatpost requires that you secure the folded rear wheel and top tube together with a velcro strap. Both are very easy to do. The advantage of the Brompton over the Tikit when moving it in a folded state is that the Brompton stand on its own as you wheel it, but with the Tikit you have to lift the back end wheelbarrow style. This may or may not be important to you.

We are about the same height by the way, and the standard seatpost suits me fine. i don;t know where bhykte got the idea that the Brompton is suitable only for people 5'9" and below.

bhkyte

I said best suited to people 5 foot 9 or below, not only............This is from personal experience. It also depends on if you want a low riding postion. If you do then a longer seatpost is more likely. If you sit upright it will probably be OK with a sprung saddle.
One more idea regards the need for an extended seatpost, is that changing to a sprung seat can give about 1 and 1/2 more inseam. I managed to just about get away with this set up with a standard brompton seatpost. I am 5 foot 10 +1/2 inches tall.

Still recomend test ride if tempted towards a Brompton. Can anyone local led him a bike to try?

Having said this, if you do not like it, the used demand for Bromptons means that you will not lose much money if you opt for it and do not like it.

+1 on the roller blade wheel upgrade to the transit wheels.

ddez

Ive never rolled mine .It looks in picture like he has the carrier rack and fenders on it,i dont have either,and it would make a difference.If you put bigger rollerblade wheels on i see know reason why it wouldnt do as video.Keep in mind as said that the seat pushed in locks everything up so would need strap to lock it up with seat up,so it doesnt fall apart.Ive seen them pulled with handle bar not folded seat down,keep in mind on video that it looked like real smooth marble type floors too, not rough bumpy stuff.Also if you order without fenders and rack the bike isnt quite as stable sitting folded or in parked position(back wheel folded only)
P.S. i use a B17 sprung saddle on mine with s-type bars and still get benefit of suspension even leaning forward more.Im thinking that guy wheeling that ticket around has gotta have some strong wrists especially when he puts groceries in one side pannier,makes it look easy.

Mr. Fly

If you want a folder Brompton to roll nicely, be sure to get one with the integrated rear rack (i.e., not the S6L or M6L). The integrated rear rack gives you four ball-bearing'ed wheels (if you get the E-Z wheels) with adequate ground clearance that rolls much better on many surfaces; the non-racked Brompton has three wheels and requires a smooth flat surface to roll acceptably well since it has minimal ground clearance and one of the three wheels is really a thick glorified O-ring.

I believe the Brompton in the video has a rear rack. Regardless, the video was shot at a subway station in Singapore that has very smooth and hard (likely granite) flooring...not the best surface for testing nominal rolling performance.

Also check out this other video from the same Youtube user.


From your posts, it appears that you intend to bring your prospective bike everywhere you go. For that, I believe that the Brompton, with its smaller fold (practically and more importantly visually), is a better choice. There's a Tikit on my bimodal commute, and compared to my Brompton, it is visually more bulky when folded.


It all depends on your inseam really. I'm about 5'10" but I have relatively short legs and a resultant PBH of 81cm. Even so, on my standard M3L unfolded for my use, the seat pillar is less than an inch from being fully extended.

In addition, the type of saddle used will also affect overall seat height. For example, the stock plastic saddle is quite tall (similar to a non-suspended Brooks) so if you change that to something like a Selle Italia Flite, you will loose a bit of seat height.

DFTR

Thanks for the advice. Yes, I absolutely plan to bring the folding bike w/ me everywhere (inside stores, cafes, walking around malls etc.)

Anyways, if anyone knows someone in the Austin area willing to allow atest ride, I'll happily buy them coffee or lunch. Let me know.

folder fanatic

I thought you might like to see this photo as you are interested in rolling folding bikes around alot. It is of a man wheeling around his Brompton loaded down with a large front bag still attached to the luggage block (I believe to me it is very similar way a tikit is wheeled about with the packages placed in it's own bag too). It is folded completely and wheeled around with it's stem & handlebars extended out and resting on the rear rack and all 4 small wheels on the frame and rack.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Brompushjeh.JPG

feijai

Brompton's size is convenient. And I think that on hard floors (tile say) it's a much better roller than the tikit -- though it's awful once you're outside, just like rolling luggage. Anyway, one thing you should consider: folding speed does matter (a lot).

If you're going to take your bike everywhere, you're going to fold it, and unfold it, A LOT. Long folds become cumbersome and tiresome. My Dahons are slow enough that I find I never fold them any more except to put in the car or whatnot: they often get locked up outside places. Generally Bromptons fold even more slowly than Dahons. But the tikit folds so quickly, and more importantly it *unfolds* so quickly, that it's never had a lock. I take it inside everywhere.

bhkyte

+1 Folding speed is important if you use it alot. I try and avoid folding my Dahon, but my Mezzo gets folded every use and put in to a small alcove. This is much faster than finding the key to the shed. I live in York in the UK and frequenty take the Mezzo into town and fold it to go in every shop. I would find this a real pain with my Dahon. The Mezzo is quicker in this respect ,but it does not half fold as well a the Brompton. The front bag is a real boom on the Brompton for this. Although I have the same Bag fitted to my Dahon.

If you really want folded speed and convience a Diblasi R22,or R4 is unbeatable as long as you dont have to carry it up steps, as its heavy (13KG). Instant, fool proof folding and bag can be left on rack, Bomb proof design almost as small as a Brompton length wise, but smaller width ways.

All things considered it sounds like you want a Brompton if it fits you.

chagzuki

Depends how your Dahon is set up, I can fold and unfold mine in about 6 seconds. However, it's cumbersome to roll so I don't really take it into shops.

bhkyte

Good point.

Yes if you change the stem set up its fine.

Sorry this was abit of a ramble

bykerouac

You can fold the Brompton in around 10 seconds if you are used to it. It is quite easy to fold and far from being cumbersome and tiresome. If you plan to roll your Brompton a lot in its folded state, junk the original rollers and do the inline skate wheel modification. I use 100mm wheels and it rolls great even on rough sidewalks.

Mybilly

Those skate wheels modification look great. Does it "hit" your heels when pedalling? The original EZ-wheels are thinner. Where do you get those nice "alloy-wheel" like skating wheels?

Thanks

gringo_gus

"PDR" has put some good reviews of the brompton S type on here. He has a lightweight one, but if you search through the forums using his name you might find some useful info.

bhkyte

Speaking about this, if you look for skate wheels with aluminium "cores", there are a few about.

feijai

[sigh]

People always say this stuff. But I don't think it represents real use by typical people. In general I think it's fair to say that DFTR will find the tikit (and better Dahons) to fold *much* faster than a Brompton.

DFTR, if you're 5'11", you may also have some concerns about reach on the Brompton, which has an unusually short effective top tube. The Brompton will impart a strongly upright riding position on you which you may not find to be efficient or comfortable. Your option is to get an S-type and lower the stem by quite a bit, which will give you some more reach sort of. But when I've tried it I found it had to be low enough as to feel dangerous to ride.

Finally if there are no Brompton dealers in your area, that should clinch it: do not get a Brompton. It's got a lot of custom parts and a very limited distribution channel in the US. If a part goes, you're going to be stuck.

If you're looking at higher-end, you should probably instead consider between a Tikit and a high-end Dahon.

vmaniqui

+1. totally agree with feijai. brompton is over rated i would say (just my opinion).

bhkyte

+1

More like 25 seconds in real life, my experience of regular Brompton use.
Yes, I can unfold my Mezzo in sub 10 secounds. But in real life I check the brake cables and saddle height for another 10 secounds after it unfolds. I have compaired several folders for train use and found the Brompton faster than a Downtube and Dahon Curve ,but alot slower in use than a DIblasi( by a long way), Giatex, Dawooe, and Mezzo. But some people find the Brompton fold excellent. It is easy to do on the Brompton, it requires less learning and is reasonably fool proof.

I was able to unfold the Diblasi as I walked along the platform!

bykerouac

No, there is absolutely no heel strike with these huge skate wheels. What happens is that your heel hits the side of the wheel which just turns and guides your feet forward, not snagging it. I snagged these off Ebay, but there is a wide variety of these inline skate wheels available online. Check the specialty stores specializing in skating.

bykerouac

Sigh? How about laying off the condescending attitude, bro. It seems that you are like this whenever there is a Brompton-Tikit discussion. There is no need for your stance as I would like to believe that we are all folder friends here.

Anyway, there is no doubt that the Tikit folds in record time and is pretty amazing in that regard. However the folded size and package leaves much to be desired, more so when compared to a folded Brompton. And folding is is not 'tiresome and cumbersome' as you implied. Maybe perhaps so if you fiddled with a Brompton for a moment or two, but trust me when you are used to it (and have used the Brompton extensively) you will find that it is very easy to fold/unfold. How long have you had a Brompton anyway?

I really can't understand why some people feel the need to bash another folder that differs from their choice.

feijai

Okay, I was a little jackassy there. But then...

Much more than you think, and easily long enough to know exactly how long it takes to fold (and unfold) a Brompton. And long enough to know jackass ad hominem when I see it.

Look, it's one thing to tout the advantages of a bike over another: while it's quite another thing to make claims that are really only valid for power-users, if at all. It's sort of like watching linux boosters explain that it's "just as easy" to, say, unmount a firewire drive as on a Mac ("just do a sudo umount /mnt/dev on your device -- I can do that just as fast as a Mac user can drag his icon into the trash"). Right.

We have the same power-user claims here as well: the Brompton folds plenty fast. Dahons roll great while folded -- look at my video! The tikit can be used for shopping just as easily as a Brompton. There are plenty of advantages to these bikes: why can't we stick to stating established advantages?

DFTR

Thanks for all the help again. Still haven't been able to track down anyone w/ a Brompton locally. One guy on the Brompton talk list had one but sold it after he got married of all things. He was 5'8" and managed the local terrain. The impression I get is that the fold is longer, but Brompton owners really like folding the bike b/c the end result is so neat.

I'm going to see if I can find a way to vacation in New York and stop by Bfold to give it a try. If I like it, hell I could even fly w/ it on the way back It may be November by then so hopefully it won't be too cold there! There's only so much you can get from the internet, at some point, it comes down to the actual ride.