Postexercise anabolic response to protein
#26
just another gosling
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Everett, WA
Posts: 19,618
Bikes: CoMo Speedster 2003, Trek 5200, CAAD 9, Fred 2004
Mentioned: 115 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3919 Post(s)
Liked 1,982 Times
in
1,414 Posts
Ha! "Pencil-neck geek" was my nickname, given to me by my star athlete (football, baseball, track & field, wrestling) big brother. Ah, memories.
He's dead now, I'm not yet. My neck is still pencil-shaped, and strangers still yell out, "OMG, eat a sandwich!!!" I'm still riding pretty well, so whatever. Same height and weight as Sepp Kuss, 2.2 times the age, about half the power:
Obligatory thread content: I will get to the gym eventually (and eat more protein, I guess), after Mrs tm finishes her chemo rounds. I don't want to bring home any bugs.
He's dead now, I'm not yet. My neck is still pencil-shaped, and strangers still yell out, "OMG, eat a sandwich!!!" I'm still riding pretty well, so whatever. Same height and weight as Sepp Kuss, 2.2 times the age, about half the power:
Obligatory thread content: I will get to the gym eventually (and eat more protein, I guess), after Mrs tm finishes her chemo rounds. I don't want to bring home any bugs.
__________________
Results matter
Results matter
#27
climber has-been
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Palo Alto, CA
Posts: 7,284
Bikes: Scott Addict R1, Felt Z1
Mentioned: 10 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3584 Post(s)
Liked 3,766 Times
in
1,876 Posts
21-inch quads, barely above average for an old guy. Legs are kind of long (49% of height), but not that long (average is 45%).
So a normal-ish pencil-neck geek:
Pencil-neck in the Cycology jersey
Likes For terrymorse:
#28
Full Member
as far as i'm aware, the concept of protein consumption post exercise, being able to 'last' a long time (i.e., if you consume more than X grams it gets excreted out - which is incorrect) has been available for a long time, i can't recall exactly when i started recommending this to my athlete and i don't recall there being any evidence of a cap at 25g for decades. that said the concept of taking 100g post exercise, is novel to me.
FWIW, those who are feeling underrecovered post strength training, i find that lifting heavy (near max) with minimal reps has little negative effect on me. for the majority of athletes i coach (ages range from 17 to 72) i usually suggest bike intervals in the morning and strength work in the afternoon. i found that significantly upping my total daily protein intake had a positive effect on my recovery.
FWIW, those who are feeling underrecovered post strength training, i find that lifting heavy (near max) with minimal reps has little negative effect on me. for the majority of athletes i coach (ages range from 17 to 72) i usually suggest bike intervals in the morning and strength work in the afternoon. i found that significantly upping my total daily protein intake had a positive effect on my recovery.
Likes For Ric Stern:
#29
• —
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: Land of Pleasant Living
Posts: 12,319
Bikes: Shmikes
Mentioned: 59 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 10223 Post(s)
Liked 5,947 Times
in
3,204 Posts
Ha! "Pencil-neck geek" was my nickname, given to me by my star athlete (football, baseball, track & field, wrestling) big brother. Ah, memories.
He's dead now, I'm not yet. My neck is still pencil-shaped, and strangers still yell out, "OMG, eat a sandwich!!!" I'm still riding pretty well, so whatever. Same height and weight as Sepp Kuss, 2.2 times the age, about half the power:
Obligatory thread content: I will get to the gym eventually (and eat more protein, I guess), after Mrs tm finishes her chemo rounds. I don't want to bring home any bugs.
He's dead now, I'm not yet. My neck is still pencil-shaped, and strangers still yell out, "OMG, eat a sandwich!!!" I'm still riding pretty well, so whatever. Same height and weight as Sepp Kuss, 2.2 times the age, about half the power:
Obligatory thread content: I will get to the gym eventually (and eat more protein, I guess), after Mrs tm finishes her chemo rounds. I don't want to bring home any bugs.
Yeah, you got the roadie bod thing going. This is from last spring. I've managed to pack on a kilo since then, but I have another couple to go. Hope all goes well with Mrs. tm!
Photo credit, Michael Hyman
Likes For MoAlpha:
#30
Version 7.0
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: SoCal
Posts: 13,168
Bikes: Too Many
Mentioned: 297 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1363 Post(s)
Liked 2,527 Times
in
1,484 Posts
Great...posting pics. Here I am in my mid 60s doing a low key hill climb race - Montebello 6 miles long on the finishing 8% grade. It was really hot on the climb. I wanted to post a climbing NorCal pic to match Terry. I look about the same today. I eat a lot of protein (all meat) mostly later in the day. Eating more and eating more protein has helped both my wife and I in the gym and on the bike.
Likes For Hermes:
Likes For RChung:
#32
Version 7.0
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: SoCal
Posts: 13,168
Bikes: Too Many
Mentioned: 297 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1363 Post(s)
Liked 2,527 Times
in
1,484 Posts
#33
• —
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: Land of Pleasant Living
Posts: 12,319
Bikes: Shmikes
Mentioned: 59 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 10223 Post(s)
Liked 5,947 Times
in
3,204 Posts
#34
Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Portland, OR
Posts: 13,014
Bikes: (2) ti TiCycles, 2007 w/ triple and 2011 fixed, 1979 Peter Mooney, ~1983 Trek 420 now fixed and ~1973 Raleigh Carlton Competition gravel grinder
Mentioned: 131 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4882 Post(s)
Liked 4,048 Times
in
2,625 Posts
Ha! "Pencil-neck geek" was my nickname, given to me by my star athlete (football, baseball, track & field, wrestling) big brother. Ah, memories.
He's dead now, I'm not yet. My neck is still pencil-shaped, and strangers still yell out, "OMG, eat a sandwich!!!" I'm still riding pretty well, so whatever. Same height and weight as Sepp Kuss, 2.2 times the age, about half the power:
Obligatory thread content: I will get to the gym eventually (and eat more protein, I guess), after Mrs tm finishes her chemo rounds. I don't want to bring home any bugs.
He's dead now, I'm not yet. My neck is still pencil-shaped, and strangers still yell out, "OMG, eat a sandwich!!!" I'm still riding pretty well, so whatever. Same height and weight as Sepp Kuss, 2.2 times the age, about half the power:
Obligatory thread content: I will get to the gym eventually (and eat more protein, I guess), after Mrs tm finishes her chemo rounds. I don't want to bring home any bugs.
And off topic but goofy and fun. I spent some of my boatbuilding years making Wylie 34s. Never said this out loud but I had the thought many times "I build those Wylies with 34 arms and legs."
Likes For 79pmooney:
#35
Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Southern Maine
Posts: 8,946
Mentioned: 130 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 12206 Post(s)
Liked 1,506 Times
in
1,115 Posts
Thanks. I'm not just here trying to make out like this isn't a real issue. I actually am concerned about my own apparent muscle loss at my age of 65 yo. However I'm hoping that it's more due to my insufficient amount of exercise I'm getting for all of my body. Legs aren't a big issue since I do cycle. But my upper body is suffering badly. And I can't find the motivation to go to the gym regularly even though I frequently encourage others to do so.
Regardless of why I'm losing muscle, I do need to find some incentive to work out more.
I've done a few threads about resistance exercise in Pills and Ills.
Cycling doesn't do much for the posterior chain, or the core.
Likes For late:
#36
Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Southern Maine
Posts: 8,946
Mentioned: 130 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 12206 Post(s)
Liked 1,506 Times
in
1,115 Posts
At 70 with (I'm presuming) arthritic hands that were never powerful (got my mom's build, not my dad's that could twist off anything, no tools need) I can still open all the jars. Just need bigger and better tools! (I have moka coffee makers. I now grease the threads with olive oil every cup.)
I can fully relate! (With the pencil neck and the Kuss-like overall dimensions.) Except, again I got my mom's build with narrow shoulders. That I narrowed further ~1/4" at a time with each of 4 collar bone breaks. Had to wear jacket and tie for a half decade of schooling. Almost all my dress shirts were blue because I had a source for 15-34.
And off topic but goofy and fun. I spent some of my boatbuilding years making Wylie 34s. Never said this out loud but I had the thought many times "I build those Wylies with 34 arms and legs."
You have a bunch of small shoulder muscles. One old school exercise is to take light dumbells, hold them in front of your chest, then move about a foot at an upward angle. You'll feel the shoulder muscles working when you are doing it right. Small muscle, light weight, lots of reps. Eazy Peazey.
You do have big muscles below the small ones, delts and traps.
I have a ton of rubber bands and straps and such. I cut some of the bands (they look like a fan belt in your car) to make straps. Stand on one, bend over and grab low enough to get some tension, them make like you are pulling your pants up. Bend over just a tiny bit, and the range of motion goes a little past your pants. But it's not hard to generate a lot of resistance working your back effectively. It's also easy on the joints.
#37
just another gosling
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Everett, WA
Posts: 19,618
Bikes: CoMo Speedster 2003, Trek 5200, CAAD 9, Fred 2004
Mentioned: 115 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3919 Post(s)
Liked 1,982 Times
in
1,414 Posts
You can fix that, I'm 72, and I've been growing my shoulders (among other things)
You have a bunch of small shoulder muscles. One old school exercise is to take light dumbells, hold them in front of your chest, then move about a foot at an upward angle. You'll feel the shoulder muscles working when you are doing it right. Small muscle, light weight, lots of reps. Eazy Peazey.
You do have big muscles below the small ones, delts and traps.
I have a ton of rubber bands and straps and such. I cut some of the bands (they look like a fan belt in your car) to make straps. Stand on one, bend over and grab low enough to get some tension, them make like you are pulling your pants up. Bend over just a tiny bit, and the range of motion goes a little past your pants. But it's not hard to generate a lot of resistance working your back effectively. It's also easy on the joints.
You have a bunch of small shoulder muscles. One old school exercise is to take light dumbells, hold them in front of your chest, then move about a foot at an upward angle. You'll feel the shoulder muscles working when you are doing it right. Small muscle, light weight, lots of reps. Eazy Peazey.
You do have big muscles below the small ones, delts and traps.
I have a ton of rubber bands and straps and such. I cut some of the bands (they look like a fan belt in your car) to make straps. Stand on one, bend over and grab low enough to get some tension, them make like you are pulling your pants up. Bend over just a tiny bit, and the range of motion goes a little past your pants. But it's not hard to generate a lot of resistance working your back effectively. It's also easy on the joints.
__________________
Results matter
Results matter
#38
Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Portland, OR
Posts: 13,014
Bikes: (2) ti TiCycles, 2007 w/ triple and 2011 fixed, 1979 Peter Mooney, ~1983 Trek 420 now fixed and ~1973 Raleigh Carlton Competition gravel grinder
Mentioned: 131 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4882 Post(s)
Liked 4,048 Times
in
2,625 Posts
You can fix that, I'm 72, and I've been growing my shoulders (among other things)
You have a bunch of small shoulder muscles. One old school exercise is to take light dumbells, hold them in front of your chest, then move about a foot at an upward angle. You'll feel the shoulder muscles working when you are doing it right. Small muscle, light weight, lots of reps. Eazy Peazey.
You do have big muscles below the small ones, delts and traps.
I have a ton of rubber bands and straps and such. I cut some of the bands (they look like a fan belt in your car) to make straps. Stand on one, bend over and grab low enough to get some tension, them make like you are pulling your pants up. Bend over just a tiny bit, and the range of motion goes a little past your pants. But it's not hard to generate a lot of resistance working your back effectively. It's also easy on the joints.
You have a bunch of small shoulder muscles. One old school exercise is to take light dumbells, hold them in front of your chest, then move about a foot at an upward angle. You'll feel the shoulder muscles working when you are doing it right. Small muscle, light weight, lots of reps. Eazy Peazey.
You do have big muscles below the small ones, delts and traps.
I have a ton of rubber bands and straps and such. I cut some of the bands (they look like a fan belt in your car) to make straps. Stand on one, bend over and grab low enough to get some tension, them make like you are pulling your pants up. Bend over just a tiny bit, and the range of motion goes a little past your pants. But it's not hard to generate a lot of resistance working your back effectively. It's also easy on the joints.
#39
Me duelen las nalgas
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: Texas
Posts: 13,513
Bikes: Centurion Ironman, Trek 5900, Univega Via Carisma, Globe Carmel
Mentioned: 199 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4560 Post(s)
Liked 2,804 Times
in
1,801 Posts
The study looks at the effect of a single meal of protein after exercise on amino acid levels in blood and incorporation into muscle. The big surprises are that this effect is a lot larger with a 100g meal than a 25 g meal (which was thought to be near the limit for stimulating muscle protein synthesis) and that the effect can lasts longer with more protein and can last for at least 12 hours. As a bit of background, the amino acids from that meal aren't just going to the muscle and being turned into protein, they're turning on a cascade of biochemical signals that change protein metabolism for a long time.
Nevertheless, this can't be the whole story or guys like me who are trying to make gains in the weight room and maybe overdoing the protein a little bit would look like the Incredible Hulk instead of pencil-necked geeks.
Nevertheless, this can't be the whole story or guys like me who are trying to make gains in the weight room and maybe overdoing the protein a little bit would look like the Incredible Hulk instead of pencil-necked geeks.
But I don't have the kind of physique that bulks up. Never did as a youngster either. I boxed amateur from 132-155 at 1/4" shy of 6', and was always a stringbean. I'm still only 165, and that's heavy for me now, the most I've weighed since 2014. But I've had to cut way back on cycling and jogging due to injuries.
Eh, maybe I should take up lifting. Start on some brand new exercise related injuries.
#40
Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2023
Location: NorCal
Posts: 629
Bikes: Santa Cruz Blur 4 TR, Canyon Endurace cf sl, Canyon Ultimate cf slx, Canyon Strive enduro, Canyon Grizl sl8
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 262 Post(s)
Liked 1,117 Times
in
427 Posts
Gym time for me is all about increasing endurance, rather than just increasing strength. I put on weight very easily(both fat and muscle mass,) so I have to work at staying light for cycling. I can come off the couch and hold 1000 watts in a sprint, but having a decent w/kg FTP is a constant struggle for me.
Last edited by Sierra_rider; 02-05-24 at 01:11 AM.
#41
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2021
Posts: 8,818
Mentioned: 16 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4605 Post(s)
Liked 5,146 Times
in
3,180 Posts
Gym time for me is all about increasing endurance, rather than just increasing strength. I put on weight very easily(both fat and muscle mass,) so I have to work at staying light for cycling. I can come off the couch and hold 1000 watts in a sprint, but having a decent w/kg FTP is a constant struggle for me.
#42
• —
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: Land of Pleasant Living
Posts: 12,319
Bikes: Shmikes
Mentioned: 59 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 10223 Post(s)
Liked 5,947 Times
in
3,204 Posts
Doc, I'd like to suggest TRT for them gains, but after nearly two months I can't say I've noticed any difference. Although I was coming from a deficit so maybe it'll take longer at my age to notice any difference. Everyone else I know who's tried it say it was darned near miraculous. I'm starting to wonder if my vials are filled with just the oil base they use to keep it in suspension.
But I don't have the kind of physique that bulks up. Never did as a youngster either. I boxed amateur from 132-155 at 1/4" shy of 6', and was always a stringbean. I'm still only 165, and that's heavy for me now, the most I've weighed since 2014. But I've had to cut way back on cycling and jogging due to injuries.
Eh, maybe I should take up lifting. Start on some brand new exercise related injuries.
But I don't have the kind of physique that bulks up. Never did as a youngster either. I boxed amateur from 132-155 at 1/4" shy of 6', and was always a stringbean. I'm still only 165, and that's heavy for me now, the most I've weighed since 2014. But I've had to cut way back on cycling and jogging due to injuries.
Eh, maybe I should take up lifting. Start on some brand new exercise related injuries.
#43
Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2023
Location: NorCal
Posts: 629
Bikes: Santa Cruz Blur 4 TR, Canyon Endurace cf sl, Canyon Ultimate cf slx, Canyon Strive enduro, Canyon Grizl sl8
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 262 Post(s)
Liked 1,117 Times
in
427 Posts
Low volume, high weight...mostly squats, deadlifts, lunges, weighted box steps, as well as some other core work. The studies suggest that this increases time to exhaustion on the bike, this is what I meant by increased endurance...poorly worded on my part. I try to keep my volume low, as I put on muscle mass very easily. I guess that it's a good problem to have, but most of my events include a fair bit of climbing, so I'm trying to find the balance of power/weight.
Likes For Sierra_rider:
#44
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2020
Location: Zurich, Switzerland
Posts: 883
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 530 Post(s)
Liked 230 Times
in
161 Posts
The study looks at the effect of a single meal of protein after exercise on amino acid levels in blood and incorporation into muscle. The big surprises are that this effect is a lot larger with a 100g meal than a 25 g meal (which was thought to be near the limit for stimulating muscle protein synthesis) and that the effect can lasts longer with more protein and can last for at least 12 hours. As a bit of background, the amino acids from that meal aren't just going to the muscle and being turned into protein, they're turning on a cascade of biochemical signals that change protein metabolism for a long time.
Nevertheless, this can't be the whole story or guys like me who are trying to make gains in the weight room and maybe overdoing the protein a little bit would look like the Incredible Hulk instead of pencil-necked geeks.
Nevertheless, this can't be the whole story or guys like me who are trying to make gains in the weight room and maybe overdoing the protein a little bit would look like the Incredible Hulk instead of pencil-necked geeks.
I'm sure there is a genetic component to what happens with amino acids in muscles and how muscles grow. Just because you increase their amount, won't lead to higher muscle growth in everyone I would assume.
#45
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2020
Location: Zurich, Switzerland
Posts: 883
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 530 Post(s)
Liked 230 Times
in
161 Posts
Low volume, high weight...mostly squats, deadlifts, lunges, weighted box steps, as well as some other core work. The studies suggest that this increases time to exhaustion on the bike, this is what I meant by increased endurance...poorly worded on my part. I try to keep my volume low, as I put on muscle mass very easily. I guess that it's a good problem to have, but most of my events include a fair bit of climbing, so I'm trying to find the balance of power/weight.
#46
• —
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: Land of Pleasant Living
Posts: 12,319
Bikes: Shmikes
Mentioned: 59 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 10223 Post(s)
Liked 5,947 Times
in
3,204 Posts
But does a higher protein balance necessarily imply more muscle growth?
I'm sure there is a genetic component to what happens with amino acids in muscles and how muscles grow. Just because you increase their amount, won't lead to higher muscle growth in everyone I would assume.
I'm sure there is a genetic component to what happens with amino acids in muscles and how muscles grow. Just because you increase their amount, won't lead to higher muscle growth in everyone I would assume.
#47
Full Member
With all the athletes i work with, it's low reps and high weights in the gym. obviously, if you've never lifted before you don't want to start that way because the likelihood is you'll injure yourself (which you obviously don't want to do). So, in that instance i start with light weights and high reps. The evidence tends to show that lifting near maximal weights increases endurance and sprint powers
FWIW, I've increased my bone mineral density, increased my muscle mass, and lost 6 kg in weight. My 5-sec peak power has risen ~150 W and my FTP is up by ~ 10-15 W. These are *all-time* bests at 54 yrs old (55 next month), and my power data goes back to when i was 24 or 25 yrs old (i believe i have the largest collection of power data on a single person). Same weight as in my 20s (currently equal lightest). Earlier today i tapped out a 3-minute power PR (in the last 5 years -- i haven't checked back further than that yet). just about to start my 41st consecutive race season. currently my cycling streak is ~7.25 years.
Likes For Ric Stern:
#48
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2021
Posts: 8,818
Mentioned: 16 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4605 Post(s)
Liked 5,146 Times
in
3,180 Posts
Low volume, high weight...mostly squats, deadlifts, lunges, weighted box steps, as well as some other core work. The studies suggest that this increases time to exhaustion on the bike, this is what I meant by increased endurance...poorly worded on my part. I try to keep my volume low, as I put on muscle mass very easily. I guess that it's a good problem to have, but most of my events include a fair bit of climbing, so I'm trying to find the balance of power/weight.
#49
working on my sandal tan
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: CID
Posts: 22,640
Bikes: 1991 Bianchi Eros, 1964 Armstrong, 1988 Diamondback Ascent, 1988 Bianchi Premio, 1987 Bianchi Sport SX, 1980s Raleigh mixte (hers), All-City Space Horse (hers)
Mentioned: 98 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3873 Post(s)
Liked 2,574 Times
in
1,581 Posts
The big surprises are that this effect is a lot larger with a 100g meal than a 25 g meal (which was thought to be near the limit for stimulating muscle protein synthesis) and that the effect can lasts longer with more protein and can last for at least 12 hours. As a bit of background, the amino acids from that meal aren't just going to the muscle and being turned into protein, they're turning on a cascade of biochemical signals that change protein metabolism for a long time.
#50
• —
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: Land of Pleasant Living
Posts: 12,319
Bikes: Shmikes
Mentioned: 59 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 10223 Post(s)
Liked 5,947 Times
in
3,204 Posts
There is a persistent meathead myth that the body can only assimilate 20 (or 25 or 30, depending on who's repeating it) grams of protein from a meal, but there has never been a good basis for it to the best of my knowledge. Our bodies are not as stupid as we tend to imagine them, thankfully.
Likes For MoAlpha: