FBinNY 

Agreed.

Words have meaning. There's no judgement, moral or otherwise, in calling things what they are.

Moral judgement only comes into play when people arbitrarily redefine words to suit an agenda.

I don't care about what people ride in don't, but I do care that regulations are well considered and make sense according to the essential nature of bicycles and motorcycles.

Polaris OBark

I have a throttle on my DIY drop-bar mountain e-bike, but I had to move it out of the way so I could install a better dropper post lever. I can still reach it on the very rare occasions that I use it for 30 seconds.

This bike is slower than my road bike on all but the steepest of hills. I use it to commute to and from work on rural back-roads.

I've only used the throttle to get started on an inconvenient uphill. The distinction is completely arbitrary, to the point of being completely meaningless. I could disconnect it and I would still have the same bike, but why should I? It very occasionally comes in handy, and I paid for it along with the rest of the ebike kit.

Troul 

If you put a motor in a shopping cart, is it still OK to use in the store?

Trakhak

I put lots of things in shopping carts and then pay for them at the checkout.

Troul 

lol eye c watt oujj done they're

Pratt

The Cross New Hampshire Adventure Trail benefits from ATV riders smoothing it out.

JoeyBike

I recently moved from flatland to hill country, so my spare time activities have already shifted BUT i have changed my opinion of people on E-Bikes. An average or below average cyclist who wants to cycle in or near my new hometown (Greenville, SC) will almost certainly want some extra help on the hills. There are many motor assisted bikes on the local Rail-Trails, and I do not blame them.

On the plus side, e-bikes are giving me a better workout. On the Doodle Trail from Pickford, SC to Easley, SC there was a guy on a fat tire e-bike trying to overtake me for SEVEN MILES! On the uphills he would slowly gain on me but on the downhills I could create a huge gap. I guess that was due to his regenerative braking resistance slowing him down. No clue. I was thinking it was just a matter of time before he overtook me but I somehow managed those 7 hilly miles without bonking. I was on a Surley Lowside 1x1 with pretty big tires that I often run low pressure for comfort. I am certainly not interested in SPEED on that bike but I still managed. What a great workout that guy afforded me! I would never have pushed like that on my own. Too lazy.

Footnote: I can turn 130 cadence on the downhills without bouncing in the saddle. It's true!

PeteHski

Very few e-bikes have regen braking. Probably just slow rolling fat-bike tyres and aero.

I-Like-To-Bike

Or perhaps the other guy was just out for an enjoyable ride and not a workout, was not in a make-believe race, and was not concerned about the thrill of overtaking a random stranger on a bike trail.

JoeyBike

Yeaaaah....No

JoeyBike

They DO exist. This was exactly what was happening to the guy IMO. I had 7 miles of hills to observe him in my helmet mounted mirror. He gained ground on the uphills, lost ground on the downhills. So basically i tried to relax as much as I could without being overtaken on the uphills, then hammer the S#iT out of it on the downhills. He may have just been out on a pleasure ride for sure, but I did not give him the pleasure of passing me. And got a much better workout than if he wasn't behind me pushing me - known to him or not. I'm sure he wasn't "letting" me "win" an imaginary race either.



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PeteHski

I know they exist, but your chances of coming across a fat bike with regen braking are practically zero. It is far more likely that it just had a motor speed limiter. Not that it really matters.

work4bike

I came across this video on YT about the US changing ebike laws to more closely reflect the laws in the EU. I'm kind of skeptical it will happen soon, if at all, but it is the first time of hearing about this proposed change. However, if they do make the changes I guess that'll be good news for you MUP cyclists...I'll still stick to the roads, regardless

Here is a link I think he was referring to (in the video), but I didn't read the whole thing, since I'm not an ebiker. https://www.regulations.gov/document...2024-0008-0001

_ForceD_

This linked article in today’s Providence (RI) Journal 6/8/2024. I’m glad to see this. But I think there should be a forth class that includes “any” electric bike that goes over ## speed. People modify them, and I’ve been passed on MUPs by e-bikes, with pedals, going much faster than the 28 mph mentioned for the class 3 e-bikes. But, I guess the new law allows only class 1 on the MUPs so that’s good. Also, according to the article, this is for “state bike paths and trails.” I think it should include all bike paths (I know of some that are not state-owned/controlled). And should also include roadways with shoulders for bicycling (i.e. with “sharrows”).

https://tinyurl.com/246p4449

Dan

freeranger

The local MUP has some confusing regulations. Most e-bike riders are not crazy riders, so not a big problem usually. However, the MUP has a sign posted--no motorized vehicles. Does an e-bike not have an electric MOTOR, which makes it a motorized vehicle? I asked one of the MUP administrators (one of the very few times I've ever seen one) about it. The reply was they do not consider electric motors as "motors". And though it isn't posted, only Class 1 e-bikes are supposedly allowed, though the great majority I've seen are not Class 1, most can motor along without pedaling. Regulations mean nothing when they are not enforced. It isn't a problem there yet, but school is out now for the summer, so guess I'll see how it goes.

vol

NYPD cracks down on out-of-control mopeds terrorizing NYC

JoeyBike

Nobody could find a more stereotypical E-Bike representative than the guy in that video.

I like the idea of no throttle being the distinction between "bike" and "motorcycle".

work4bike

The hell with the e-bikes...this is why I don't do MUPs

bikemig 

My concern with e bikes on MUPs is that people are riding faster than their skill set warrants.

CAT7RDR

Pretty much gave up MUPS in SoCal because of several types of motorized vehicles not just e-bikes being on the trails.
I find it safer to ride on my local roads in non-commercial zones.

mobilemail

From all the comments I've read, and news articles I've seen from different locations, it's obvious that experience varies greatly with location. The nearest trail system to me connects a series of small towns, which likely has a whole different rider set than more urban areas. I mostly see older couples on ebikes, sometimes RV travellers, who are just having a good time and aren't a threat to anybody. So while I understand why folks in some areas may have a jaded perspective, I hope we can refrain from casting too wide a net on the bikes/ebikes debate. Interestingly, I remember when mountain bikes were introduced to the masses and the polarity whether they would save or ruin the sport. It's still all about the attitude of people that make or break the sport, not the technology.

bruce19

I live in CT. It is my understanding that motorized vehicles are not permitted on Rail-Trails. I don't know the exact wording of the regulations so I don''t know how/if it affects electric vehicles.

shelbyfv

^^^^That is a simple and rational rule. Motor/ No Motor. Simple.

FBinNY 

Generally I agree, however I have no issue treating low power pedal assist bikes as bicycles. There are various barriers that keep people off bikes, these include terrain, age, physical limitations, or just plain out-of-shapeness. I grew up cycling through the 2nd hilliest city in the USA, and know how having to climb hills is super discouraging to cyclists. An assist motor to provide situational boost as needed can help overcome these barriers, and get more people riding.

To be clear, I'm referring to designs that help someone who is mainly providing human power, so the design has to limit itself to that. Things like battery capacity, lack of a throttle, motor wattage limits, power phaseout at 15-20mph, etc. need to be consistent with the goal.

Otherwise ANY bicycle that can operate on motor power alone, or can use motor assist to achieve speeds beyond typical bike speeds is a motorcycle.

shelbyfv

I don't worry much about "barriers." Some people can do an activity, some can't. There's a bunch of stuff I can't do and at some point I won't be able to ride a bike. An e-motor that puts out say 75W, half of what a normal casual cyclist would generate, is about the max that could be called "assist" IMO. A case could be made for allowing those in areas where motors are otherwise prohibited. Maybe with a handicap placard like for parking. Anyway, I'm just nattering. I don't ride MUPs and nobody who makes these decisions ever asks me.