Wooden rims?
#51
Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Mich
Posts: 7,873
Bikes: RSO E-tire dropper fixie brifter
Liked 3,307 Times
in
2,098 Posts
Is the wheel builder's name Woody or Chuck? AFAF
__________________
-YMMV
-YMMV
#52
Klaatu..Verata..Necktie?
Join Date: May 2007
Location: SF Bay Area
Posts: 19,377
Bikes: Litespeed Ultimate, Ultegra; Canyon Endurace, 105; Battaglin MAX, Chorus; Bianchi 928 Veloce; Ritchey Road Logic, Dura Ace; Cannondale R500 RX100; Schwinn Circuit, Sante; Lotus Supreme, Dura Ace
Liked 13,226 Times
in
6,792 Posts
I am not an engineer, apart from being a genetic engineer, so I speak from limited experience and knowledge. But it seems to me that there are a couple points.
First, in a sense, there is no WOOD. Rather, there are WOODS - different species, different characteristics. If you think of WOOD as a single entity, you might conclude that it can't be made into, for example, bows. You can't make a bow out of Pine, at least not of a reasonable length and poundage, but you can make a ~6 foot longbow out of Yew that could pull up to 200#. Why? Because unlike Pine, Yew is strong in tension and compression. Also, the density of wood is as low as 8 lb/ft^3 to 88 lb/ft^3, so wood is anywhere from 1/20 as dense as aluminum to 1/2.
Second, you would not build a wooden rim like an aluminum rim. Aluminum works well as a thin-walled tube shape, whereas wood works as a solid. That's how they make the rims. It's also how arrows are made out of those two materials. A solid aluminum rim wouldn't work, and neither would a hollow wooden rim. So, sure, maybe wood has lower tensile strength than aluminum but it's also much less dense, so you can use more of it.
Wood was used successfully for decades to make rims for racing bicycles, riding on much worse roads. It works. Aluminum works better, so we use that these days.
First, in a sense, there is no WOOD. Rather, there are WOODS - different species, different characteristics. If you think of WOOD as a single entity, you might conclude that it can't be made into, for example, bows. You can't make a bow out of Pine, at least not of a reasonable length and poundage, but you can make a ~6 foot longbow out of Yew that could pull up to 200#. Why? Because unlike Pine, Yew is strong in tension and compression. Also, the density of wood is as low as 8 lb/ft^3 to 88 lb/ft^3, so wood is anywhere from 1/20 as dense as aluminum to 1/2.
Second, you would not build a wooden rim like an aluminum rim. Aluminum works well as a thin-walled tube shape, whereas wood works as a solid. That's how they make the rims. It's also how arrows are made out of those two materials. A solid aluminum rim wouldn't work, and neither would a hollow wooden rim. So, sure, maybe wood has lower tensile strength than aluminum but it's also much less dense, so you can use more of it.
Wood was used successfully for decades to make rims for racing bicycles, riding on much worse roads. It works. Aluminum works better, so we use that these days.
__________________
"Don't take life so serious-it ain't nohow permanent."
"Everybody's gotta be somewhere." - Eccles
"Don't take life so serious-it ain't nohow permanent."
"Everybody's gotta be somewhere." - Eccles
Likes For genejockey:
#53
Senior Member
"There are several rims on offer, and weight per single rim varies between 350–450 grams each"
And apparently beech wood is where the sweet spot between weight and strength meet for this application.
https://roadbikeaction.com/rolling-on-wheels-of-wood
And apparently beech wood is where the sweet spot between weight and strength meet for this application.
https://roadbikeaction.com/rolling-on-wheels-of-wood
Point being yeah if you want to be different or want a project knock yourself out, but IMO these offer NOTHING in terms of value, weight, aero, and frankly are so niche this is more theoretical type of wheel than an actual practical one
Last edited by Jrasero; 05-17-24 at 01:55 PM.
#54
Senior Member
Says someone who knows little about high quality wood/epoxy design and construction. Light, strong and long lasting sailboat hulls, masts, etc. have been made out of wood and raced for speed records and around the world. The skilled makers of wood sailboat spars would have little trouble making strong, light wood rims. Little excess resin and that would get squeezed out in the laminating process.
#55
Junior Member
Thread Starter
005 euro, qty=2 rim tapes
250 euro, pair of Campagnolo C-Records hubs/8speed, 1994, NOS
020 euro, 1 kit, couple of brake cork pads, for caliper rim-brakes
160 euro, assembly service for two wheels, including qty=72 Sapim Race spokes, 36 on each wheel
060 euro, pair of Schwalbe hockless TSS tires
025 euro, pair of inner tubes
#56
climber has-been
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Palo Alto, CA
Posts: 7,540
Bikes: Scott Addict R1, Felt Z1
Liked 4,080 Times
in
2,012 Posts
2. Racing catamarans don’t have “insane weight”.
3. Carbon fiber is used extensively on racing boats. The limiting factor for CF usually is cost, otherwise it would be more common.
#57
Over the hill
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Posts: 24,426
Bikes: Giant Defy, Giant Revolt
Liked 1,265 Times
in
718 Posts
I mean those are pretty misleading numbers because the rims are 350g-450g each which is a pretty big difference but let's say it;s 375g each and 75 for nipples. Decent Sapim spokes are 220 grams 20+24 spokes and nipples. A DT Swiss 240 front and rear hub w/ XDR w/ centerlock is 399g. Tape is another 30g Is 1474g which I guess is good and is ub there with some of the lighter aluminum wheels albeit much shallower rim depth, but $440 for the wheels, $75 for the spokes, $15 for the nipples, $15 for tape, $670 for the front and rear hubs. So assuming someone knows how to build a wheelset that is $1215 without labor for a pair of decently light but very shallow wooden rims. Or basically for the same price at $259 per wheel you can buy a Light Bicycle Falcon pro Rim AR25 for $259 at 250g each. Or even better for $1200 you basically can buy any premium wheelset from Elitewheels, Winspace, 9Velo, Superteam, or whatever $1200 or less carbon fiber, ceramic bearing, and even carbon spoke wheelset.
Point being yeah if you want to be different or want a project knock yourself out, but IMO these offer NOTHING in terms of value, weight, aero, and frankly are so niche this is more theoretical type of wheel than an actual practical one
Point being yeah if you want to be different or want a project knock yourself out, but IMO these offer NOTHING in terms of value, weight, aero, and frankly are so niche this is more theoretical type of wheel than an actual practical one
__________________
It's like riding a bicycle
It's like riding a bicycle
#59
dot dash
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: Land of Pleasant Living
Posts: 12,576
Bikes: Shmikes
Liked 6,176 Times
in
3,323 Posts
CFRP has been standard for racing sailboat hulls and rigs, large and small, for decades and is increasingly common in high-end powerboats. It is far superior to the glass composites and aluminum it replaced.
Likes For MoAlpha:
#60
dot dash
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: Land of Pleasant Living
Posts: 12,576
Bikes: Shmikes
Liked 6,176 Times
in
3,323 Posts
Says someone who knows little about high quality wood/epoxy design and construction. Light, strong and long lasting sailboat hulls, masts, etc. have been made out of wood and raced for speed records and around the world. The skilled makers of wood sailboat spars would have little trouble making strong, light wood rims. Little excess resin and that would get squeezed out in the laminating process.
#61
Senior Member
The range is because different wooden rims have different specs, just like aluminum or carbon rims. Of course it’s gonna cost a lot, they’re novelty or boutique items. Like I said before, I’d only do it on a vintage bike. The point is that claiming they’re much heavier is false.
Last edited by Jrasero; 05-17-24 at 03:19 PM.
#62
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 6,502
Bikes: Colnago, Van Dessel, Factor, Cervelo, Ritchey
Liked 8,313 Times
in
3,301 Posts
They make trees out of wood, so it must be a good material for bike wheels.
Likes For tomato coupe:
#63
Senior Member
Sailboats also have this thing called wind which is free energy and us cyclists have legs. Your point is mute
#64
Senior Member
160 euro, pair of woody Sanremo rims + nibble kit
005 euro, qty=2 rim tapes
250 euro, pair of Campagnolo C-Records hubs/8speed, 1994, NOS
020 euro, 1 kit, couple of brake cork pads, for caliper rim-brakes
160 euro, assembly service for two wheels, including qty=72 Sapim Race spokes, 36 on each wheel
060 euro, pair of Schwalbe hockless TSS tires
025 euro, pair of inner tubes
005 euro, qty=2 rim tapes
250 euro, pair of Campagnolo C-Records hubs/8speed, 1994, NOS
020 euro, 1 kit, couple of brake cork pads, for caliper rim-brakes
160 euro, assembly service for two wheels, including qty=72 Sapim Race spokes, 36 on each wheel
060 euro, pair of Schwalbe hockless TSS tires
025 euro, pair of inner tubes
#65
climber has-been
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Palo Alto, CA
Posts: 7,540
Bikes: Scott Addict R1, Felt Z1
Liked 4,080 Times
in
2,012 Posts
Wrong, per the evidence posted by me above.
#66
Klaatu..Verata..Necktie?
Join Date: May 2007
Location: SF Bay Area
Posts: 19,377
Bikes: Litespeed Ultimate, Ultegra; Canyon Endurace, 105; Battaglin MAX, Chorus; Bianchi 928 Veloce; Ritchey Road Logic, Dura Ace; Cannondale R500 RX100; Schwinn Circuit, Sante; Lotus Supreme, Dura Ace
Liked 13,226 Times
in
6,792 Posts
So that's roughly 680 euro or $740 for a non modern set of wheels when in comparison you can by a direct to consumer Chinese set of modern wheels in the 9Velo LV35 V2 at 1209 for $800 or buy even a lower end Superteam or Elitewheels for $600 or less. I mean do whatever you want but your build besides having some novel wheelset and it being able to accommodate a non modern bike is vastly inferior. The point is not if wooden wheels can be made but is it worth it? And the answer to that is a resounding no
__________________
"Don't take life so serious-it ain't nohow permanent."
"Everybody's gotta be somewhere." - Eccles
"Don't take life so serious-it ain't nohow permanent."
"Everybody's gotta be somewhere." - Eccles
Likes For genejockey:
#67
Senior Member
Only on bike forums can you get a 3 page thread discussing wooden bicycle rims and actually have people defending them! I am continually surprised how a forum discussing cycling can be so completely disconnected to the actual cycling community. What an absolute majority of sporting cyclists find normal and a part of cycling becomes some marketing bs to extort money from uninformed fools according to the usual suspects. It’s like looking into some alternative reality and I can’t look away. It’s my guilty pleasure I must say.
#68
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 6,502
Bikes: Colnago, Van Dessel, Factor, Cervelo, Ritchey
Liked 8,313 Times
in
3,301 Posts
Only on bike forums can you get a 3 page thread discussing wooden bicycle rims and actually have people defending them! I am continually surprised how a forum discussing cycling can be so completely disconnected to the actual cycling community. What an absolute majority of sporting cyclists find normal and a part of cycling becomes some marketing bs to extort money from uninformed fools according to the usual suspects. It’s like looking into some alternative reality and I can’t look away. It’s my guilty pleasure I must say.
Likes For tomato coupe:
#69
Only on bike forums can you get a 3 page thread discussing wooden bicycle rims and actually have people defending them! I am continually surprised how a forum discussing cycling can be so completely disconnected to the actual cycling community. What an absolute majority of sporting cyclists find normal and a part of cycling becomes some marketing bs to extort money from uninformed fools according to the usual suspects. It’s like looking into some alternative reality and I can’t look away. It’s my guilty pleasure I must say.
Likes For indyfabz:
#70
#71
Senior Member
Never thought about it but I would guess yes in this case but what I am surprised to be is a Tech-vangelist on these forums, which would be a surprise to my kids and family! I thought everyone was losing there marbles when the pro friction downtube shifting crowd got into it but wooden rims, really? Then dragging carbon into the debate as inferior this is bordering on insanity.
#72
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Bastrop Texas
Posts: 4,771
Bikes: Univega, Peu P6, Peu PR-10, Ted Williams, Peu UO-8, Peu UO-18 Mixte, Peu Dolomites
Liked 1,849 Times
in
1,185 Posts
Hey... Great! If they still make FAA approved Wooden Propellers then why not...
https://hoverhawk.com/hoverhawkwoodprops.html
https://hoverhawk.com/hoverhawkwoodprops.html
__________________
No matter where you're at... There you are... Δf:=f(1/2)-f(-1/2)
No matter where you're at... There you are... Δf:=f(1/2)-f(-1/2)
Likes For zandoval:
#73
Should Be More Popular
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Malvern, PA (20 miles West of Philly)
Posts: 43,643
Bikes: 1986 Alpine (steel road bike), 2009 Ti Habenero, 2013 Specialized Roubaix
Liked 9,572 Times
in
4,426 Posts
Only on bike forums can you get a 3 page thread discussing wooden bicycle rims and actually have people defending them! I am continually surprised how a forum discussing cycling can be so completely disconnected to the actual cycling community. What an absolute majority of sporting cyclists find normal and a part of cycling becomes some marketing bs to extort money from uninformed fools according to the usual suspects. It’s like looking into some alternative reality and I can’t look away. It’s my guilty pleasure I must say.
Likes For datlas:
#74
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 6,502
Bikes: Colnago, Van Dessel, Factor, Cervelo, Ritchey
Liked 8,313 Times
in
3,301 Posts
I want to lay claim to the punchline "big wood" now.
Likes For tomato coupe:
#75
Banned
No doubt somewhere in China they can produce a wheel from mystery plastic that looks just like wood. And as everyone knows, only suckers pay for real stuff when a generic look-a-like is available at a third the price.