big john

[QUOTE=t2p;23022705][QUOTE=terrymorse;23021935]I was referring to the triple and not using the 30 ring on most climbs, meaning climbing on the 39 like a standard double. I wouldn't climb on the 52.

In the 80s and early 90s most of us had doubles with 52-42 rings. On my 7 speed stuff I put a 28 cog on the back. You could buy individual cogs and put what you wanted. So I climbed everything in 42x28 low and I was 220#. Still can't believe I did that. I was always the slowest climber in my groups and had the lowest gear.

big john

There is only one answer; Depends.

Broctoon

BikeForums is sometimes an open powder keg. The OP here unwittingly drives by and...

terrymorse 

Thinking back to the olden times and the gears we had, it's amazing how we climbed anything at all. But we managed.

I built up a full Campy Record bike in 1974, and I think my lowest gear was 44x23. On climbs, my butt rarely saw the saddle. And cadence? Never heard of it.

This was the form to emulate:

tomato coupe

It's not so much a powder keg, as it is the Cuyahoga River.

Broctoon

How could it possibly catch fire? It's a river! (OP innocently flicks his cigarette in...)

Dave Mayer

For road use, 3 x systems make shifting dead simple, and you shift far less often.

90% of the time you're on the middle ring. Descending or a tailwind, then the big ring. On long climbs, the granny gear. I shift far less on a triple than a compact double, where you are frequently cycling back and forth between the big and little rings trying to find the right gear and not cross-chain.

Are triple systems low quality? Nope, not when running Campagnolo Record 3 x 10, which is amazing gear. Smooth, precise and reliable. And apparently perpetually serviceable. Or my Ultegra 3 x 10 systems. Not bad either, except the shifters eat cables.

PeteHski

The initial question is a bit odd really. The main reason for having a 3x is to get the widest possible gear range, with the smallest gaps between gears. So does that not imply that you will be shifting gears more often?

People keep talking about constantly having to flip between the big and small chainring on a 2x, but I doubt those people are using a modern 2x12 or if they are then they are not making full use of the cassette.

terrymorse 

Your experience is not everyone's experience.

When I had a triple on a road bike, I spent much of the time on the big ring, climbed almost always on the middle ring, and almost never used the small ring.

Once I switched to a compact double (and never looked back), I spend even more time on the big ring, and I shift the front less.

Edit: Shifting down the triple front big-to-middle was going from 52 to 42, a gear reduction of only 19%. Shifting down the compact double big-to-small was going from 50 to 34, a 32% gear reduction. That was a significant difference -- more "bang for the shift".

tomato coupe

There are some people that will never understand that other people don't ride the same way that they do.

Maelochs

That was actually answered very early on ... It Depends. What gearing are we discussing? What terrain? What is the desire and abilityof the rider?

There is no single answer, beyond, "It depends."

In general, the number of available gears does not dictate the number of shifts. The terrain, the amount of effort the rider wishes to exert, determine when the rider shifts. If the rider shifts when s/he finds a particular ratio to high or low for a given situation, then the rider shifts ... whether the bike has one, two, or three chain rings.

PeteHski

So here is some actual data from my road bike on 2x12 SRAM AXS (48/35 with 10-33 cassette)

Flat Century Fondo:-
Front shifts: 4
Rear shifts: 842

Hilly Century Fondo:-
Front shifts: 54
Rear shifts: 940

Mountain Century Fondo:-
Front shifts: 36
Rear shifts: 332

So relatively few front shifts and virtually none on a flat ride.

It would be interesting to see similar data for a 3x but I suspect nobody will have an electronic 3x to produce any.

Atlas Shrugged

This explains the dogmatic refusal to accept that things have progressed to the point that 3x systems are a vestige of the past. Yes, they are still being manufactured and sold, but only for entry-level and replacement markets. Demographically speaking the market for quality 3x systems is aging out of the sport further diminishing demand.

big john

Same, but I still have the triple bike as a back-up. I'm happy on either bike, actually, but if I buy another bike it will be a compact double.

genejockey 

When it just happens, it's usually because I need to tighten the friction shifter.

Kapusta

It is not an odd question at all, as evidenced by the fact that people are giving different answers based on their experience.

I shifted the front on my 3x9 triple less often than my 2x11 double.

tomato coupe

I think that's exactly why it's an odd question -- there is no correct answer without specifying numerous conditions.

seypat

I actually ride 3X to reduce my overall shifting. Not as much of an issue if you're not using shimano STIs with the dreaded long throw of the brake lever shift, or electronic. Still have to hold/push that button. But to answer your question, no. I'd much rather shift the FD once or twice and the RD 2-3 times than shift the FD once and the RD 7+ only to have to do it again in reverse down the road 500 yards. Not much of an issue if the terrain stays constant for a while. But if it's varying constantly like a roller coaster, I'll even take friction.

Maelochs

My question regarding this question would be .... What the F is wrong with shifting?

I can tell you, and I have seen other say the same ... that once they went to brifters from downtube friction shifting, they shifted a Lot more often and spent a lot Less time riding at a compromised cadence or pressure because shifting was so much more convenient.

Same with electronic , ... shift 50 times a minute if you like, to Always be in exactly the right ratio ... it is literally as easy as pushing a button.

if you want to shift less ... simply shift less.

I think the ease and accuracy of modern gear-change systems is a pure joy, and being able to shift so easily is a great feature .... I got indexed brifters (or indexed triggers on my MTB) because I Like to shift whenever the situation calls for it, and I like those shifts to be quick and precise.

If shifting is a bad thing ... join the ranks of the S/S riders. Apparently they are the most numerous by far, and they cannot be wrong if they are the majority, right?

To me the issue is never "How much am I shifting?" but "Do I have the right ratio, and how well do I know my gearbox so that I can always find the right ratio?"

Some people seem to be complaining that with a 2x sometimes you have to shift both ends. To me., that is just part of the system. I start out from a stop on a particular corner which leads to a short hill, in about the second or third lowest cog on the small ring. As i clear the corner and get onto the lower portion of the climb, I shift up in front. If I find that I am having a good day, I might do the hill in the big ring. if it is not a great day, I might shift back to the small ring. I shift up a couple in back and down in front and I am in a slightly lower ratio, but less of a jump than one down in back on the large ring. Three up and one down I am in a slightly higher ratio, but less high than one shift up on the large ring. That is what transmission is for ... finding the right ratio for the situation, to get maximum efficiency from the system.

When I rode MTB a lot (3x ... I know, I am ignorant of the amazing awesomeness of fewer options ... ) I had a ridiculously complete knowledge of all my crossover points so I could always find the right gear. I was always trying to plan ahead so I didn't have to try to shift up front under load, while still being able to maximize speed once I cleared the obstacle .... it was part of the fun of the ride.

Maybe because I had the ability to turn pretty high revs but not huge power, it was easier for me to use my gears and lungs instead of my muscles. I know that with fewer gears one must more often use muscle power to turn a too-large gear because there simply aren't any intermediate ratios ... but if a person has sufficient power to do so ... then the simpler system works just as well. We each need to optimize or tools for our abilities.

Of course, now I have neither legs nor lungs, and my heart has crapped out, so all of that is moot ...

seypat

For my particular situation, I was dealing with the Shimano STIs. The brake lever shift feels very similar(to me) to a wrist curl with a small dumbell and works the muscles the same way. On an all day ride, my right forearm muscles would get so beefy/tight to the point that I could no longer squeeze the brake lever. It would become a safety issue. Basically the equilivant of doing a wrist curl with every shift of the brake lever. Enter Microshift(or SRAM) and that issue has almost solved itself. Bear in mind that I'm a fast twitcher. The only reason I'm riding bikes/doing endurance sports is because I can't do the other sports anymore. I don't even like 1T jumps. Much prefer 2T jumps. The quickest way for me to cramps is droning along at the same cadence mile after mile. I still need the gears and have to shift them, so any time I can shift 4 or 5 times instead of double that, I'll take it. It helps. If I had to ride a fixed gear bike only, doubful I could go longer than 50 miles no matter how much I trained. I don't have the physiology for it. A single speed would extend that range simply because I could coast.

Maelochs

^ An excellent example of a rider learning what works For That Rider, and using it to optimize the riding experience.

big john

I remember that little bail. When I had bar end friction shifters I never had to mess with them.

genejockey 

I generally don't, but once or twice I've had a bike try to shift out of the low gear when standing up on a climb, which would be bad.

big john

The old DT shifters had the bail to tighten the preload. The bar ends had a screwdriver slot. I did have the DT come loose. Oh, just remembered a bike with friction shifters mounted on the stem. They had a little plastic wing nut type thing.

tomato coupe

... and pretending it doesn't happen with a 3x.