A power meter, without structured training? Musings after a couple of years.
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How flat is it in your area, btw? I think that a steady, uninterrupted climb would be best, but I think that I could manage with pan-flat, too... with a long enough stretch of road. The challenge in my area is that, while there isn't a lot of elevation, it's undulating and it can be hard to stay on top of the pedals after cresting a slight incline and going in to a slight decline.
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Oh, don't misunderstand me - I'm not at all saying that I'm disappointed or that I don't find it valuable; if it were to break, I'd get another one pretty much immediately. The difficulty in maximizing a power PR over a given duration is a mild knock to my ego massaging, but not much else. I still find it quite useful to look at how my power figures compare over given segments.
How flat is it in your area, btw? I think that a steady, uninterrupted climb would be best, but I think that I could manage with pan-flat, too... with a long enough stretch of road. The challenge in my area is that, while there isn't a lot of elevation, it's undulating and it can be hard to stay on top of the pedals after cresting a slight incline and going in to a slight decline.
How flat is it in your area, btw? I think that a steady, uninterrupted climb would be best, but I think that I could manage with pan-flat, too... with a long enough stretch of road. The challenge in my area is that, while there isn't a lot of elevation, it's undulating and it can be hard to stay on top of the pedals after cresting a slight incline and going in to a slight decline.
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Not saying you should do this, but, if you were only racing on Zwift, I bet I know a number of people who'd see this and unpair the right pedal and run them as if they were a left-only Uno for races. Again, not saying you should, but...
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Best quote I’ve ever heard about Zwift is from Thomas De Gendt.
“it’s easier to break off the front of the pro peloton at 50 kph than it is to win a Zwift race”
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Oh, don't misunderstand me - I'm not at all saying that I'm disappointed or that I don't find it valuable; if it were to break, I'd get another one pretty much immediately. The difficulty in maximizing a power PR over a given duration is a mild knock to my ego massaging, but not much else. I still find it quite useful to look at how my power figures compare over given segments.
How flat is it in your area, btw? I think that a steady, uninterrupted climb would be best, but I think that I could manage with pan-flat, too... with a long enough stretch of road. The challenge in my area is that, while there isn't a lot of elevation, it's undulating and it can be hard to stay on top of the pedals after cresting a slight incline and going in to a slight decline.
How flat is it in your area, btw? I think that a steady, uninterrupted climb would be best, but I think that I could manage with pan-flat, too... with a long enough stretch of road. The challenge in my area is that, while there isn't a lot of elevation, it's undulating and it can be hard to stay on top of the pedals after cresting a slight incline and going in to a slight decline.
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Of course, there are almost endless permutations of the experiment if you start playing with stuff like bar height, stem length, and body positioning, but for a amateur like me, that’s largely beyond my level of involvement. Having some awareness, though, especially for my fast group rides, has been an aid to me in managing my energy expenditures so that I can ride faster and longer, and have more discretionary reserves for stuff like town limit sprints and whatnot.
But yeah, there are many great uses for a power meter. My own best use is for stationary training, which I’ve been doing coached for 10 years now. I rode the road without a PM for awhile, but after awhile, curiosity got to me and I just had to know how much power it actually took to haul my corpulent mass around, so I got one. That was about eight years ago, and my use for power readings on the road is largely the same as it for others here, namely to help with pacing and effort management. The power meter stationary bike is still where I do the bulk of my training, and the two or three days a week I actually get outside to ride are the reason I do the training, so I don’t really have any power-guided goals on the road.
I like having the combo of Strava segments and a PM on the road, though, because I can really dial in when to strike the match, know how long it’s gonna burn, and know to what effort level I’ll need to drop back to for recovery. I guess it’s all about getting those micro-rewards like PRs and trophies! Well, it’s also about staying in the A group and as close to the wheel of the fastest cats as possible…
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For an endurance rider, FTP isn't the be all and end all. You want to be able to ride at a very high percentage of FTP for a long time. Without a PM or lactate meter, how would one optimize training to achieve that? Anaerobic and aerobic systems have to be balanced properly for the event. Sometimes one has to train slow to go faster in an event or other times, the anaerobic system isn't producing as much lactate as the aerobic system can burn. Measuring lactate even on a trainer is a PITA. PM makes it much easier. Otherwise, you are not even guessing. A pure stab in the dark.
You could work a whole year to gain 10 watts but gain twice that with effective aero testing. Need PM for that.
You could work a whole year to gain 10 watts but gain twice that with effective aero testing. Need PM for that.
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If you've got long unbroken stretches, flat is great for being able to hold consistent power... well, if it's not gusty, which I suspect would be a frequent problem with flat terrain.
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Re power cresting a hill and down the backside, a few years ago a poster here figured he was putting out 250w because he accelerated and said "wheee" to himself.
I countered that that output on a downhill is rare and I couldn't really find an example on Strava among many hammerheads and various local monster riders, and that 80-120w is the norm.
I have a local climb 1,500' at a very steady ~6% with no traffic that is a good FTP course. I could not come close to my (modest) wattage there on a flat FTP test.
I countered that that output on a downhill is rare and I couldn't really find an example on Strava among many hammerheads and various local monster riders, and that 80-120w is the norm.
I have a local climb 1,500' at a very steady ~6% with no traffic that is a good FTP course. I could not come close to my (modest) wattage there on a flat FTP test.
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Re power cresting a hill and down the backside, a few years ago a poster here figured he was putting out 250w because he accelerated and said "wheee" to himself.
I countered that that output on a downhill is rare and I couldn't really find an example on Strava among many hammerheads and various local monster riders, and that 80-120w is the norm.
I countered that that output on a downhill is rare and I couldn't really find an example on Strava among many hammerheads and various local monster riders, and that 80-120w is the norm.
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Re power cresting a hill and down the backside, a few years ago a poster here figured he was putting out 250w because he accelerated and said "wheee" to himself.
I countered that that output on a downhill is rare and I couldn't really find an example on Strava among many hammerheads and various local monster riders, and that 80-120w is the norm.
I have a local climb 1,500' at a very steady ~6% with no traffic that is a good FTP course. I could not come close to my (modest) wattage there on a flat FTP test.
I countered that that output on a downhill is rare and I couldn't really find an example on Strava among many hammerheads and various local monster riders, and that 80-120w is the norm.
I have a local climb 1,500' at a very steady ~6% with no traffic that is a good FTP course. I could not come close to my (modest) wattage there on a flat FTP test.
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Yes, but just to be clear, I wasn't talking about power on an extended downhill. I am concentrating on applying power over the crest, getting back up to speed as quickly as possible. After that it's different and depends on the grade, etc. It's not easy and I don't expect it's possible to maintain 300 W or whatever it is that I'm putting out on the hill as the pedal resistance falls, but with some concentration I can make sure to apply more power than 80-120 watts.
I completely agree on the benefit of powering over the crest of a hill, the benefit of a PM in showing the issue, & the need to practice to overcome the tendency to to slack off too soon.
IMO this is one of the biggest low-hanging fruits for speed gain.
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Yep, so easy to back off as you approach that crest and then get dropped going over the top. Better to surge over and then recover once up to speed on the downhill. Can't say I use my power meter for that though. It's more the steady state part of the climb where I'm checking on my power.
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For example, if I'm doing a 20-minute climb, I keep my power at or below the level I can currently sustain for 20 minutes. If I go over that for more than a brief spurt, I know I will crack and be forced to slow down.
Before I had a power meter, I used heart rate to dose my efforts. But heart rate varies too much and responds too slowly to changes in effort.
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A PM can be useful as a governor on any ride.
For example, if I'm doing a 20-minute climb, I keep my power at or below the level I can currently sustain for 20 minutes. If I go over that for more than a brief spurt, I know I will crack and be forced to slow down.
Before I had a power meter, I used heart rate to dose my efforts. But heart rate varies too much and responds too slowly to changes in effort.
For example, if I'm doing a 20-minute climb, I keep my power at or below the level I can currently sustain for 20 minutes. If I go over that for more than a brief spurt, I know I will crack and be forced to slow down.
Before I had a power meter, I used heart rate to dose my efforts. But heart rate varies too much and responds too slowly to changes in effort.
I was thinking of my stock 6 x 5 minute interval workout. I would rather not look at the meter, I am in too much pain and I seem to make more breakthrus when I don't look and just curse at my legs instead.
At the other extreme is a recovery ride.
Everything in between, I am more attuned to my power meter. Like today, I was doing 2 x 20 and could not believe my speed/power rate. It turns out my brake was dragging hard on the rim. Not sure why yet but it was entertaining during the workout.
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yep...that is a problem.
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A PM can be useful as a governor on any ride.
For example, if I'm doing a 20-minute climb, I keep my power at or below the level I can currently sustain for 20 minutes. If I go over that for more than a brief spurt, I know I will crack and be forced to slow down.
Before I had a power meter, I used heart rate to dose my efforts. But heart rate varies too much and responds too slowly to changes in effort.
For example, if I'm doing a 20-minute climb, I keep my power at or below the level I can currently sustain for 20 minutes. If I go over that for more than a brief spurt, I know I will crack and be forced to slow down.
Before I had a power meter, I used heart rate to dose my efforts. But heart rate varies too much and responds too slowly to changes in effort.
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But not all things are equal. In addition, crank inertial load tends to differ between flats and climbs, and some riders are more sensitive to changes in crank inertial load than others, so their power can be steadier when CIL is low than when it's high.
So, taken together, some riders will have no difference, some difference, or a lot of difference in their ability to hold steady power on the flats and on climbs. And you won't really know unless you have a power meter so you can tell.
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#46
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I don't use a power meter but I can see how it can be useful for pacing and tracking progress regardless of being able to do 20minute tests.
I think if there were bigger hills around here and I did longer rides, a power meter would be useful. Most I've done on a 60 mile ride around here was 3K of elevation, so not much around here.
I think if there were bigger hills around here and I did longer rides, a power meter would be useful. Most I've done on a 60 mile ride around here was 3K of elevation, so not much around here.
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There's actually a way to do it without a power meter but it requires pristine conditions and really really careful experimental technique, and it takes longer. But it can be done.
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Like others I have recorded my highest power in Zwift races for a couple reasons in my mind at least. First, the draft in Zwift is much less than in real life and I am often hanging on for dear life almost like a TT with VO2 max intervals thrown in randomly. Second, I find myself often riding in a blob of racers, some of whom are at a level higher and it takes threshold efforts just to sit on their wheels. So, I find there is zero rest in a Zwift race. There is some weird modeling that Zwift does, you could have a 152 cm 60 kg rider making 180 watts TT against a 195 cm 100Kg rider making 300 watts. Both on same bike. Zwift might assign a speed of 40 km/h to one and 42 km/h to the other. But the model gets the math wrong. Short and chubby is better than tall and thin in Zwift. I never used to make more power indoors than outside but with Zwift, I do. I cannot imagine being able to race effectively in Zwift without knowing how to use your power. You must know your functional reserve capacity and know how to conserve and use it when needed in order to survive. I usually finish and have won or placed but they are always brutally hard efforts from the start to the finish seemingly nonstop unlike a race in real life where you get to sit on wheels and rest a bit. So, my power numbers are always high in Zwift.
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Like others I have recorded my highest power in Zwift races for a couple reasons in my mind at least. First, the draft in Zwift is much less than in real life and I am often hanging on for dear life almost like a TT with VO2 max intervals thrown in randomly. Second, I find myself often riding in a blob of racers, some of whom are at a level higher and it takes threshold efforts just to sit on their wheels. So, I find there is zero rest in a Zwift race. There is some weird modeling that Zwift does, you could have a 152 cm 60 kg rider making 180 watts TT against a 195 cm 100Kg rider making 300 watts. Both on same bike. Zwift might assign a speed of 40 km/h to one and 42 km/h to the other. But the model gets the math wrong. Short and chubby is better than tall and thin in Zwift. I never used to make more power indoors than outside but with Zwift, I do. I cannot imagine being able to race effectively in Zwift without knowing how to use your power. You must know your functional reserve capacity and know how to conserve and use it when needed in order to survive. I usually finish and have won or placed but they are always brutally hard efforts from the start to the finish seemingly nonstop unlike a race in real life where you get to sit on wheels and rest a bit. So, my power numbers are always high in Zwift.
I believe they reduced the drafting effect to make breakaways a bit easier, which makes sense. Double draft was then introduced for group rides with a more realistic draft feel. So I look out for those rides.
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Yeah Zwift is tough! You also get guys on dumb trainers with wildly optimistic estimated power sitting on the front of a group hauling it into oblivion. If I don’t see the smart trainer power icon I don’t take the bait.
I believe they reduced the drafting effect to make breakaways a bit easier, which makes sense. Double draft was then introduced for group rides with a more realistic draft feel. So I look out for those rides.
I believe they reduced the drafting effect to make breakaways a bit easier, which makes sense. Double draft was then introduced for group rides with a more realistic draft feel. So I look out for those rides.
What is estimated power?
Don't you need some sort of power meter? I use a Powertap G3 measured at the wheels. I wish I had pedal meters. No drivetrain loss. LOL