It seems Di2 is here to stay.
#1
I am potato.
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: Pacific Northwest
Posts: 3,116
Bikes: Only precision built, custom high performance elitist machines of the highest caliber. 🍆
Mentioned: 29 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1789 Post(s)
Liked 1,629 Times
in
933 Posts
It seems Di2 is here to stay.
I tried Di2 on a friends bike a while ago. It seemed like a solution just looking for a problem.
Don't get me wrong. It worked flawlessly.
I think I just don't get it. It was like the Twitter or G+ of bicycles. Nice, but not worth the hype. I felt disconnected from the bike. It just wasn't there. No tactile feed back. No "being one with the machine." Just...nothing. Like a part of the cycling experience just wasn't there anymore. Touch, resistance change. Nothing more.
The thought actually crossed my mind: "This is why luxury car drivers & big vehicle SUV drivers drive so fast...just to feel something."
What's so wrong with plain ol' mechanical? Am I alone in my view that bicycles are the embodiment of efficiency? Cable shifting is the lowest energy state solution to the need for multiple ratios. Objectively then, from an engineering stand point that makes it best solution...Or does it? Why the need for batteries, stepper motors, circuit boards, connectors, radio, public spectrum allocation, protocols, proprietary IP, buttons, and all the other Rube Goldberg complications to move a chain ~5mm to the left or to the right?
I really, legitimately just don't get the attraction to the unnecessarily complicated or solutions to non-problems; The need to be removed from the experience. Even if it is in a field others usually consider me an ultra-enthusiast about.
Maybe the engineering fold in my otherwise smooth brain sees all the failure modes & dependencies as a liability to be avoided where others see "Oooh, shiny!" Magic is cool too, I guess. I'm just not sure what to do with that. (Not judge others, obviously.)
As an all-round bicycle enthusiast of the new & novel, I feel genuinely stupid. Like everyone else sees "it" but me. Seriously. What tangible, real world benefit does electronic shifting offer the end-user over well tuned mechanical? What design criteria or priority makes all the cost & complications of the system a fair trade? Or...is having part of the experience, the needs of the machine, the bicycle itself subtracted...Is that the benefit people seek?
Obviously what ever "it" is, it's mature enough to filter down to 105. That much I understand. All I see though is a big conceptual donut hole. Can someone please explain the "Why" of electronic shifting. Please?
Don't get me wrong. It worked flawlessly.
I think I just don't get it. It was like the Twitter or G+ of bicycles. Nice, but not worth the hype. I felt disconnected from the bike. It just wasn't there. No tactile feed back. No "being one with the machine." Just...nothing. Like a part of the cycling experience just wasn't there anymore. Touch, resistance change. Nothing more.
The thought actually crossed my mind: "This is why luxury car drivers & big vehicle SUV drivers drive so fast...just to feel something."
What's so wrong with plain ol' mechanical? Am I alone in my view that bicycles are the embodiment of efficiency? Cable shifting is the lowest energy state solution to the need for multiple ratios. Objectively then, from an engineering stand point that makes it best solution...Or does it? Why the need for batteries, stepper motors, circuit boards, connectors, radio, public spectrum allocation, protocols, proprietary IP, buttons, and all the other Rube Goldberg complications to move a chain ~5mm to the left or to the right?
I really, legitimately just don't get the attraction to the unnecessarily complicated or solutions to non-problems; The need to be removed from the experience. Even if it is in a field others usually consider me an ultra-enthusiast about.
Maybe the engineering fold in my otherwise smooth brain sees all the failure modes & dependencies as a liability to be avoided where others see "Oooh, shiny!" Magic is cool too, I guess. I'm just not sure what to do with that. (Not judge others, obviously.)
As an all-round bicycle enthusiast of the new & novel, I feel genuinely stupid. Like everyone else sees "it" but me. Seriously. What tangible, real world benefit does electronic shifting offer the end-user over well tuned mechanical? What design criteria or priority makes all the cost & complications of the system a fair trade? Or...is having part of the experience, the needs of the machine, the bicycle itself subtracted...Is that the benefit people seek?
Obviously what ever "it" is, it's mature enough to filter down to 105. That much I understand. All I see though is a big conceptual donut hole. Can someone please explain the "Why" of electronic shifting. Please?
Last edited by base2; 06-30-22 at 01:20 AM.
Likes For base2:
#2
Senior Member
I don't have it myself, but if I had the money I'd probably go for it. One of the advantages I can see is that you don't have to think about which chainring you're in, and it can be programmed to jump several steps at on the rear derailleur when you change the front one. That's obviously for a 2x setup. Having just got a mountain bike with a 1 x 12 setup, I actually found myself thinking the other day that the gear change was so slick that I couldn't see electronic shifting making a whole lot of difference.
I do find myself having to fiddle with the barrel adjuster on my road bike when the weather gets really cold; I presume the cable must shrink fractionally. Maybe I should spend more money on cables? Anyway, I guess you wouldn't have to do that with Di2 or Etap. That's a lot of money for a marginal gain, though.
I do find myself having to fiddle with the barrel adjuster on my road bike when the weather gets really cold; I presume the cable must shrink fractionally. Maybe I should spend more money on cables? Anyway, I guess you wouldn't have to do that with Di2 or Etap. That's a lot of money for a marginal gain, though.
#3
Wheelman
Join Date: Aug 2021
Location: Putney, London UK
Posts: 845
Bikes: 1982 Holdsworth Avanti (531), 1961 Holdsworth Cyclone
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 298 Post(s)
Liked 676 Times
in
341 Posts
I've got Suntour Power Shifters and a Suntour Cyclone Mk2 GT, they are very shiny and work perfectly (even does 8 speed).
I'm an old git and it works better than I do, I'll try a Di2 after I'm fitted with batteries.
I'm an old git and it works better than I do, I'll try a Di2 after I'm fitted with batteries.
Likes For Aardwolf:
#4
Full Member
Join Date: May 2020
Posts: 425
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 167 Post(s)
Liked 291 Times
in
163 Posts
I used to think the same; that electronic doesn't add much. I have SRAM Red eTap and Ultegra mech. I've done over 13600 miles on the electronic bike and over 17400 miles on the mech bike in the last 2.5 years. So I've had time to compare.
Firstly, I like both.
I like the simplicity and convenience of mech. I like the one-touch and speed of the electronic. In the beginning, I didn't see the electronic as being worth the extra cost. However, over time, it has grown on me and now I prefer it overall and would absolutely choose electronic in the future. But I ride competitively so it's not the same as someone who just wants to ride - which is the vast majority of cyclists.
In recreational and leisurely mode, the difference is 'meh' really. Sure, nice to just touch the lever rather than force a change but no big diffs. When pushing on, aiming for race speeds etc, electronic is hugely superior - it can mean the difference between winning a sprint and losing it, it can make breakaways faster to initiate - we're talking very fine margins here but anyone who races will know what I mean.
Like a lot in cycling, electronic was borne from the need for speed. It excels in that category. Outside of that, not sure I'd pay the difference, personally, but totally get someone wanting it even just for general cycling, it is smoother, it is nice.
Firstly, I like both.
I like the simplicity and convenience of mech. I like the one-touch and speed of the electronic. In the beginning, I didn't see the electronic as being worth the extra cost. However, over time, it has grown on me and now I prefer it overall and would absolutely choose electronic in the future. But I ride competitively so it's not the same as someone who just wants to ride - which is the vast majority of cyclists.
In recreational and leisurely mode, the difference is 'meh' really. Sure, nice to just touch the lever rather than force a change but no big diffs. When pushing on, aiming for race speeds etc, electronic is hugely superior - it can mean the difference between winning a sprint and losing it, it can make breakaways faster to initiate - we're talking very fine margins here but anyone who races will know what I mean.
Like a lot in cycling, electronic was borne from the need for speed. It excels in that category. Outside of that, not sure I'd pay the difference, personally, but totally get someone wanting it even just for general cycling, it is smoother, it is nice.
Likes For AlgarveCycling:
#5
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2017
Location: Hacienda Hgts
Posts: 2,109
Bikes: 1999 Schwinn Peloton Ultegra 10, Kestrel RT-1000 Ultegra, Trek Marlin 6 Deore 29'er
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 822 Post(s)
Liked 1,961 Times
in
944 Posts
All my cars over 40 years have been manual sticks.
I think OP's analogy is spot on. Once you learn how to drive or ride as a conditioned learned experience, you do not have to think about it.
Even on hills, it becomes second nature in preparing to climb or descend. I enjoy that part of riding/driving, cornering, braking, accelerating and with cycling since I am the motor this experience is amplified.
Now, I have never had electronic shifting bikes so my opinion is muted in this respect.
I have seen what happens when you forget to recharge the battery with my brother's Di2 equipped Emonda.
I think OP's analogy is spot on. Once you learn how to drive or ride as a conditioned learned experience, you do not have to think about it.
Even on hills, it becomes second nature in preparing to climb or descend. I enjoy that part of riding/driving, cornering, braking, accelerating and with cycling since I am the motor this experience is amplified.
Now, I have never had electronic shifting bikes so my opinion is muted in this respect.
I have seen what happens when you forget to recharge the battery with my brother's Di2 equipped Emonda.
Likes For CAT7RDR:
#6
Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2021
Posts: 1,683
Bikes: '38 Schwinn New World, ’69 Peugeot PX-10, '72 Peugeot PX-10, ‘7? Valgan, '78 Raleigh Comp GS, ’79 Holdsworth Pro, ’80 Peugeot TH-8 tandem, '87 Trek 400T, ‘7? Raleigh Sports, ‘7? Raleigh Superbe, ‘6? Hercules
Mentioned: 16 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 761 Post(s)
Liked 1,563 Times
in
757 Posts
You don't have to consciously think about it, but you're definitely 'thinking' about it in some part of your brain- constantly monitoring inputs, conditions, etc, and making choices based on them. Though it may be mostly unconscious, I think that need to be more attentive to the operation of the machine brings with it a higher level of general awareness/less distraction. And then there's the simple pleasure of exercising a skill well.
Likes For ehcoplex:
#7
Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Kentucky
Posts: 2,601
Bikes: 06 Lemond Reno, 98 GT Timberline mtn.bike
Mentioned: 8 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 427 Post(s)
Liked 700 Times
in
436 Posts
I haven't ridden a Di2 equipped bike yet. For me, a mech. der. is fine and I can adjust or replace if needed. From hanging out here and reading the mech. section, sounds like riders like them so long as they are working, but if they misfunction it may be difficult to correct. Guess this senior is stuck in analog mode. Don't care for touch screens in cars either.
#8
ignominious poltroon
Join Date: Jan 2022
Posts: 4,045
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2241 Post(s)
Liked 3,440 Times
in
1,801 Posts
I got it in 2014 because then, in order to get hydraulic shifting, I had to get it, as it was bundled when first released. I have zero regrets. I went from friction down-tube shifting (which I really liked) to Di2. I never owned a bike with mechanical "brifters." I do now (Campy on mine -- replaced the friction shifters, 105 on a couple of family bikes, etc), and I never really got used to the levers and find Di2 much more pleasant to use. The feedback is in the cadence, not making my hands hurt (this is hyperbole for me, but my wife has arthritic hands, so her new bike is going to have Di2).
The battery recharge is a non-issue. I let it run down intentionally when I first got it, just to see firsthand what would happen (stops shifting in the front first). I charge every 4 to 6 months, and haven't been caught out.
My only objection is vaguely philosophical: you shouldn't need to charge a battery to be able to ride a bike. But I got over it pretty quickly.
The battery recharge is a non-issue. I let it run down intentionally when I first got it, just to see firsthand what would happen (stops shifting in the front first). I charge every 4 to 6 months, and haven't been caught out.
My only objection is vaguely philosophical: you shouldn't need to charge a battery to be able to ride a bike. But I got over it pretty quickly.
#9
Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2016
Location: SE Wisconsin
Posts: 1,851
Bikes: Lemond '01 Maillot Jaune, Lemond '02 Victoire, Lemond '03 Poprad, Lemond '03 Wayzata DB conv(Poprad), '79 AcerMex Windsor Carrera Professional(pur new), '88 GT Tequesta(pur new), '01 Bianchi Grizzly, 1993 Trek 970 DB conv, Trek 8900 DB conv
Mentioned: 12 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 759 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 810 Times
in
471 Posts
Did you actually think it was going anywhere?
While I don't disagree with your thoughts, to be honest, as we both know, this is a troll post.
...and here we go...
While I don't disagree with your thoughts, to be honest, as we both know, this is a troll post.
...and here we go...
#10
Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Colorado Springs, CO
Posts: 5,974
Bikes: 2015 Charge Plug, 2007 Dahon Boardwalk, 1997 Nishiki Blazer, 1984 Nishiki International, 2006 Felt F65, 1989 Dahon Getaway V
Mentioned: 54 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1364 Post(s)
Liked 1,678 Times
in
827 Posts
Also, for non-enthusiasts, electronic shifting, paired with electrically assisted pedaling should yield a very good automatic transmission system. I think there are already some out there, one being based on the NuVinci CVT bicycle transmission.
Also, as with anything marketed and sold, there is "feature creep" where features are added to add the perception of advancement.
As for me, for now, I prefer un-assisted pedaling and nicely tuned, indexed, cable-actuated shifters, either by my hands, or on the down tube.
But I just turned 60, and at some point in the not too distant future my knees and hands may demand assisted shifting and pedaling (and possibly a third wheel for balance). I hope not, but if that's what it takes to keep riding, then that's what I'll do.
Likes For BobbyG:
#11
ignominious poltroon
Join Date: Jan 2022
Posts: 4,045
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2241 Post(s)
Liked 3,440 Times
in
1,801 Posts
Conflating e-bike pedal-assist with electronic shifting is a bit disingenuous.
#12
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2021
Posts: 8,442
Mentioned: 12 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4413 Post(s)
Liked 4,865 Times
in
3,011 Posts
Di2 bugs me a bit that it still has wires to route. So I prefer the SRAM wireless system.
Likes For PeteHski:
#13
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2021
Posts: 8,442
Mentioned: 12 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4413 Post(s)
Liked 4,865 Times
in
3,011 Posts
#14
Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2020
Location: Wake Forest, NC
Posts: 5,794
Bikes: 1989 Cinelli Supercorsa
Mentioned: 11 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3513 Post(s)
Liked 2,926 Times
in
1,775 Posts
What's so wrong with plain ol' mechanical? Am I alone in my view that bicycles are the embodiment of efficiency? Cable shifting is the lowest energy state solution to the need for multiple ratios. Objectively then, from an engineering stand point that makes it best solution...Or does it? Why the need for batteries, stepper motors, circuit boards, connectors, radio, public spectrum allocation, protocols, proprietary IP, buttons, and all the other Rube Goldberg complications to move a chain ~5mm to the left or to the right?
The oldest digital watches are about 50 years old. I found two operating ones on eBay. Once they die, they not not serviceable, that I know of, unless you replace the entire module. I doubt any at all will be operating in the next 63 years.
Thankfully I don't need to say the same for my Hamilton or my down tube shifter-equipped Cinelli.
#15
Forum Moderator
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Kalamazoo MI
Posts: 20,650
Bikes: Fuji SL2.1 Carbon Di2 Cannondale Synapse Alloy 4 Trek Checkpoint ALR-5 Viscount Aerospace Pro Colnago Classic Rabobank Schwinn Waterford PMount Raleigh C50 Cromoly Hybrid Legnano Tipo Roma Pista
Mentioned: 59 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3091 Post(s)
Liked 6,601 Times
in
3,785 Posts
I have a bike with 2x11 speed Shimano 105 brifters and I love it.
I have a bike with 2x11 Shimano GRX brifters and I love it.
I have a bike with 2x5 speed Shimano Crane down tube shifting and I love it.
I had a bike with 2x9 speed Campagnolo brifters and I loved it. Soon to buy another.
I have a bike with 2x11 Shimano Ultegra Di2 and I love it.
I have a bike with 2x7 Shimano 105 down tube shifting and I love it.
I have a bike with 2x11 Shimano GRX brifters and I love it.
I have a bike with 2x5 speed Shimano Crane down tube shifting and I love it.
I had a bike with 2x9 speed Campagnolo brifters and I loved it. Soon to buy another.
I have a bike with 2x11 Shimano Ultegra Di2 and I love it.
I have a bike with 2x7 Shimano 105 down tube shifting and I love it.
__________________
Last edited by cb400bill; 06-30-22 at 08:16 AM.
Likes For cb400bill:
#16
I'm good to go!
Join Date: Jul 2017
Location: Mississippi
Posts: 14,992
Bikes: Tarmac Disc Comp Di2 - 2020
Mentioned: 51 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6196 Post(s)
Liked 4,810 Times
in
3,318 Posts
Not sure what "feel" it is that you are losing with Di2 or any electronic shifter. It's not really so much that they shift better if at all. It's that they don't require as much ongoing maintenance as do cable pulled components.
With my cable pulled Shimano 105 I didn't need to feel anything. I just moved the lever or paddle and the DR shifted up or down. It's not like I started to shift and then paused for the exact moment when all the cogs and planets were in perfect alignment.
We'll continue to see electronic shifting go to lower and lower tier bikes. But likely not before these threads bemoaning the loss of cables take up a significant amount of terabytes in the servers.
I really don't care which I have on my bike but I'll lean towards electronic shifting since I've now experienced it. My 105 5800 shifted every bit as good or better than my Ultegra 8050 group. My Ultegra 8050 has needed no adjustment since new over 2 years ago.
With my cable pulled Shimano 105 I didn't need to feel anything. I just moved the lever or paddle and the DR shifted up or down. It's not like I started to shift and then paused for the exact moment when all the cogs and planets were in perfect alignment.
We'll continue to see electronic shifting go to lower and lower tier bikes. But likely not before these threads bemoaning the loss of cables take up a significant amount of terabytes in the servers.
I really don't care which I have on my bike but I'll lean towards electronic shifting since I've now experienced it. My 105 5800 shifted every bit as good or better than my Ultegra 8050 group. My Ultegra 8050 has needed no adjustment since new over 2 years ago.
Likes For Iride01:
#17
Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 8,515
Mentioned: 69 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3241 Post(s)
Liked 2,512 Times
in
1,510 Posts
I have a bike with 2x11 speed Shimano 105 brifters and I love it.
I have a bike with 2x11 Shimano GRX brifters and I love it.
I have a bike with 2x5 speed Shimano Crane down tube shifting and I love it.
I had a bike with 2x9 speed Campagnolo brifters and I loved it. Soon to buy another.
I have a bike with 2x11 Shimano Ultegra Di2 and I love it.
I have a bike with 2x7 Shimano 105 down tube shifting and I love it.
I have a bike with 2x11 Shimano GRX brifters and I love it.
I have a bike with 2x5 speed Shimano Crane down tube shifting and I love it.
I had a bike with 2x9 speed Campagnolo brifters and I loved it. Soon to buy another.
I have a bike with 2x11 Shimano Ultegra Di2 and I love it.
I have a bike with 2x7 Shimano 105 down tube shifting and I love it.
Likes For seypat:
#18
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 5,949
Bikes: Colnago, Van Dessel, Factor, Cervelo, Ritchey
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3952 Post(s)
Liked 7,299 Times
in
2,947 Posts
Another “I don’t get it” thread. Yawn.
#19
Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2017
Posts: 7,887
Mentioned: 38 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6971 Post(s)
Liked 10,968 Times
in
4,692 Posts
I have a bike with 2x11 speed Shimano 105 brifters and I love it.
I have a bike with 2x11 Shimano GRX brifters and I love it.
I have a bike with 2x5 speed Shimano Crane down tube shifting and I love it.
I had a bike with 2x9 speed Campagnolo brifters and I loved it. Soon to buy another.
I have a bike with 2x11 Shimano Ultegra Di2 and I love it.
I have a bike with 2x7 Shimano 105 down tube shifting and I love it.
I have a bike with 2x11 Shimano GRX brifters and I love it.
I have a bike with 2x5 speed Shimano Crane down tube shifting and I love it.
I had a bike with 2x9 speed Campagnolo brifters and I loved it. Soon to buy another.
I have a bike with 2x11 Shimano Ultegra Di2 and I love it.
I have a bike with 2x7 Shimano 105 down tube shifting and I love it.
All of this kvetching over the relative performance of Di2 vs mechanical misses the entire point -- which is that capitalism must continually generate new (and more profitable) things for us to purchase.
#20
Forum Moderator
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Kalamazoo MI
Posts: 20,650
Bikes: Fuji SL2.1 Carbon Di2 Cannondale Synapse Alloy 4 Trek Checkpoint ALR-5 Viscount Aerospace Pro Colnago Classic Rabobank Schwinn Waterford PMount Raleigh C50 Cromoly Hybrid Legnano Tipo Roma Pista
Mentioned: 59 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3091 Post(s)
Liked 6,601 Times
in
3,785 Posts
#21
Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: North Central Wisconsin
Posts: 4,624
Mentioned: 14 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2976 Post(s)
Liked 1,182 Times
in
771 Posts
Not sure what you mean by feeling disconnected from the bike. Push a button or shifter and it shifts. My shifting is smooth on all my bikes (shimano slightly smoother than SRAM) but changing it over to electronic would not change how it feels.
With that said, I'm not planning to go to electronic shifting anytime soon. Maybe I'll change my mind later. On friends bikes-e shifting I have already seen batteries die and software/electronics malfunctions already for those that have it and then they can't switch gears. Plus it's one more battery that I need to worry about charging up. I already have cell phones, chainsaws, bike lights, watches, weed whackers and bike computers to charge up. I don't want one more item to worry about when cables work just fine.
Maybe I'll change my mind in the future. IDK.
With that said, I'm not planning to go to electronic shifting anytime soon. Maybe I'll change my mind later. On friends bikes-e shifting I have already seen batteries die and software/electronics malfunctions already for those that have it and then they can't switch gears. Plus it's one more battery that I need to worry about charging up. I already have cell phones, chainsaws, bike lights, watches, weed whackers and bike computers to charge up. I don't want one more item to worry about when cables work just fine.
Maybe I'll change my mind in the future. IDK.
#22
Guest
Join Date: Sep 2020
Posts: 2,888
Mentioned: 13 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1346 Post(s)
Liked 3,270 Times
in
1,439 Posts
It's not for you; maybe just leave it at that.
#23
Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 2,394
Mentioned: 14 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1562 Post(s)
Liked 1,734 Times
in
974 Posts
Since nobody has answered the OP's question, I'll answer it. It's the trimming. Trimming is the biggest annoyance in riding a mechanical shifting bike. Especially bad when you get to the wider cassettes like the 11 and 12 speed cassettes.
To be fair, SRAM did conquer this problem with the Yaw technology which changes the angle of the FD slightly in each chain ring.
To be extra fair, Shimano also conquered this problem back when they made the RSX brifters with no trim function- the narrow 7 speed cassette didn't need trimming in most instances (You just have to avoid big-big IIRC)
To be extra, extra fair, Suntour also conquered this problem even earlier back when they introduced the 'Symmetry' top mount shifters. As you (friction) shift the rear shifter, the shifter mount will move the pivot for the front shifter, and adjust the FD slightly to compensate.
To be fair, SRAM did conquer this problem with the Yaw technology which changes the angle of the FD slightly in each chain ring.
To be extra fair, Shimano also conquered this problem back when they made the RSX brifters with no trim function- the narrow 7 speed cassette didn't need trimming in most instances (You just have to avoid big-big IIRC)
To be extra, extra fair, Suntour also conquered this problem even earlier back when they introduced the 'Symmetry' top mount shifters. As you (friction) shift the rear shifter, the shifter mount will move the pivot for the front shifter, and adjust the FD slightly to compensate.
#24
ignominious poltroon
Join Date: Jan 2022
Posts: 4,045
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2241 Post(s)
Liked 3,440 Times
in
1,801 Posts
#25
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 5,949
Bikes: Colnago, Van Dessel, Factor, Cervelo, Ritchey
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3952 Post(s)
Liked 7,299 Times
in
2,947 Posts
Likes For tomato coupe: