beng1

And you also missed that I am down on the drops and the Tour riders are not, if they were it is easy to see they would be identical to my position. And besides I am riding a fifty-year old steel frame, so that I am getting it as close as I am, and able to go as fast as I do on this bike, is proof that I am doing it right. This year I am throwing some Continental tires on this bike along with some 180mm cranks, and if the bad valve to my aorta does not get any leakier I will be going just as as fast or faster than last year.

terrymorse 

It doesn't matter. Hoods or drops, your hands are nowhere near where a pro places their hands.

That is not proof that you managed a correct bike fit. The photo is evidence that the human body can still perform fairly well in an awkward and far-from-optimal bike position.

Longer cranks will make your hip angle even more closed, which will make it harder to produce power.

Some unsolicited advice: Rather than try to invent a bike position, pay attention to what professional bike fitters have to say. Since you seem to be focused on achieving an extreme aero position, something approximating a time trial position might suit you well.

shelbyfv

Heck, I'd buy him a beer if he could ride even 5 miles in that scrunch! Maybe even a pack of bar tape....

Lombard

beng1 strikes again! Really beng1 , I would love to see a video of you riding in that position.

BTinNYC 

Mara,
Maybe consider raising the bars up while your body's flexibility improves. A new stem with an upward angle will change your position a lot and maybe after 6 months of riding you can use the original stem comfortably. This is how it worked for me. Good luck!!

prj71

Google search. The internet is kinda a kewl thing these days.

https://www.google.com/search?client...+while+cycling

terrymorse 

The "just Google it" reply was never polite or very useful, and it went out of fashion in the 2000s.

Post better.

Wildwood 

I've posted these pics before. Critique my position. Getting a fit next week, would appreciate all opinions ahead of that.

for @mara777 = a low cycling position is not natural, takes time to get used to. Often a saddle issue for sustaining the position (for men anyway).

Look thru your eyebrows and don't forget your readers.


edit: ....and YES, I can hold this position for miles, Max power to pedals is slightly more open with hands on the hoods.

Iride01 

Don't forget to consider the helmet you wear too. Some come too low on your brow or are too far away from your forehead and block the view making you have to lift your head higher. Visors can do the same thing.

Some helmets have various ways to make the helmet sit further back on your head. Check inside them and see if there is adjustment for how the cradle (can't think of the proper name) fits your head. Not just the little wheel you spin on the back to tighten the band.

genejockey 

If you can hold the position for miles, it strikes me it's a good fit. Your back looks reasonably close to level. One thing I find is that straightening my back takes some pressure off my neck, because it doesn't have to bend back as far. The problem then is that my thighs are hitting the bottom of my ribcage. It used to be they were hitting my gut, but I lost about 30#.

Carbonfiberboy 

The main trick with avoiding neck pain is to reduce the angle between your neck and back. Yeah, sure, everyone knows that. But the trick there is to flatten your back, especially your upper back. If you look back through the above photos, you'll notice quite a bit of variation in upper back curvature and you can easily see how a flatter upper back will reduce neck bend. There's an old thread all about this, here: https://www.bikeforums.net/road-cycl...discovery.html

It works. Of course neck exercises also help. When I go to the gym in the fall, I start with a bunch of upper upper body strengthening work, shrugs, dumbbell presses, side and front raises, that sort of thing. I think that helps some. A RAAM rider who succumbed to Schermer's Neck on year came back the next having strengthened his neck, no problems. He also used a head harness from which he suspended a plate and worked his neck that way. You can find them online.

terrymorse 

Looking at your "hip angle closed", angle from leg at top of pedal stroke to torso:





Typical recommended "hip angle closed" is around 45 degrees. Yours appears to be about 34 degrees. Quite low. You're probably giving up watts to accomplish this small hip angle.

Then there's shoulder angle:


Recommended range is typically 85-90 degrees. Yours looks like about 82 degrees, slightly low.

Lombard

This is precisely why I always ditch the visor on my helmets before the first time I use them.

Wildwood 

Thank you, very much.
Hip angle closed, losing watts = as admitted, hands on hoods & slightly higher upper body yields more watts (possibly?!?, ).
It is also true that my more normal position in the drops would not have the forearms level. (maybe, just maybe I was posing for the camera buddy, I wasn't traveling at 30mph, ha)

Shoulder angle = narrow bars and decades trying for a small frontal on a 6'1" frame.

Wildwood 

@genejockey - Good comment. One point I have repeatedly made on these Forums, is that a range of positions on the bike should be comfortable under power. There are some exceptions, such as time trialing - where a single power/aero position is optimized for given race distances.

I would maintain there are conditions where aero positioning over optimal power output is faster,... besides high speed descending. Maybe.

Heck, we all know that training the engine to be better is the point for most of us. But sometimes efficiency helps.

The main priority for all non-racing cyclists should be to ride free of pain, regularly, with a smile on their face. The rest is gravy.

beng1

???? Everyone knows I ran this bike in a 20K TT last summer and averaged 19.5mph, and I practiced the TT distance on this bike probably fifty times and put almost 2000 miles on it last season including some fifty to sixty mile rides. It is the most comfortable bike I have as far as position goes. But then most people in our society never learn that everyone else is not them.......

My bike setup has nothing to do with this thread anyway, I made the point that with time in an aero position it becomes natural and no problem for a rider at all once they are used to it and develop the muscles etc. it needs, and that is indisputable.

shelbyfv

Not everyone. You may well have ridden that thing 12(!) miles but you didn't do it in that scrunch you pictured. Looking at Wildwood's pics, it seems likely he could ride like that for some distance. You are correct that your setup has nothing to do with this thread.

rsbob 

Hate to tell you that an analysis figured that if Laurent Fignon didn’t have a pony tail, he would have won the TdF. So you can probably forget body position

Lombard

These two statements contradict each other. You say not everyone is you. Correct. Then you go on to paint a broad brush implying that if it works for you, it is "natural" for everyone else. I myself do stretches every day and while that helps, I know I will never be as hyper flexible as some who have naturally long tendons.

Which is it, beng1 ?

seypat

My head is usually positioned to get the maximum amount of airflow to my lungs. That's the main reason I can't ride a bent, or drive a car gangster style.

prj71

No. Reading from some experts is better than 40 "opinions" on the matter.

What's out of fashion these days is forums. This place being one of the exceptions. Lots of other forums I used to participate on are now ghost towns thanks to Facebucks.

shelbyfv

Yep, forums are now mostly old guys. Things will get crazier with our inevitable cognitive decline.

terrymorse 

No, "just Google it" is no different that "do your own research, you lazy person".

A helpful reply is "I have looked into this subject and found an expert opinion that is relevant. Here is a pertinent quote from that expert's article, along with a link to the full article."

PeteHski

My 13 year old daughter informs me that Facebook is for the oldies. It's all about Insta and TikTok apparently. I don't bother with any of them. I do have a Facebook account just so I can follow the odd discussion group, but I find Facebook threads are too much of a random mess and I soon lose interest.

prj71

I mean if a person can't look up "Proper Head Position while Cycling" then yeah...it's kind of lazy. And you made my point...You just explained what said person could have done themselves.

Similar to some Facebook fishing groups I'm in. A plethora of knowledge exists on google of where and how to fish....Yet people post in the group..."Where should I go fishing" That's lazy. Just put boots on the ground and explore.