A lot of the recent "innovation" is a bad bargain for anyone not pushing a competitiv
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#127
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#128
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#129
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Oh, that happened to my mtn bike when we were riding in Moab. Putting the bike on the roof rack and tightening the hold down strap I noticed a few cracks just like that. Drove from the trail straight to a bike shop. New rim.
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Mavic Open Pro CDs, Kysriums, and Salsa Delgados were all infamously prone to cracking at the spoke holes. Some say it was the anodizing.
Kahn -- hope you went to Rim Cyclery in Moab!
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#131
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But all aluminum rims will fail if they're ridden long enough. Hard anodizing just makes them fail sooner.
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I was anything but a mt biker! I probably pushed my bike through about half of the Red/Rim rock trail. Did Monitor/Merrimac. Rode the old road up into Arches and around Courthouse Wash???? Joined the paved road near Balanced Rock, perhaps? I recall one terrific fall - into a creek where for the first time in decades I knocked all the air out of my lungs and trying to breathe, Like when I was a kid who fell on his chest and did the same. I also remember descending into some creek bed on a curvy trail and up the other side. I watched as some guy did it and looked like he was on skis smoothly navigating the entire curvy descent and up the curvy other side. It was an interesting trip. We also hiked - much more my element.
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After many mountain biking trips there in the 90s, I also took up hiking — challenging and not as thrilling, but some of the areas where bikes aren’t permitted are well worth the effort.
Apologies to all for the thread hijack.
Last edited by Rolla; 07-02-21 at 09:53 AM.
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#136
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I wonder if the OP has actually ridden both newer and older bikes.
I have both a road bike from the... well, late 60's. With several updates over the years.
And, I built up my first carbon fiber bike a couple of years ago (with a frame from the late 90's, and newer components).
Wow, riding the CF bike, it just felt like a bike should feel (I suppose I should try an even newer one).
My old toe clips.. I was happy enough with them. But, much happier when I changed over to SPD pedals.
I never liked braking from the hoods with the old Universal brakes. But, it is just so natural with the new brake levers.
I ride from the bar tops... and the flattened "aero" bar tops are much more comfortable than the round ones.
I haven't gone to disc yet, but the new(ish) Ultegra 6800 dual pivot brake calipers are very good.
Man, I got a lot of flats with the Sewups. New tires are just better.
I just never was satisfied with the 13T or 14T high end on the old freewheels. I suppose it is a bit of my riding style, but the newer cassettes work nice.
I have some touring upgrades planed. The old bike is just so flexy in the rear end. Hopefully I can eventually solve that issue.
I still like the old bike... but some new stuff is well... just better. Not everything. I think many of the cassettes wear faster than the freewheels. But, a lot is very good.
I have both a road bike from the... well, late 60's. With several updates over the years.
And, I built up my first carbon fiber bike a couple of years ago (with a frame from the late 90's, and newer components).
Wow, riding the CF bike, it just felt like a bike should feel (I suppose I should try an even newer one).
My old toe clips.. I was happy enough with them. But, much happier when I changed over to SPD pedals.
I never liked braking from the hoods with the old Universal brakes. But, it is just so natural with the new brake levers.
I ride from the bar tops... and the flattened "aero" bar tops are much more comfortable than the round ones.
I haven't gone to disc yet, but the new(ish) Ultegra 6800 dual pivot brake calipers are very good.
Man, I got a lot of flats with the Sewups. New tires are just better.
I just never was satisfied with the 13T or 14T high end on the old freewheels. I suppose it is a bit of my riding style, but the newer cassettes work nice.
I have some touring upgrades planed. The old bike is just so flexy in the rear end. Hopefully I can eventually solve that issue.
I still like the old bike... but some new stuff is well... just better. Not everything. I think many of the cassettes wear faster than the freewheels. But, a lot is very good.
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#141
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I wonder if the OP has actually ridden both newer and older bikes.
I have both a road bike from the... well, late 60's. With several updates over the years.
And, I built up my first carbon fiber bike a couple of years ago (with a frame from the late 90's, and newer components).
Wow, riding the CF bike, it just felt like a bike should feel (I suppose I should try an even newer one).
My old toe clips.. I was happy enough with them. But, much happier when I changed over to SPD pedals.
I never liked braking from the hoods with the old Universal brakes. But, it is just so natural with the new brake levers.
I ride from the bar tops... and the flattened "aero" bar tops are much more comfortable than the round ones.
I haven't gone to disc yet, but the new(ish) Ultegra 6800 dual pivot brake calipers are very good.
Man, I got a lot of flats with the Sewups. New tires are just better.
I just never was satisfied with the 13T or 14T high end on the old freewheels. I suppose it is a bit of my riding style, but the newer cassettes work nice.
I have some touring upgrades planed. The old bike is just so flexy in the rear end. Hopefully I can eventually solve that issue.
I still like the old bike... but some new stuff is well... just better. Not everything. I think many of the cassettes wear faster than the freewheels. But, a lot is very good.
I have both a road bike from the... well, late 60's. With several updates over the years.
And, I built up my first carbon fiber bike a couple of years ago (with a frame from the late 90's, and newer components).
Wow, riding the CF bike, it just felt like a bike should feel (I suppose I should try an even newer one).
My old toe clips.. I was happy enough with them. But, much happier when I changed over to SPD pedals.
I never liked braking from the hoods with the old Universal brakes. But, it is just so natural with the new brake levers.
I ride from the bar tops... and the flattened "aero" bar tops are much more comfortable than the round ones.
I haven't gone to disc yet, but the new(ish) Ultegra 6800 dual pivot brake calipers are very good.
Man, I got a lot of flats with the Sewups. New tires are just better.
I just never was satisfied with the 13T or 14T high end on the old freewheels. I suppose it is a bit of my riding style, but the newer cassettes work nice.
I have some touring upgrades planed. The old bike is just so flexy in the rear end. Hopefully I can eventually solve that issue.
I still like the old bike... but some new stuff is well... just better. Not everything. I think many of the cassettes wear faster than the freewheels. But, a lot is very good.
#142
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#144
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As an interesting aside- there just wasn't a whole lot of innovations with the bicycle, between saying 1950 to 1980. This was the TdF winning bike from 1947:
Coppi
TdF bikes from 1978:
Hinault
The bikes look really similar - with steel lugged frame, down tube shifted derailleurs, toe strap pedals, tubular tires and side pull caliper brakes. There just wasn't too much in the way of innovations during those years. In a sense, a lot of what we think of as 'classic bikes', are a product of those 30-40 years of stagnation.
In the early 80's there was a big push towards aerodynamics. From there we had an explosion of new technology from the mid 80's to mid 90's- aero brakes, hidden cable routing, dual pivot brakes, brifters, clipless pedals, carbon fiber, aluminum, titanium, etc.... Again from the mid 2000's to the present time we have yet another big wave of innovations with electronic shifting, power meters, tubeless tires, hollow cranks, carbon fiber wheels, aero everything.
So one could think of the circa 1980 'classic bike' as a time tested, timeless, well rounded product, or you could also think of it as a hopeless dinosaur from an era of stagnation.
Coppi
TdF bikes from 1978:
Hinault
The bikes look really similar - with steel lugged frame, down tube shifted derailleurs, toe strap pedals, tubular tires and side pull caliper brakes. There just wasn't too much in the way of innovations during those years. In a sense, a lot of what we think of as 'classic bikes', are a product of those 30-40 years of stagnation.
In the early 80's there was a big push towards aerodynamics. From there we had an explosion of new technology from the mid 80's to mid 90's- aero brakes, hidden cable routing, dual pivot brakes, brifters, clipless pedals, carbon fiber, aluminum, titanium, etc.... Again from the mid 2000's to the present time we have yet another big wave of innovations with electronic shifting, power meters, tubeless tires, hollow cranks, carbon fiber wheels, aero everything.
So one could think of the circa 1980 'classic bike' as a time tested, timeless, well rounded product, or you could also think of it as a hopeless dinosaur from an era of stagnation.
By 1980 pros were often riding bicycles lighter than what the rules allow today.
Hollow cranks existed in the 1930s.
Stagnation is what you see from your perspective. You are simply wrong.
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One can look at the modern iteration of technology as progress in performance (braking, shifting) but regression in the sense of user cost and repairabiliry.
Modern bikes I think will become "disposable" in the sense of proprietary parts that become unobtainable if the parent company folds or in the sense of repurchazing an updated model when problems begin to occur (it's cheaper to buy a new bike than fix it).
They will also become more reliant on professional mechanics to service systems than repairs/adjustments that can be done at home by the consumer. Hydraulic brakes, electronic shifting, pneumatic shocks, tubeless tires.
I'm sure someone will say they service those things themselves but more and more people take bikes into shops for that. Partially it's specialization and partially it's scale. Someone might venture to home repair a $300 bike but is less likely for a $3000 bike.
Modern bikes do perform better but at an ancillary cost.
There is a whole subset of rider who eshues modern technology on purpose, SS/FG.
Modern bikes I think will become "disposable" in the sense of proprietary parts that become unobtainable if the parent company folds or in the sense of repurchazing an updated model when problems begin to occur (it's cheaper to buy a new bike than fix it).
They will also become more reliant on professional mechanics to service systems than repairs/adjustments that can be done at home by the consumer. Hydraulic brakes, electronic shifting, pneumatic shocks, tubeless tires.
I'm sure someone will say they service those things themselves but more and more people take bikes into shops for that. Partially it's specialization and partially it's scale. Someone might venture to home repair a $300 bike but is less likely for a $3000 bike.
Modern bikes do perform better but at an ancillary cost.
There is a whole subset of rider who eshues modern technology on purpose, SS/FG.
Last edited by Happy Feet; 07-03-21 at 09:41 AM.
#146
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I would really like to see an example of that. I've read of 18-lb bikes of that era, but nothing below 15 lbs.
#147
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The driving force in the bicycle industry is to make cyclists buy more bicycles and associated gear in order to make more money. The innovations in bike technology have been for the most part good, but few have been necessary. I could have sent the rest of my life on bikes with rim brakes, but now they are fairly uncommon as hydraulic discs are everywhere. Who really needs all the high tech stuff that brings bicycle costs into the thousands?
Another push in the industry is to make cyclists lust after speed so that they will buy the latest gear to shave off a few grams of weight and improve their "times." Titanium bolts and that sort of stuff are expensive and, for the most part, fairly useless.
Most of the cyclists I know and see aren't concerned with high tech innovations or with speed. They simply like to ride their bikes.
But no one compels cyclists to buy new stuff. If you want to and have the money, there you go. If you like some of the latest innovations, they are there to buy. No harm done. I do wish, however, that bicycles weren't so expensive.
Another push in the industry is to make cyclists lust after speed so that they will buy the latest gear to shave off a few grams of weight and improve their "times." Titanium bolts and that sort of stuff are expensive and, for the most part, fairly useless.
Most of the cyclists I know and see aren't concerned with high tech innovations or with speed. They simply like to ride their bikes.
But no one compels cyclists to buy new stuff. If you want to and have the money, there you go. If you like some of the latest innovations, they are there to buy. No harm done. I do wish, however, that bicycles weren't so expensive.
#148
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Eddy Merckx even earlier raced road bikes at 6.5 kilos. And they had to stand up to Eddy. Made by various builders in steel. Why would that be hard? We are talking race bikes, not extrapolating from Raleigh Pros or PX-10s. Just lots of bikes weighed under 18 pounds and those would have been available even in the 60s.
I know these bikes by virtue of having been alive when those bikes were made. Reading what moderns know of things that happened before they were born is amusing.
#149
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I am not a "modern". I had completed my undergrad by 1980.
#150
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Today I rode my bike with cartridge bearing hubs made in 1960. No, not the phenomenally heavy Maxicar hubs, Sanshin hubs from Japan.
Also have two bikes with 1930s FB hubs. All service parts interchangeable with Campagnolo Tipo. You could say I have hubs that have lasted a lifetime.
Also have two bikes with 1930s FB hubs. All service parts interchangeable with Campagnolo Tipo. You could say I have hubs that have lasted a lifetime.