VegasJen

Thanks. I'll have to check that out. I might need to get a wheel set just for events though, keep a training wheel set on the bike for regular rides. It seems I'm constantly picking up wire from shredded radials on my normal route. Just the hazards of living in a rural community with very few dedicated bike lanes/paths.

Barry2 

Source ?

Barry

Russ Roth

And this nails the concept. If you've got the time and enjoy the sport the gains might be marginal but even marginal gains at the right cost are worth it for something you enjoy doing.

I've got my daughter's bike set up with latex tubes and latex tubeless sealant in them, not only does it ride nice, the sealant should help in the event of a tiny flat, and the latex sealant does seem to have slowed down how often I have to fill her tires. So far, no flats in over a year. But, don't use sealant if the tires won't be used regularly, her cross tubes now have a small chunk of solidified sealant in one of them which doesn't matter in a cross tire that rarely seems over 12mph but it would be a different matter in a road tire that sees 30+mph descents.

chaadster

I don’t recall a pre-tubeless Ksyrium Elite Disc wheelset and so don’t know the exact specs, but I don’t think Ksyriums were ever aero, certainly not like a modern carbon fiber wheelset. Based on my own experience with Ksyriums (I still have a set), aero rims, and CF aero rims, I think a pair of carbon aero wheels would be real game-changers.

The benefits of a wider rim were mentioned, but I think the benefits of the aero effect are being under-appreciated. Sure, wind can present handling problems at some angles, but at others, it can really sail a deep-section wheel. Regardless of that, though, there’s a big efficiency difference between a non-aero wheelset like Ksyrium Elite and a well-tuned aero wheelset.

i haven’t directly compared my Ksyriums to my 45mm carbon wheels, but I’ve not ridden the Ks in years because my 30mm deep, aero alu wheely GB were so much better. Without even trying, my 45mm CF aero wheels put my solo rides today within spitting distance of some of my PRs set on group rides back in ‘15, so there’s some real effect going on. Unfortunately, I’m also nearly 20lbs heavier, so the wheels ain’t fixin’ that!

Additionally, a well-chosen aero wheelset can deliver those bennies as well as substantial weight-savings over the Ksyriums, so it’s an actual win/win. For example, the rather blunt, 22mm rim height, ‘18 Mavic KED wheelset was 1670g according to Mavic, whereas something like the new Lún Hyper R45 with aero optimized, differentiated F/R rim depth and profiles, clocks in at 1322g, saving a significant 350g, or more than 3/4lbs, which would be welcome on any Everesting attempt, I’d think.

Faster and lighter is a deal which works for me, and I rarely spend long hours in the saddle or do centuries, and as noted upthread, the aero benefits get bigger the longer one rides, so for an Everest-ambitious century rider, that should make light n’ aero even more attractive.

tFUnK

It's marketed as a high-performance all-rounder. Interpret that how you will. I acknowledge that these days the boundary between what's considered a training tire vs. what's considered a race tire has been blurred with tubeless and clincher tires making their way into the pro peloton, but the GP5k is the successor to the GP4k, and the GP4k was always traditionally thought of as a training tire (albeit one that many race on, especially if one is not riding tubulars). I'm not disputing the fact that the GP#K series of tires have always performed as well as tires marketed as race tires (eg, GP Attack/Force, Vittoria Opens, etc.).

tFUnK

It's all relative, though. The Ksyriums are definitely not considered aero by today's standards but they were one of the first to introduce fat bladed spokes, which, compared to the box rims with round spokes at the time, were thought to offer an aerodynamic benefit. They certainly caught a lot of cross wind. Today even the 30mm deep V alloy rims of the late 90s/early 00s aren't considered "aero" given how deep we've been able to go with carbon rims.

tFUnK

I wonder if you might be a good candidate for tubeless.

VegasJen

I don't know. I don't know enough about them. Without knowing, it seems like tubeless might be more susceptible to punctures. But I'm open to learning new things.

chaadster

That’s a fascinating statement, and really speaks to the nature and quality of the discussions around here, I think. BF is like the 4Chan of the cycling world sometimes.

chaadster

Your point is taken, as there many “classic” wheels in production and use when Ksyrium dropped in the late ‘90s (or was it ‘00s?), but Mavic knew aero well by then, since they’d been making disc and tri-spoke wheels since the ‘80s, and Cosmic Carbone launched in the early ‘90s, many years ahead of Ksyrium, so even when new, Ksyrium was relatively non-aero within the Mavic lineup. And of course, HED had already dropped it’s 2nd gen, toroidal deep section wheel, the Jet, by the time Ksyrium came out, as had the Zipp 400 been out for a decade, so there was certainly an aero standard which Ksyrium never met.

joesch

Conti GP 5k is a highly rated and great performing tire.
Depending on model version TdF, TL, TR or TT they rate 4.5 to 5.0 based on specs like mm, grams and watts.
I love riding the TdF version and they are the lowest rated of the variants at 4.5.

alcjphil

The exact opposite is true. I have been riding road tubeless tires for 12 years and in that time I have only once had to stop to repair a flat. A couple of other times I had a leak slow enough that all I had to do was stop and pump the tire back up to finish my ride. If you get a lot of small pinprick punctures, tubeless is the best way to deal with them

Barry2 

So, it would appear you do consider GP 5000 a race tire.
or
a training tire for those that race tubs.

That’s fair.

I gave up tubs 40 years ago.
As a broke 19yr old, I didn’t enjoy that much sewing.

Barry

Barry2 

+1
Me too!

9000+ tubeless miles on 700cx25 (road tubeless) and no ride ending flats.
Even a 1.5” nail that went in the tread & out the sidewall. Tire was still hard the following day when I found it on my pre-ride inspection.

My buddies got sick of fixing flats while I heckle them and have all gone tubeless.

Just know two things
1. Tubeless will loose more air overnight
2. You will need to check (top up) sealant level every 2-4 months, (takes <10mins if you do it right)

Barry

BlazingPedals

To me it seems a bit disingenuous to claim that tubeless tires are more resistant to flats - and then add the proviso that you need to keep the sealant topped off.

terrymorse 

Modern tubeless tires leak air, so they require liquid sealant to be installed within the tire, and the sealant must be refreshed periodically.

This inherent leakiness of a tubeless tire is considered by some to be an advantage, as the mandatory sealant is able to seal small punctures. If the ability to seal small punctures is something you desire, sealant also can be used within a traditional inner tube.

alcjphil

Actually, many tubeless tires can be used without sealant. The Hutchinson Fusion5 All Season tires on my road bike will hold air sufficiently well without sealant that I can ride them for 3-4 days before I have to reinflate them. Adding sealant to these tires doesn't change this by much, but it does provide added flat resistance from punctures

Barry2 

I'd much rather top up sealent every 2-4 months in the comfort of my home and on my schedule, than randomly fix flats beside the road.

Pays your money, takes your choice!

Barry

tFUnK

Yeah, that's true. While I don't recall seeing the Cosmic Carbones until the mid-00s, the original alloy Cosmic wheels indeed predated the Ksyrium. Those alloy Cosmics looked so cool but were so heavy. Point taken about those early HEDs and Zipps - I guess I've thought about them as tri or TT wheels back then and not as road wheels, but maybe that's just my perception. How times have changed.

tFUnK

If I raced I would not hesitate to race on GP5ks, that's for sure. Seeing as many rode some version of the tubeless GP5ks in Paris-Roubaix last weekend, I think my comment about them being a "training tire" may not be totally accurate. I guess that was a carryover from the GP4k days - they were marketed as training tires in an era when the pros (and maybe serious amateurs) were racing tubulars.

terrymorse 

The trend is to reduce the weight of tubeless tires, so manufacturers are now removing the butyl liner (essentially a butyl inner tubed bonded to the inside of the tire) that helped keep the air in.

Continental designates their leaky Grand Prix 5000 tire without a liner "tubeless ready" (TR), as opposed to their less leaky "tubeless" (TL). They no longer make their tubeless (TL) version.

tFUnK

I guess one needs to determine, based on the frequency of punctures on the road, whether they find changing x roadside flats per year is more or less tolerable than topping up sealant 2-4x per year. I personally don't ride tubeless on my road bikes because my frames limit me to 25mm tires (so I'm riding relatively high psi by today's standards), and I tend to switch out tires between bikes on occasion just for fun, but I know that tubeless has come a long way since the 90s in MTB applications, and probably makes a lot of sense for those riding 28mm tires or wider. I'm still skeptical about 25mm tubeless setups due to the higher psi I would need at my weight, but perhaps that's unfounded.

zandoval 

Getting a new set of shoes for your bike sounds fine. Often it's not just the weight. Sometimes just upgrading some little thing that is not even significant in weight or function can make your ride faster...

Remember the streamers? Sure... They added weight, but man they made ya fast...



off the net

bbbean 

If you opt for a 40-60mm deep wheelset, you'll notice the aero advantage right away. You don't have to race to appreciate being more aero, being able to go further on the same effort, or being able to go a little faster when you want. It isn't a night and day difference, but you'll notice it.

The question is properly is "is it worth the price?" Only you can answer that. Everyone with carbon wheels already answered it for themselves.

Eric F 

This ^^^

I added a little sealant one of the tires on my gravel bike before my ride yesterday. It took about 2 minutes. Maybe less.