A Fake 3Rensho?
12-31-22, 11:49 PM
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A Fake 3Rensho?
I’m on Craigslist as I usually do and stumbled upon this. Asking 400 dollars.
Any 3Rensho experts out there?
https://sarasota.craigslist.org/bik/d/sarasota-nice-old-bicycle/7572672065.html
Any 3Rensho experts out there?
https://sarasota.craigslist.org/bik/d/sarasota-nice-old-bicycle/7572672065.html
01-01-23, 01:26 AM
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I'm not an expert, but I believe there is reason to be suspect. It is interesting that it is a near copy, paint wise, of a 3Rensho posted on Classic Rendezvous. I bet someone can I.D. this one. Bridgestone?
01-01-23, 06:11 AM
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01-01-23, 06:30 AM
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another one with the same fork crown and what looks to me to be the same seat clamp and lugs
https://www.pinterest.com/pin/368169338257265407/
https://www.pinterest.com/pin/368169338257265407/
01-01-23, 07:02 AM
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That one is certainly worth closer examination. If I were in the market I’d be on the road to check it out.
Some of the frame details look a little suspect, I would ask for close up photos of the seat lug, and other lugs, dropout/stays.
There was a lot of variation in frame details over the years
Some of the frame details look a little suspect, I would ask for close up photos of the seat lug, and other lugs, dropout/stays.
There was a lot of variation in frame details over the years
Last edited by satbuilder; 01-01-23 at 07:24 AM.
01-01-23, 07:27 AM
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another one with the same fork crown and what looks to me to be the same seat clamp and lugs
https://www.pinterest.com/pin/368169338257265407/
https://www.pinterest.com/pin/368169338257265407/
Seat cluster and paint are different on this one, and this had a braze-on FD, the Op's does not (FWIW, this looks like an old Yellow Jersey, Madison, WI photo) . The OP's is not quite as nice, perhaps a slightly lesser model?
Not sure on the authenticity of the OPs find, but it seems a pretty elaborate fake (all those decals?) if it were a fake, and to what end? For the asking price it is certainly worth looking into -- you are not going to be risking much -- part are worth about 70% +/- of the asking price. If it's your size go look at it and take it for a ride -- IMHO it is not likely a fake, and if it is it would be an interesting story that in and of itself would be worth it if it rode well.
01-01-23, 07:30 AM
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FWIW, here's a photo of the bike OP was asking about (in case the link dies) I lightened the exposure of the CL ad photo.
01-01-23, 08:31 AM
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Does the serial format match up to any known ones?
I think it's hard to get a good return on your investment taking a decent quality Japanese frameset and turning into a highend brand and only selling it for the price of the kit on the bike.
I think I'd buy it, although with the knowledge I might be buying a Nishiki, SR or Centurion (I just picked three brands at random) because I could likely get most of my money back reselling it as kit and frame.
I think it's hard to get a good return on your investment taking a decent quality Japanese frameset and turning into a highend brand and only selling it for the price of the kit on the bike.
I think I'd buy it, although with the knowledge I might be buying a Nishiki, SR or Centurion (I just picked three brands at random) because I could likely get most of my money back reselling it as kit and frame.
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“One morning you wake up, the girl is gone, the bikes are gone, all that's left behind is a pair of old tires and a tube of tubular glue, all squeezed out"
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“One morning you wake up, the girl is gone, the bikes are gone, all that's left behind is a pair of old tires and a tube of tubular glue, all squeezed out"
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01-01-23, 09:14 AM
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A questionable piece would be the drop out. The outer face of the drop out has flash rust which typically shows when metal is sanded down and then nothing is done to prep it from corroding. You can also see the masking off with tape errors.
I may have to pass on this one. I would hate to have my first 3Rensho not be a 3Rensho.
I may have to pass on this one. I would hate to have my first 3Rensho not be a 3Rensho.
Last edited by Yelbom15; 01-01-23 at 09:17 AM.
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01-01-23, 09:14 AM
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01-01-23, 09:23 AM
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Yellow Jersey was the North American importer of 3Rensho frames. You could ask Andy Muzi for his assessment: mail@yellowjersey.org
01-01-23, 10:06 AM
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01-01-23, 10:06 AM
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To fake one at that price point and with those good parts makes zero sense. I'd be driving right now. I would not pester the seller with a bunch of questions, that just puts you at the bottom of the line.
Once in person, inspect carefully and decide. Parts alone make it a low risk/no risk buy.
Once in person, inspect carefully and decide. Parts alone make it a low risk/no risk buy.
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01-01-23, 10:44 AM
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Does the serial format match up to any known ones?
I think it's hard to get a good return on your investment taking a decent quality Japanese frameset and turning into a highend brand and only selling it for the price of the kit on the bike.
I think I'd buy it, although with the knowledge I might be buying a Nishiki, SR or Centurion (I just picked three brands at random) because I could likely get most of my money back reselling it as kit and frame.
I think it's hard to get a good return on your investment taking a decent quality Japanese frameset and turning into a highend brand and only selling it for the price of the kit on the bike.
I think I'd buy it, although with the knowledge I might be buying a Nishiki, SR or Centurion (I just picked three brands at random) because I could likely get most of my money back reselling it as kit and frame.
https://www.bikeforums.net/classic-v...ber-guide.html
01-01-23, 11:34 AM
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What exactly is amusing about my question?
According to the link...... RENSHO (Japan): Insufficient data.
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“One morning you wake up, the girl is gone, the bikes are gone, all that's left behind is a pair of old tires and a tube of tubular glue, all squeezed out"
Sugar "Kane" Kowalczyk
“One morning you wake up, the girl is gone, the bikes are gone, all that's left behind is a pair of old tires and a tube of tubular glue, all squeezed out"
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01-01-23, 12:38 PM
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That serial number format DOES NOT match the one on my 1986 SRE. The dropouts are not 3R either. I do not know why someone would spend this much money to fake something and sell it at that price. However, I have only owned/worked on 4-5 in my life (all mid-1980's). It MIGHT be an earlier model (late 1970's/early 80's) with updated components. 3Rensho was using his own lugs by the 1980's, but I do not know when he started doing this.
Muzi would know if there were other SN sequences.
Muzi would know if there were other SN sequences.
Last edited by balindamood; 01-01-23 at 12:42 PM.
01-01-23, 03:53 PM
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I ran into a listing in Sarasota on FB MP a few minutes ago for a Pug and seller had same first name as for this “old Japanese bike.” I asked if this was also his and he responded yes and that it’s a replica 3Rensho hence the price. He said it’s based on a Centurion and is pretty light that he’s had for a few years and that it’s a good riding bike. Probably would have been best to note this in the ad but….mystery solved.
01-01-23, 04:11 PM
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Just came across this. The dome ends on the stays tell me no 3Rensho.
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01-01-23, 04:48 PM
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Your question and post was a good one. I have a SR and a few Centurions. I think you are spot on. Your post just seemed like the one to quote so I could mention 3RENSNO.....which I think is a humorous name for a non authentic copy of the real thing.
01-01-23, 05:12 PM
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I ran into a listing in Sarasota on FB MP a few minutes ago for a Pug and seller had same first name as for this “old Japanese bike.” I asked if this was also his and he responded yes and that it’s a replica 3Rensho hence the price. He said it’s based on a Centurion and is pretty light that he’s had for a few years and that it’s a good riding bike. Probably would have been best to note this in the ad but….mystery solved.
01-01-23, 05:16 PM
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I’ve got to say…that is one hell of a replica. And for someone to do that much work must really like 3Rensho.
But yes, stating it’s an “old Japanese bike” on his ad is great marketing…
But yes, stating it’s an “old Japanese bike” on his ad is great marketing…
01-01-23, 05:27 PM
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The 85 Prestige, IM and Elite RS(if it was produced that year had seat stays with "Centurion" on the caps.
Last edited by seypat; 01-02-23 at 06:50 AM.
01-01-23, 05:52 PM
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I ran into a listing in Sarasota on FB MP a few minutes ago for a Pug and seller had same first name as for this “old Japanese bike.” I asked if this was also his and he responded yes and that it’s a replica 3Rensho hence the price. He said it’s based on a Centurion and is pretty light that he’s had for a few years and that it’s a good riding bike. Probably would have been best to note this in the ad but….mystery solved.
01-02-23, 01:16 AM
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Does the serial format match up to any known ones?
I think it's hard to get a good return on your investment taking a decent quality Japanese frameset and turning into a highend brand and only selling it for the price of the kit on the bike.
I think I'd buy it, although with the knowledge I might be buying a Nishiki, SR or Centurion (I just picked three brands at random) because I could likely get most of my money back reselling it as kit and frame.
I think it's hard to get a good return on your investment taking a decent quality Japanese frameset and turning into a highend brand and only selling it for the price of the kit on the bike.
I think I'd buy it, although with the knowledge I might be buying a Nishiki, SR or Centurion (I just picked three brands at random) because I could likely get most of my money back reselling it as kit and frame.