3x drivetrain on road bike
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Whenever I've dropped a chain [ever], it's always been the result of a FD shift. Even pros drop their chain on occasion when front shifting. It was a real issue on mountain bikes and probably one of the 2 main drivers for them to move almost exclusively to 1x. The other being 11 and 12-speed super wide-range cassettes and less need for a high top speed. All my mountain bikes since 2014 have been 1x and there's certainly no going back there!
I still tolerate a 2x drivetrain on my road bikes, but don't consider it an ideal solution having to switch between two overlapping gear ranges. To be fair I've only had 2 or 3 chain drops in the last couple of years over many thousands of miles, but still it's annoying and nobody really enjoys the awkward step change between front rings. We accept it for what it is.
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So how do you propose solving this fundamental problem? Hub gearing is an elegant solution because it totally avoids the problem of chainring size differentials.
Whenever I've dropped a chain [ever], it's always been the result of a FD shift. Even pros drop their chain on occasion when front shifting. It was a real issue on mountain bikes and probably one of the 2 main drivers for them to move almost exclusively to 1x. The other being 11 and 12-speed super wide-range cassettes and less need for a high top speed. All my mountain bikes since 2014 have been 1x and there's certainly no going back there!
I still tolerate a 2x drivetrain on my road bikes, but don't consider it an ideal solution having to switch between two overlapping gear ranges. To be fair I've only had 2 or 3 chain drops in the last couple of years over many thousands of miles, but still it's annoying and nobody really enjoys the awkward step change between front rings. We accept it for what it is.
Whenever I've dropped a chain [ever], it's always been the result of a FD shift. Even pros drop their chain on occasion when front shifting. It was a real issue on mountain bikes and probably one of the 2 main drivers for them to move almost exclusively to 1x. The other being 11 and 12-speed super wide-range cassettes and less need for a high top speed. All my mountain bikes since 2014 have been 1x and there's certainly no going back there!
I still tolerate a 2x drivetrain on my road bikes, but don't consider it an ideal solution having to switch between two overlapping gear ranges. To be fair I've only had 2 or 3 chain drops in the last couple of years over many thousands of miles, but still it's annoying and nobody really enjoys the awkward step change between front rings. We accept it for what it is.
#128
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If you really do prefer the idea of having less rear cogs and more front chainrings then I guess you are out of luck as the rest of the market is rapidly going the other way with virtually no chance of a U-turn at this point.
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Often when you shift the front, you don't actually want to be shifting 4 gears at that point. It usually just means you've run out of range. That's why electronic drivetrains give you the option of compensating a front shift by shifting the rear mech at the same time to reduce the step change. Not that shifting 4 steps on the rear is any hardship with a modern drivetrain. Again you can program them to shift multiple gears with a long press. It's all pretty seamless, but you still notice the relatively clunky front shifts and there is always a small chance of dropping the chain.
If you really do prefer the idea of having less rear cogs and more front chainrings then I guess you are out of luck as the rest of the market is rapidly going the other way with virtually no chance of a U-turn at this point.
If you really do prefer the idea of having less rear cogs and more front chainrings then I guess you are out of luck as the rest of the market is rapidly going the other way with virtually no chance of a U-turn at this point.
Your'e talking to people like they're all newbie riders. You don't think when I only want to shift 1 or 2 gears I don't shift the rear? I encounter lots of terrain where it changes enough quickly that 1 or 2 shifts of the rear are not enough. Maybe in the days of 2 or 3 tooth differences between rear cogs. But with 1 tooth differences a couple of shifts in the back gets you 2 teeth, not 4 or 6. That's not much when the terrain changes drastically. 1 or 2 front shifts and maybe 1 back works better for me. Then I can do the same when the terrain goes back where it was in the next 1/4 mile. Otherwise, I'm constantly shifting the back 5-6 shifts or more back and forth. I also know that I'm out of luck, but that's life.
Last edited by seypat; 05-31-22 at 12:21 PM.
#130
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What does this mean, other than "Ha-Ha! You're SOL, forever! Nyah, Nyah, Nyah!"?
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That's true. I like a lot of riders, have become semi hoarders. As long as 110/74 BCD chainrings are made, we can make it work. Same for 86 BCD. There are 130 cranks out there with holes drilled for an 86BCD 3rd ring. Or the 5 hole 86BCD cranks that can be most any combo of double/triple down to 26 or 28T.
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https://www.theatlantic.com/photo/20...cycles/556268/
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The market is all over the place. We'll make do somehow.
https://www.theatlantic.com/photo/20...cycles/556268/
https://www.theatlantic.com/photo/20...cycles/556268/
Please understand that 'the market' is referring to enthusiast bike shop level road bike brands in Western countries. 'The market' can refer to many things- MTB, utility, e-bike, upright transport style, etc etc. What you linked is not in the same market as what has been discussed in the thread.
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#135
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Your'e talking to people like they're all newbie riders. You don't think when I only want to shift 1 or 2 gears I don't shift the rear? I encounter lots of terrain where it changes enough quickly that 1 or 2 shifts of the rear are not enough. Maybe in the days of 2 or 3 tooth differences between rear cogs. But with 1 tooth differences a couple of shifts in the back gets you 2 teeth. Not 4 or 6. That's not much when the terrain changes drastically. 1 or 2 front shifts and maybe 1 back works better for me. Then I can do the same when the terrain goes back where it was in the next 1/4 mile. Otherwise, I'm constantly shifting the back 5-6 shifts or more back and forth. I also know that I'm out of luck, but that's life.
Some people complain about the gaps between rear cogs being too wide with a 2x drivetrain and yet you claim they are too narrow? It's almost like you don't even know what you are talking about.
This is what a modern 2x road drivetrain actually looks like:-
https://www.gear-calculator.com/?GR=...N=MPH&DV=speed
Last edited by PeteHski; 05-31-22 at 12:30 PM.
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The market is all over the place. We'll make do somehow.
https://www.theatlantic.com/photo/20...cycles/556268/
https://www.theatlantic.com/photo/20...cycles/556268/
Ebikes are great transportation. I hope to never need one. I met a guy at the top of a pass last weekend who knows a 90 y.o. woman who still rides centuries. Centenarians are our fastest growing age group. He was probably in his early 30s. He mentioned how odd it seems that most of the endurance riders he knows are older folks. Seems to me we last a long time if we avoid injury. A section of the market might just come around to that idea. It doesn't seem like I'll live long enough to wear my bike out. It still rides like new. Epoxy/carbon laminate is amazing stuff. I've stripped off all that garish paint and ride it nude now. Looks quite modern except for the crankset.
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#139
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Do you actually own a modern drivetrain? Genuine question.
Some people complain about the gaps between rear cogs being too wide with a 2x drivetrain and yet you claim they are too narrow? It's almost like you don't even know what you are talking about.
This is what a modern 2x road drivetrain actually looks like:-
https://www.gear-calculator.com/?GR=...N=MPH&DV=speed
Some people complain about the gaps between rear cogs being too wide with a 2x drivetrain and yet you claim they are too narrow? It's almost like you don't even know what you are talking about.
This is what a modern 2x road drivetrain actually looks like:-
https://www.gear-calculator.com/?GR=...N=MPH&DV=speed
#140
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I own lots of bikes. Have tried 2X everything from 2x5 to 2x10 and 3x5 to 3x10. With a 110/74 or an 86BCD and 2 lengths of the same BB spindle, I can try out any gear combo I want. Always come back to the 3X. No 10 speed now. It wasn't adding anything to the mix. With a 3rd ring on front I can run a standard RD unless I want a 30t in the back. 52/40-42/30 and a 12-28 7speed is a hard combo to beat. 2 steps to the 18, 3 to the 24 and a 28. 8 speed just usually added a single step in the small gears. Same for 9 and 10 unless you want more on the low end. I do have a 11-34 9 speed cassette that is handy. The best part is 5/6 and some 7s for the 120 hubs. 126mm will handle 5-7 and 130 8-10. I could ride 10+ bikes with only 3 sets of wheels if I desired.
11 Speed electronic has been around almost a decade and 12 speed electronic is on its 4th season.
I have everything from 5 speed on a Campy equipped 1972 Masi GC to triples on touring bikes, Mtb, and a tandem as well as 8 speed Sti, 10 speed Sti, 11 speed SRAM mechanical, 11 speed etap and 12 speed etap. The last two would be modern in my opinion. Of course, there are 13 speed out there too but I have not ridden them.
If you have not ridden modern systems, how can you denigrate them?
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Do you actually own a modern drivetrain? Genuine question.
Some people complain about the gaps between rear cogs being too wide with a 2x drivetrain and yet you claim they are too narrow? It's almost like you don't even know what you are talking about.
This is what a modern 2x road drivetrain actually looks like:-
https://www.gear-calculator.com/?GR=...N=MPH&DV=speed
Some people complain about the gaps between rear cogs being too wide with a 2x drivetrain and yet you claim they are too narrow? It's almost like you don't even know what you are talking about.
This is what a modern 2x road drivetrain actually looks like:-
https://www.gear-calculator.com/?GR=...N=MPH&DV=speed
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I wouldn't consider 10 speed cassette with mechanical shifters modern.
11 Speed electronic has been around almost a decade and 12 speed electronic is on its 4th season.
I have everything from 5 speed on a Campy equipped 1972 Masi GC to triples on touring bikes, Mtb, and a tandem as well as 8 speed Sti, 10 speed Sti, 11 speed SRAM mechanical, 11 speed etap and 12 speed etap. The last two would be modern in my opinion. Of course, there are 13 speed out there too but I have not ridden them.
If you have not ridden modern systems, how can you denigrate them?
11 Speed electronic has been around almost a decade and 12 speed electronic is on its 4th season.
I have everything from 5 speed on a Campy equipped 1972 Masi GC to triples on touring bikes, Mtb, and a tandem as well as 8 speed Sti, 10 speed Sti, 11 speed SRAM mechanical, 11 speed etap and 12 speed etap. The last two would be modern in my opinion. Of course, there are 13 speed out there too but I have not ridden them.
If you have not ridden modern systems, how can you denigrate them?
Last edited by seypat; 05-31-22 at 01:11 PM.
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Last edited by seypat; 05-31-22 at 01:13 PM.
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So how do you propose solving this fundamental problem? Hub gearing is an elegant solution because it totally avoids the problem of chainring size differentials.
Whenever I've dropped a chain [ever], it's always been the result of a FD shift. Even pros drop their chain on occasion when front shifting. It was a real issue on mountain bikes and probably one of the 2 main drivers for them to move almost exclusively to 1x. The other being 11 and 12-speed super wide-range cassettes and less need for a high top speed. All my mountain bikes since 2014 have been 1x and there's certainly no going back there!
I still tolerate a 2x drivetrain on my road bikes, but don't consider it an ideal solution having to switch between two overlapping gear ranges. To be fair I've only had 2 or 3 chain drops in the last couple of years over many thousands of miles, but still it's annoying and nobody really enjoys the awkward step change between front rings. We accept it for what it is.
Whenever I've dropped a chain [ever], it's always been the result of a FD shift. Even pros drop their chain on occasion when front shifting. It was a real issue on mountain bikes and probably one of the 2 main drivers for them to move almost exclusively to 1x. The other being 11 and 12-speed super wide-range cassettes and less need for a high top speed. All my mountain bikes since 2014 have been 1x and there's certainly no going back there!
I still tolerate a 2x drivetrain on my road bikes, but don't consider it an ideal solution having to switch between two overlapping gear ranges. To be fair I've only had 2 or 3 chain drops in the last couple of years over many thousands of miles, but still it's annoying and nobody really enjoys the awkward step change between front rings. We accept it for what it is.
and dropping chains? sure, have had it happen before. usually due to poor adjustments but more often (for me) it has happened in conjunction with a bumpy road surface, still a pretty rare thing though.
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Now compare that to a 3X 8/9/10 with the same range and see which one you have to shift more to get to the 2 outer spaces on each end of your range. Or riding loops on 3 or 4 gears depending on the terrain without a lot of shifting. Make sure you include shifting the FD when you can. That's what's important to me. Single steps, not so much
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Because the "derailing" of the rear derailleur occurs on the non-tension side, it's a much gentler (less forceful) operation and allows delicate refinements like chain-slack take-up.
The "track the sprocket sizes" thing is due to the "slant-parallelogram" (the pulleys are "along for the ride").
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Derailleur
In 1964, Suntour invented the slant-parallelogram rear derailleur, which let the jockey pulley maintain a more constant distance from the different sized sprockets, resulting in easier shifting. Once the patents expired, other manufacturers adopted this design, at least for their better models,[10] and the "slant parallelogram" remains the current rear derailleur pattern.
No, he just used "cog" instead of "sprocket" (the word you happened to use).
What's the difference between "tracking the sprocket sizes" and "cog tracking"?
He provided the definition (which, since you removed it from the reply, you didn't think was important but complained about it's absence),
In any case, the pulleys are not what is providing the "tracking the sprocket sizing".
Last edited by njkayaker; 05-31-22 at 01:35 PM.
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So your idea of a great drivetrain is to have large gaps at the rear and make big jumps on the front to minimise the number of shifts. mmm.... ok
#149
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Haha, what?!?! 10sp isnt modern? Tiagra is on carbon road bikes that cost $2500-2600 from major brands. Its on $1800 alloy frames. There is hydraulic braking, thru axles, carbon frames...but 10sp isnt modern?
10sp is not cutting edge. 10sp is not leading tech. But 10sp is very much modern and current.
This is a classic time to use the Inigo Montoya meme. "You keep using that word..."
https://www.specialized.com/us/en/ro...=293288-184477 $2600
https://www.specialized.com/us/en/ta...=293448-175300 $2500
https://www.cannondale.com/en-us/bik...-carbon-tiagra $2625
#150
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Interesting. I'm the opposite. I don't mind frequent shifting, though of course I mind it more on my C&V bikes with the DT shifters. My rides have a lot of gradient changes and I could no more ride them in 3 or 4 gears comfortably than I could fly.
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