Koyote

What do the bike's weight and the "self support kit" weight have to do with one another?

By your logic, I should ignore my high cholesterol since my blood pressure is already rather high anyway.

terrymorse 

Has your wife ridden tens of thousands of miles on her hand-built wheels? I have.

Lombard

Not the best analogy unless you are comparing fragile tires with inferior components of a wheel build.

Luck has a lot to do with not getting flats whereas a properly built and stress relieved wheel with quality components should not go out of true unless something catastrophic happens like hitting a pothole that also takes the rider down.

tomato coupe

It's an illustration of the logical fallacy that leads Mr. Morse to conclude that wheels never need truing, because he's never had to do it.

shelbyfv

Yet even a mid-grade (think 105 level) road bike is pushing $3K.

smd4

What's wrong with having an expensive light weight bike? Do you think a high-end racing bike rides exactly the same as a mid-grade bike? And why stop at mid-grade? Why not buy the cheapest low-end bike you can find, and save even more bucks?

Eric F 

Nonsense. You don't have to pin a number on your jersey to justify riding efficiently on a lightweight bicycle. I haven't raced in almost 20 years, but still enjoy every bit of riding a high-performance machine at high speed, and/or on demanding terrain. I ride the kind of bikes I prefer for the variety of conditions I ride because I'm experienced enough to recognize and appreciate the differences between a decent bicycle and a great one. I ride with clipless pedals 100% of the time, on all my regularly-used bikes, because I am comfortable (and prefer) being mechanically connected with my bike, and because being able to pedal with power being applied in different parts of the stroke matters to me.

Who carries 8lbs of repair tools/parts?? That's ridiculousness.

Lombard

He never said that wheels never need trueing. Show me the quote where he said that. He implied, as I said, that a properly built wheel with quality components should not need trueing under normal use.

tomato coupe

Ummmmmm ...

Eric F 

Which of those things will you not take with you on a ride on a mid-grade bike that you think you need to take on a ride on a high-end/lightweight bike?

big john

Ditch the water and the phone.

Seriously, I wouldn't count water as part of a tool kit. I think 2 pounds is plenty of stuff to carry, (pump, tools, tube). Water comes and goes.

elcruxio

I have to say that I agree with the sentiment that wheels really shouldn't be going out of true. None of the wheels I've built have.

But of course there's the element of specs. In order for a wheel to remain true it needs to be specced correctly for tge rider and use case. You can't put a 16/20 spoke superlight aluminum wheelset on a DH rig for a 120kg rider for a weekend at whistler and expect it to stay true. However give that same rider a 24/28 spoke high profile carbon wheelset for general road riding and chances are that the wheelset will not require truing. If said wheelset has veen built correctly.

There's of course some oversimplification as spoke choice etc. play a role but I thought to keep things simple.

big john

I wouldn't say they never need truing but It's not that common. I usually break or wear out the rim before they need truing, although I have had to true a few. Even on the current mtb the rear wheel cracked and had never been trued.

elcruxio

Do you mean ditch the phone from the calculation or altogether?

tomato coupe

And yet, sometimes they do. "Shouldn't" does not mean "doesn't."

terrymorse 

About those wheels that sometimes go out of true: I suggest that it's almost always because they weren't built properly.

Exception 1: A heavy rider on a light wheel with low spoke count might be able to unload the spokes enough to allow the nipple to unscrew, and that will make a wheel go out of true.

Exception 2: Side impact. That's damage.

big john

The first line was sort of a joke. I don't have a phone, so I wouldn't include it in my thinking about weight. I know, it's unbelievable but I've resisted against all manner of ridicule until friends and family have about given up. Maybe I'll get one and then the cycle will start over. Of course, then I would be expected to answer the damn thing.

tomato coupe

You've just invoked the "No true Scotsman" argument:

1. Properly built wheels never need truing.
2. Any wheel that needs truing was not properly built.

elcruxio

Well that is peculiar in this day and age. Not in a bad way. You do you.

I can't leave the phone at home because I have something in the range of tens to hundreds of thousands times more chance to have a need to call an ambulance mid ride than your average joe road cyclist. Luckily I haven't needed to yet but can't say I haven't gotten close.

big john

I've had this scenario occur on a wheel and it kept repeating on the same spoke until I put a bit of Loctite on it.

I have built my own wheels and I'm not that good at it and I don't like doing it. I prefer to pay someone who knows what they are doing.

Eric F 

Maybe you didn't get the memo. People don't actually answer voice calls on their cell phones any more.

big john

Yes, I've seen this. I also don't answer my land line (remember those?) unless I know who it is and I want to talk to them. Lots of spam calls these days.

elcruxio

I don't think the scotsman argument works in these sorts of mechanical components.

1. A bicycle frame should never need repair by welding
2. Any bicycle frame that needs repair by welding wasn't built properly.

Or maybe it does.

But if a wheel has been built correctly, there really aren't any places where the wheel could go out of adjustment, excepting deformations ie. damage. If the nipples don't unscrew the wheel shouldn't be able to go out of true. And if you hit a pothole that completely unloads spokes, well the properly built wheel has threadlocker for those situations.

Eric F 

We dropped our land line at home a few years ago. My cell phone is my "home" phone now. Zero regrets on that move.

terrymorse 

Yeah, wheel building takes patience and practice to get it right. I learned as a pre-teen from my dad. That was over 50 years ago (geez!).

Wheel building also takes a lot of time. I prefer re-tensioning a factory wheel to building one from scratch. It's quicker.