Black wallnut 

Including co-ceo. Hopefully thye are able to continue with good service.

https://www.cyclingnews.com/news/zwi...rce-reduction/

Jughed

I wonder if the "investments" they are talking about are the Zwift trainers and one year free membership that's included with them.

They have to be losing money on the trainers - $600 for the trainer, $150 free membership, free shipping... It takes at least a year to see any cash coming in from the new users.

I now have two Zwift trainers and two free accounts in my house. My FIL bought a Zwift trainer and he has a free account.

tempocyclist

I'd say they probably are going negative on the trainers. I wouldn't be surprised to see them get out of the trainer business completely, and open up the Hub/Click single-gear Bluetooth protocol for other trainer manufacturers and training platforms to connect to.

spelger

started reading the link...speaking of tron bike...don't know what the project is but i recently started another 30 day trial and the tron bike appears to be gone. at least i was unable to choose it. but i still see them being ridden. what's that all about?

PeteHski

You have to complete the Everest challenge (or whatever it’s called) to get access to the in-game Tron bike. The Tron bike project they are referring to in the article is probably their abandoned Smart bike trainer.

spelger

i was riding the tron bike for half a year but at some time became a bit bored with it so changed it up. thought i'd go back but no longer there. probably would need to do the challenge again. not happening.

PeteHski

I do have the Tron bike, but I rarely use it. I prefer the more realistic looking bikes. I have the Canyon Aeroad with DT Swiss wheels for mixed roads and the Canyon Ultimate CFR with lightweight Meilenstein wheels (won on the AdZ lottery!) for the big climbs. Marginal gains, lol.

unterhausen

I think the tron bike is ugly, if I ever manage to earn one I'd have to go to another view so I didn't have to look at it all the time as I'm puttering around in the 1w/kg group ride.

I have wondered if they should augment their route system somehow so that long-time users could earn more route badges. That's probably pretty far down the list of things that would drive more engagement though.

Viich

Nice prediction - they just announced the Kickr Core Zwift edition with a Zwift Cog and Click.....

BTinNYC 

It is! Plus it's got some strange handlebars, Tri or something. Traded it in for regular road bike, made of 1s and 0s.

tempocyclist

And as predicted, the Zwift Hub has been discontinued.

https://www.dcrainmaker.com/2024/02/...continued.html

DM me for next week's lottery numbers... 🤪

Polaris OBark

They should institute a pay per ride plan.

blacknbluebikes 

So, imagine you're sitting on a really successful new business, growing organically; people really like your product. New users are loading like crazy. Some cat in Amsterdam with a website is getting 100,000 hits a week and started selling maps of your virtual world for $25. Then a bunch of VC Bro's in matching gray Patagonia vests drop $450 MILLION DOLLARS in your lap. Big names that you read about in the WSJ. Life looks great - you've got a $B valuation, Covid is keeping everyone home, and people can't even find a bike to buy. Then they start telling you a lot of catchy phrases - you! You're hearing it. "Unicorn - you're a unicorn!" "Move fast and break things!" "Get big or get out!" "Buy as much talent as you can find!" And, suddenly, you have all these people on your new Board that have no direct experience whatsoever, but they worked at Lululemon and Twitter, so they're probably going to be incredibly helpful, 'cause, I mean, Lululemon - yeah, man, woo woo. So next, you hire some experienced managers. And each of them brings an entourage of sycophants who each need to build a tiny empire. "Put that money to work, fast," scream the vesty Bro's. "WE NEED TO SEE THE GROWTH" starts to echo in the board meeting. "You've got to broaden your thinking. Make a bike. Make a trainer. Make a broach or a pterodactyll." But, what they are not saying in the boardroom, but back in their own VC secret hide-out, is "our internal IRR expects to 3x to 5x on invested money in four years, or else we don't love them anymore." "We see that private markets are developing nicely and what we put on the books at 125x earnings, maybe we pair that down at 50x and cut exposure." Then, to you, they say, "While we know you still have 200 mm of committed capital to you, we're going to invoke the clause that lets us pull back on that a bit, so your remaining line is $40mm until we see how the growth vector develops." And, gulp, you've got a lot of staff, including some very expensive executives. Hmm. What to do? what to do... (rant over)
"

choddo

"pare"

Otherwise, spot on

MinnMan

For some of us, winter life would be hard to imagine if Zwift were to go under.

I agree that Zwift is a viable stable business, but it's hard to see how they continue a growth trajectory. Many thousands of people are paying monthly fees, so they do have cash flow. I guess what matters is how much debt they have to service.
I think it's good news that Eric Min is back as sole CEO, though.

PeteHski

I think ultimately it’s a pretty limited niche market. Certainly a viable business within that niche, but I can’t really see how it can be grown into something much bigger? At the end of the day it is a product of interest only to a relatively small subset of keen cyclists. Attracting the running crowd has obvious growth potential, which Zwift have tried to capture, but I don’t see many runners in the Zwift world.

So maybe Zwift is better off as a relatively small streamlined company with limited growth ambitions?

zacster

Pretty limited indeed. I try to explain what I have to casual cyclists and they just don't understand. The first question is always "did you get a Peloton?" Then I explain the trainer and they are totally lost at that point and I give up. They think exercise bike with screens like at the gym. Never mind the interoperability of all the components, the trainer, the sensors, the computer, power meters, the handlebar computer, the apps. It is all too hard to fathom, even though they live their lives otherwise completely connected.

choddo

I don’t think it will ever see the kind of growth it hit in “lockdown”

But I think they can grow a viable business off the back of price rises and attracting new cyclers while enough of the current crop stick around. I really find it the most motivating training platform but some of that is due to a bunch of friends teaming up on ZRL.
Retention will be critical hence Streaks and annual discounts.
Welcome to attention deficit economics.

IndieVelo will cause them some grief within a year.

rm -rf

I know a lot of cyclists that got on Zwift in the last few years. I think they'll stay on it, for the bad weather riding and some of them for the Zwift challenges.
It's going to be a steady, profitable company, but not a rocket ship growth thing at all.

spelger

not holding my breath.

choddo

The pace that thing is being developed at, it's going to have an impact on market share imho but I don't think it will be a major disruptor in terms of revenue. Regular zwifters are too invested, they'd need a very compelling reason to move. I think the serious racers might switch if gets some traction with a race organising body because of the anticheat foundations.

unterhausen

Zwift losing the UCI had to hurt them some, although people don't really talk about it much.

MinnMan

My understanding is that IndieVelo is only a PC-based interface? - just MacOS and Windows. For the many of us who connect with phones, tablets, etc., that's a big negative.

choddo

Android too. iOS on the way.

unterhausen

I think zwift really has screwed up with not combatting cheaters enough. I doubt that is a significant part of their user base, but it might cause enough of a migration that people notice.

I went through a short phase of watching videos about zwift on youtube, and the number one subject seems to be cheaters.