rm -rf

Gearing on Zwift:
When I started using my Kickr with Zwift, it seemed way harder than the same wattage riding outdoors. I think I had to get used to the resistance all the way around the full pedal stroke. That took a week or two of rides. Now, the better pedal stroke for training also works great when riding outdoors.

Perhaps this doesn't apply to your Neo trainer, but the Kicker can bog down with a low cadence. Slowing the cadence, the resistance increases, sometimes until it stalls out. The fix is to just stop pedaling for a couple of seconds. The resistance resets. I try to avoid very low cadences, spinning is better.

Cassette:
You want a cassette with the same number of gears as your outdoor rear wheel has, 9, 10, or 11 speeds. So your shifters will work correctly. I don't think the gearing range is too critical on Zwift -- a 11-34 or 11-28 would both be fine, for instance. You shift gears for climbing or fast flat riding as expected.

Zwift also has "ERG Mode". This is mostly used in workouts: The workout has a series of wattage numbers for each part of the workout. In ERG mode, any steady cadence will stay at that wattage, the trainer adjusts it's resistance to match the gearing being used. So I just put the chain at the middle of the cassette and pedal the whole workout there. Quiet and smooth pedaling.

For example, the workout shifts from a warmup 100w to 150w for the next 5 minutes. I just keep pedaling at my usual 85-95 rpm, pushing harder when it jumps to 150w. It's fantastic for "Zone 2" rides, I can just keep pedaling and staying at my Zone2 watts number. No hills, downhills, or stop signs to deal with. If I want a faster cadence while in Zone2, I just pedal a bit harder, and the watts jump up for a few seconds, then the trainer adjusts, and it's back at the correct watts with the new higher cadence. So nice. (The workouts happen in the Zwift worlds, with the correct watts no matter what the terrain happens to be--flat or steep climbs. You can't fall over in Zwift, even at 1 mph.)

Zwift "Trainer difficulty"
In the Zwift settings, Trainer Difficulty isn't explained very well. I find it very difficult to ride in Zwift at "100%"--too easy to get bogged down, and a too-slow cadence. Instead, I'm usually around 35-45%. So climbing hills, it's like I'm using much lower gearing, allowing a fast cadence even on steeper climbs. It's still the same wattage to climb at comparable speeds, just a much faster cadence.

Zwift on windows:
I have a quite slow internet connection, and Zwift in 4K works fine. The 3D scenes are stored in my computer, so the amount of data transfer while riding is quite low.
I have a nice graphics card and a 28 inch 4K monitor. so I maxed out the Zwift graphics settings. Lower graphics ignore shadows and scene details, for example.
I find my PC fans are running while on Zwift. The GPU and CPU are both working continuously while the app is running.


bluetooth:
I had a lot of trouble using bluetooth to connect my Kickr to the PC, with lots of dropouts and failures.
Now it works great: My desktop PC box has two screw-in antenna terminals in the back, and came with a short-cabled 5 inch antenna. That sits on top of the PC box now, and the bluetooth is working great.

Zwift companion phone app
You will want to run this app -- it's a secondary control and display that is very useful. It's a bluetooth connection to my PC, simple to set up.
It uses quite a lot of battery. I usually plug in a USB power to my phone while riding.

My phone is running this app and also doing bluetooth Spotify while riding. Nice.

South Pa

Thanks for all the helpful information! I think once I have the trainer and am setting up, the right methods will present themselves if my current setup needs help, or, of course, I'll ask here.

I am ordering a Shimano HG201-9, 9 spd 11-36, which Trek says is the cassette for my bike (was HG200). and am looking at cassette removal tools. Any recommendation for tools that will fit the bill? Some seem to have trouble with the splines on the lock ring removal tool, etc. Quality is always a goal.

zacster

Park Tool FR5.2 should be the one.

South Pa

Thanks, zac. I ordered the 5.2G, which comes with a 5mm pin...Shimano says 5mm is the correct pin size for my cassette. Much appreciated.

South Pa

I'm happy to say that the Neo 3m is now available in the US. I just placed my order.

I feel fortunate to have stumbled across this site. Thanks to all in this thread. I'll likely be back as more questions occur. Again - thanks!

rm -rf

You need a "chain whip" too. when unscrewing the cassette, the hub spins freely in that direction. The chain whip keeps the cassette from turning while you loosen the locknut.
When installing, no chain whip is needed, since the cassette is stopped from turning in that direction.

for your occasional use, any inexpensive chain whip will work.
https://www.google.com/search?newwin...cycle&tbm=shop

That Park tool FR5.2 is good. Ones with no center pin can come loose while attempting to unscrew the lockring. I used to install my quick release on top of the hollow style tool, to keep the tool from damaging the splines on the lockring.

You will also need an adjustable wrench to go with the lockring tool. (or a 1 inch socket, I think?)
To tighten the lockring on the new cassette: it "clicks" as it gets closer to full tightness. It's supposed to have a torque wrench to tighten, but I find that a 8-10 long handled wrench will tighten it reasonably if I give it a moderately hard pull with 3 fingers. That's a a few more clicks after it starts to be quite hard to turn easily.. No need to crank it down as hard as you can.

~~~~~~~~~~~~
The park tool repair guides are easy to follow. Very useful.
https://www.parktool.com/en-us/blog/...d-installation

scroll down the "3 -- cassette lockring removal to see the chainwhip method.

To install the lockring, it's recommended torque is 40 Nm.

South Pa

Hi rm, and thanks for your comments and info. I already ordered the chain whip and other items a few days ago, and I already have a torque wrench.

That said, I was reading the manual, and it says "you must be familiar with bike tools and cassette maintenance, or you may damage the trainer.". Is that a real risk? It should be said that I've been in an industry that requires high mechanical ability and use of tools for decades.I'm guessing it's a disclaimer to prevent damaged returns.

Thanks for the links also.

Edit - just looking at the Park tool guide you posted...very helpful. Thanks.

choddo

No you’ll be grand

the key thing is to get the threading right on the lockring. It’s very fine.

zacster

If you ever have any questions about bike maintenance, Park Tools has a video about it. They reference their own tools of course and the are very precise on what to do.

South Pa

Just thinking...the cassette I ordered won't be in for another week or so. If I use it with the 11 speed cassette it comes with, will I have any issues?

South Pa

Thanks...just checked that out. Useful.

zacster

Your 9 speed chain won't work with the 11sp cassette. It will be too wide. It may not engage the cogs, or it may jam up.

South Pa

Good to know, Thanks. I guess another week won't hurt.

South Pa

Just checking back in. I actually found an HG201 cassette locally and bought it so that I could get started. I returned the one I ordered from Amazon (which didn't come in until yesterday).

I did have to use a spacer between the cassette and the 3M body.

That said, I'm really impressed with the Neo 3M. As soon as I changed the cassette, I joined Zwift. Between Zwift and Garmin, I'm learning a lot about training. A great example is using ERG mode and one of the Zwift workouts (the one in the initial start up). 25 mins of timed ramping up wattage, ramping down, ramping up to the next higher level, etc produces greater aerobic and anaerobic values than straight out riding at high wattage. I seemed to have gained more from that ride than rides of consistent output on my part, and with less effort. Weird.

I think this trainer and guidance from Zwift, Garmin and other sources is going to make a huge difference in my workouts and commitment to doing them..

One thing I discovered is that a spacing difference or some other factor between bike and trainer messes with the gear indexing a bit...won't hit shift into the highest gear on the trainer. I don't really care about that. I'm guessing because the cassette position on the trainer varies slightly from that of the bike.

At any rate, thanks to all for your contributions to this thread. Your comments helped me deal with getting everything I needed and the 'education' to set it all up correctly.

zacster

You should be able to tweak the cassette position so it matches the wheel. It needs either more or less of a spacer at the rear. The spacing on the cassette itself will already match. If you can get the small cog positioned exactly the same distance from the dropout on both wheel and trainer you'll be good. Even though I have a Shimano cassette on an otherwise Campy system I made it work by adding the spacers so each cog matches the position on the wheel, or close anyway. Only on the two largest cogs is shifting not quite right and that is because the cogs are on a spider and can't be adjusted. You shouldn't have those issues since you are all Shimano..

I should probably do more structured workouts in ERG mode myself as I know they are much more effective than steady efforts. They are the backbone of The Sufferfest workouts, and those are killer and got me much stronger. Alas, at 69 years old I can only do so much. What I liked about Sufferfest is that they aren't quite as regular as in Zwift, which are usually repeats of X on and Y off. Sufferfest simluates real races better, but not everybody likes it. Sufferfest is part of Wahoo X system now and there is a lot more than just suffering. And even though I say this I've stuck mostly to Zwift this year mostly because I can't do the hard workouts anymore. I'm just afraid of my HR, not that I don't get it up in Zwift.

PeteHski

I agree about Sufferfest (Wahoo SYSTM). Their workouts provide a good balance of structured intervals and realistic riding scenarios. I sometimes use SYSTM alongside Zwift for virtual racing and group rides. I’m not so keen on the Zwift workout plans. They are a bit too generic and mostly focused on short term goals. I prefer using SYSTM to build a longer term structured training plan and then utilise Zwift as a substitute for outdoor rides over the winter.

I’m about to try MyWhoosh as an alternative to Zwift. It has the big draw of being free to use! If this goes well then I might well drop Zwift and use MyWhoosh and Wahoo SYSTM.

I also recently tried IndieVelo as yet another free Zwift clone, but I didn’t get on with the look and feel of it. Frame rate was poor using an M1 MacBook Air and I thought the graphics were a bit dated. But certainly worth a look for yourself.

zacster

I'll have to take a look at those. I tried Rouvy and one of the others a few years ago. I've heard they've gotten better but haven't tried again. I liked how Rouvy put you into the video where it was implemented but the hills weren't realistic to me, IOW I couldn't do them!

PeteHski

Rouvy is pretty good. The hill slope gradient profiles are fairly accurate, so it's down to your trainer to provide a realistic level of resistance.

spelger

funnny you see the graphics in indieVelo to be dated. i don't see them to be much diffeent from what i saw in RGT and the current zwift offering. maybe it is my dated laptop that is the culprit though. right about frame rate though, indieVelo lets you print that on the screen and i am usually around 11-13 FPS.

wanted to try mywoosh but was not supported on windows 10. and there is no way i am upgrading to 11.

spelger

don't forget FulGaz, very similar to Rouvy. supposedly higher quality videos in that they are all from a bike, not a car. i did a couple from a car so don't quite get that claim.

PeteHski

Zwift now actually looks pretty slick on my M1 MacBook in 4K. The road textures are convincing and the scenery rendering is detailed and very smooth scrolling. Indie Velo on the other hand looks like a late 1990s 3Dfx rendering ie blurry, unrealistic textures. Reminds me of playing Doom BITD, lol. I wasn’t overly impressed with the graphics in RGT either. I haven’t had chance to try MyWhoosh yet, but the graphics look fairly mundane in the screenshots I’ve seen. But I’m ok with that providing it scrolls smoothly and the road texture isn’t iblurry and irritating.

PeteHski

I tried FulGaz briefly last year and thought the videos were pretty similar to Rouvy. But I had some issues pairing my Polar HRM with FulGAz, so I soon went back to Rouvy for video based routes.

zacster

Yea, Zwift in 4k is pretty nice, and the M1 Mac completely keeps up. There are never any glitches or painting issues. I'm very impressed with the M1 Mac in general, paired with a 4k 27" monitor. It is all new to me even though not the absolute latest.

choddo

How long ago did you try IV? I’m on an M2 MacBook Air and it runs pretty sweetly at 1080p but there were a lot of performance updates in the last month or two. I prefer how they lay the data out to Zwift though I’m not likely to drop the big Z any time soon.

rm -rf

ERG mode workouts and custom workouts

In Zwift, scroll down to "Workout anytime". There's some featured workouts (which is where I first found this one).
Scroll over to "Workouts" to the right of the six featured ones--click it.
Now there's a sidebar for "collections", "custom", "all".

I edited this workout to extend the warmup period to 20 minutes, and saved it as a custom workout. The 5 minute warmup wasn't nearly enough for me. The workout editing is pretty easy to do--drag the colored blocks to make changes.

Anna vander Breggen - "road race"
https://whatsonzwift.com/workouts/30...ggen-road-race
It's 3 sets of 2 minutes of 20% above FTP, 1 minute of 37% above FTP, 15 seconds of 200% above FTP, including one minute of easy pedaling between these, and 5 minutes between sets.
I found the 2 minute interval was the hardest. I can hold the harder effort for 1 minute, and stay seated at a very fast cadence for the 15 second one.
I'm 70 years old, and this was challenging but quite doable for me. Good.
These workouts adjust based on your estimated FTP, and from there can be adjusted up or down by percentage when the workout is running.

Info from the "What's on Zwift" website -- very useful.

My other favorite is a Zone 2 custom workout. I just extended a block of Zone 2 for 60 minutes, with a warmup ramp and a small cooldown ramp. But that didn't work -- I can't stay seated and pedaling continously for 60 minutes! Now the workout is 90 minutes of: blocks of 8 minutes at zone 2, with 30 seconds of "free ride" in between. I can stand up, stretch, etc for 30 seconds without Zwift nagging at me to "Increase power" / "decrease power"