Jughed

Ride your bike, ride your bike... someone said that once.

Update - at this point last year I had already finished 2 12 weeks blocks of intensity. I started too early without enough "base" miles. I gained very little during those training blocks.

Now, I just finished 1400+/- miles of fairly strict Z2. Before that was unstructured free riding all spring and summer. I stretched out my Z2 time and volume - a smart trainer helped immensely with this.

This time last year, after 2 training blocks:
192#
15 min threshold effort = 240w @ 148 BPM*** average
4 min VO2 = 305-310w @ 156 BMP average

After high volume Z2 work and a summer of free riding, last night:
179#
15 min threshold = 277w @ 147BPM (nowhere near full gas, finished the effort easily, was trying to keep the same HR level as last year to note the improvement)
4 min VO2 = 326w @ 154 BMP (max 163 BPM**)

Close to a 40w threshold bump, without any interval training. Perceived effort level seemed easier than I recall, the power flowed easier, and I had more in the tank for the VO2 effort.

I was essentially stuck, like Sir Crash seems to be, for the better part of 2 years. Volume at Z2 seemed to be the key. It will be interesting to see what the next few months of hard training will bring...

*** Compared to some of y'all, I have a very low max HR and a tight power range. I see more watts gained per beat than many people I watch on youtube, but they rev into areas that would cause me to explode... not sure if that is good/bad or doesn't matter.

sir_crash_alot

I don't know if I would describe myself as "stuck". I am unsurprised that progress would feel slow, but everyone I've spoken with has said that developing a motor takes time, years. Throughout a winter of hard trainer work, perhaps the most important thing I've learned is patience. We'll see though if I do really peter out. As of my last check, my FTP has gone up slightly to 223, which is a small but measurable gain.

As for structured training vs. just volume, I've heard both sides. Anecdotal evidence from both sides that argue structure heavy vs. just volume, so I've kinda given up on trying to decide which one is better and simply respond to time and what I can do. Unfortunately my work constraints in the semesters means that I can't just disappear for 4-6 hours for volume. I'll be adding in volume training in the summer when I'm not teaching.

But it's good to hear you've managed to find gains your way! I'll see how far I can get with my current approach, and adjust as needed. I'll likely go find a coach after my first racing season, once i have a better idea of my racing performances.

RChung

For years I've taught only in the fall semester and did all my other research the rest of the year. During the fall, my hours went way down and you can only do what you can do so I would prop up my training by substituting intensity for volume. I have years of this experiment. My conclusion is that when time-crunched, intensity can substitute for some volume but not all, so each January (like this one) I'm starting at a lower spot than where I was in August. Bottom line, TSS is not a complete field-leveler. There are, however, variations in where my January starts, depending on how much intensity and volume I was able to accumulate during the fall. In severe years, I'd lose 10-15% of my CP over the fall; in better years, I'd lose only 5-10%. My sprint doesn't change much: it kinda sucks year 'round.

sir_crash_alot

So I've been plugging away, and the gains are pretty small month-to-month. I am in a rhythm though, and hard intervals have just become a regular habit such that if I go a few days without my regular training, I start to get antsy.

Perhaps the biggest feeling of improvement since I started pursuing this seriously has been that now my "resting" power is about the same as my FTP from August 2023. Realizing that in the middle of a hard interval felt good.

Current FTP: 229 watts
Watts/kg: 3.77

spelger

Resting power is a new term for me. What is it?

PeteHski

I expect he means the recovery power level in-between intervals.

spelger

ok, that makes sense then. i think i have a ways to go then.

sir_crash_alot

Correct. Thanks! Yes, not really a concept or a term, but just a power level where I feel I'm still able to clear the lactate and get ready for the next hard set.

MoAlpha

They say that when someone dies, right?

spelger

no rest for the weary?

sir_crash_alot

They say that cycling is suffering on a bike. It is only natural that the end point of that journey is the grave. It is then all of our destiny to have the ultimate resting power.

My epitaph:
"Dr. So and So
Husband, Father, Teacher.
FTP at time of death: 120W
Here he lies, with his resting power never higher than it is now and forever more."

sir_crash_alot

Haha, i was just going to post on this forum to complain about how TrainerRoad keeps telling me my training stress is too high, and that I should replace interval sessions with endurance sessions. The Red Light-Green Light rollout is interesting, and kinda funny how it seems to contradict the very plans that it prescribes.

It's kinda the "Whoop"-ing of fitness which, while I understand what it's trying to accomplish, feels like it's trying to tell me how I *should* feel on any given day as opposed to being honest about how I *actually* feel.

TrainerRoad: I'm a grown-ass man with toxic masculinity issues. Don't tell me to how to live my life and destroy my body!

RunnerT

You are making quite a lot of progress from what i see, reminds me of my own training a few years back.

I am sitting at around 300W for a 20 min test at 70 kg, nothing crazy by any means. As my name suggests i run a bit as well. Just wanted to share what i have experienced had the biggest impact on my general fitness on the bike and run.

-High protein intake, 3g/kg. This will help you recover faster and increase Vo2 max. Google it, quite a lot of research done on it. Keeping fat intake at around 1,2-1,5 g/kg, protein intake at around 3g/kg and putting the rest on carbs is a great way to get better at using fats as fuel. And making sure you fuel properly before, during and after is important if you want 5w/kg. This i probably where most fail, including myself. If you get sick often, look into calories in and out, you might be underfueling just slightly on daily basis.
-Red meat.
-Higher candace on z2 rides, if you have long legs like me you sort of need to force yourself above 90 rpm.
-Strength training, box squats and deadlifts work for me, might be different for you. I usually go for 20 reps at around 60% of max. 2-3 sets.
-Structured training is a must! A hometrainer is excellent for threshold efforts, you need to get better at these, sorry!
-Low candance (40-50 rpm) training on the bike, again strength training.

Gut bacteria is a big one as well.. but it would take me a few hours to write about that. Google is your friend.
Caffeine
Baking soda
Beetroot extract
Iron supplements if you go above 12h/week

sir_crash_alot

Gut bacteria is I think the next big thing in cycling fitness (if not already). I'm going to start making my own kombucha.

I need to add more weight training too. I've been neglecting it in preference of the trainer!

sir_crash_alot

Just completed my first races of the season, at the La Crosse Omnium. Learned a lot in 2 days of racing than I think I've learned in a year of training. Results:
The La Crosse Omnium Time Trial Masters Cat 4/5: 9th place of 24



The La Crosse Omnium Road Race Masters Cat 4/5: 15th place of 29




I learned a ton. I have a long way to go, but have also come quite a ways. My FTP 10 months ago was 180 watts. But crucially I'm learning that, if you're a racer, FTP needs to be viewed within the broader context of racing, which is more than raw fitness/power.

I'll be back next year for sure!

sir_crash_alot

Now that I've had a chance to reflect on the results, here are my notes and some small percentage of what I learned or am learning:

• In the road race, I attacked immediately off the front, to try to be the first one to a hard right turn into a climb. I think this was a bad move and ultimately unnecessary.
• I overestimated my engine on the climbs (burning that match early didn't help). Based purely on my fitness I feel I should have done better on the climbs than I did.
• I underestimated how rain can affect not just the race, but also the body. The end of the lap has a steep descent with a couple turns, and a few riders straight up DNF-ed preemptively because they didn't want to ride those descents in wet race conditions. I nearly stacked it and bought the farm the first lap going 45mph in the rain on the descent. Would not advise.
• The worst part of the race wasn't anything I experienced during it, but the ride from the finish line to the car. I couldn't stop shivering and could barely control my bike. It was 50 degrees and I was soaked, wearing only a short sleeve jersey and undershirt. The former boy scout in me told me that I was in the early stages of hypothermia. I was not properly dressed for conditions. Thank god my wife met me there, as she made the rational choices to get me warmed up when I could barely think or see straight between the shivering and heaviness in the legs.
• Twice complimented by people about the size of my thighs. If i had a nickle for every time it happened over the weekend, I'd have a 10 cents, which is not much, but it's weird it happened twice.
• Relatedly, I'm a bit disappointed in myself that I had no sprint left at the end. I feel like the sprint should be one of the things I can actually do, but I was so cooked. I looked at the other guy around me pushing and I just couldn't manage more than one feeble standing sprint stroke before I sat down and resigned myself to coming in a few seconds after the other guy. Lesson: learn efficiency, learn your strengths.

All in all, a great weekend. It was great to finish middle of the pack, as I feel that at a raw fitness level I'm now a middle of the pack cat4/5 racer. I can have that confidence going into my next events at that levels. I desperately need to improve my race craft though so I can use my matches more effectively. I'm learning that kind of matches I have as well, but identifying a rider profile may take a few more races to experiment.

Next race is a gravel race this weekend. My goals here are:
1. Ride the wheels. Don't burn any matches you don't have to, especially in the first half to 2/3s. This was my big mistake in the road race (among a few other big mistakes).
2. Try attacking on short, punchy climbs towards the back half of the race, regardless of where you are in the race at that point. See how it feels, and see if you can create some gaps...and then keep them.

spelger

do you do any virtual racing? if not you should. i think you could learn/practice some stuff there as well.

PeteHski

Good idea. It certainly helps with learning when to burn matches, when to sit in and climb pacing.