88 Voyaguer - Who Built the Frame, Panasonic or Other?
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88 Voyaguer - Who Built the Frame, Panasonic or Other?
Recieved the 88 Schwinn Voyageur & am overhauling it.
Does anyone know, with a high degree of cetainity, who built the frame, Panasonic, Giant, or Other?? Consensus is bike was from Japan, although the "Schwinn Approved" label is no where to be found. It is all over my 1975 Voyageur II. Catalog scans from Waterford web site do not help for 1986 through 1989 models. The parts are mostly Japan (stem, bars, headset, pedals, Shimano drive train,), Wheels are French (Maillard hubs, Wobler rims) & tubing is Italain (Columbus Tenax) withe a Tange 7H fork.
Does anyone have the definitive history of the Voyageur SP and Voyageur series??
Does anyone know, with a high degree of cetainity, who built the frame, Panasonic, Giant, or Other?? Consensus is bike was from Japan, although the "Schwinn Approved" label is no where to be found. It is all over my 1975 Voyageur II. Catalog scans from Waterford web site do not help for 1986 through 1989 models. The parts are mostly Japan (stem, bars, headset, pedals, Shimano drive train,), Wheels are French (Maillard hubs, Wobler rims) & tubing is Italain (Columbus Tenax) withe a Tange 7H fork.
Does anyone have the definitive history of the Voyageur SP and Voyageur series??
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All my Schwinnasonics are Tange tubing of one kind or another. Scooper will know for sure. Great bike regardless.
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The '88 Voyageur was made with Columbus Tenax (production grade SL and SP), and I suspect it was made in Greenville MS, but am not sure. "No Hands" says the Voyageurs were built in Greenville at one point, but it doesn't mention which model years.
1988 Schwinn Road Bike specs
Last edited by Scooper; 12-31-10 at 07:45 PM.
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I only have this information second-hand, but the guy I bought my '88 Voyageur from told me he was certain it was built in Japan. It is definitely built with Columbus Tenax tubing, which I would find curious for a Japanese-built Schwinn... I would have presumed Tange if it really had been.
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BB stamped with K747827 on left side of BB and 845 in the center of BB. The "K7" implies frame was made October 1987 (skip "I" when counting the month).
There is NO stamping on the rear drop-outs.
The Schwinn Serial Number & Date Code site
https://www.re-cycle.com/History/Schw...nB_Serial.aspx
,for 1971 to 1992, does not state for sure,
but has Japanese Models with a BB code of
A7XXXXX where A is the month (Jan), 7 is the year, and XXXXX are 5 more digits.
and American ones with a format of
AAXXXXX where the 2 letters are month and year.
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So it seems, Columbus tubing was used for multiple years ont eh top end touring bike Schwiin sold.
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I wish I did know, Bill.
The '88 Voyageur was made with Columbus Tenax (production grade SL and SP), and I suspect it was made in Greenville MS, but am not sure. "No Hands" says the Voyageurs were built in Greenville at one point, but it doesn't mention which model years.
1988 Schwinn Road Bike specs
The '88 Voyageur was made with Columbus Tenax (production grade SL and SP), and I suspect it was made in Greenville MS, but am not sure. "No Hands" says the Voyageurs were built in Greenville at one point, but it doesn't mention which model years.
1988 Schwinn Road Bike specs
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You see, their morals, their code...it's a bad joke, dropped at the first sign of trouble. They're only as good as the world allows them to be. I'll show you. When the chips are down, these...These "civilized" people...they'll eat each other. See, I'm not a monster. I'm just ahead of the curve
You see, their morals, their code...it's a bad joke, dropped at the first sign of trouble. They're only as good as the world allows them to be. I'll show you. When the chips are down, these...These "civilized" people...they'll eat each other. See, I'm not a monster. I'm just ahead of the curve
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I only have this information second-hand, but the guy I bought my '88 Voyageur from told me he was certain it was built in Japan. It is definitely built with Columbus Tenax tubing, which I would find curious for a Japanese-built Schwinn... I would have presumed Tange if it really had been.
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I bought an 85 voyageur today, tenax tubes, sticker says made in japan for schwinn. It has the sn on the lower headlug, like the photo above, 5D10446. Panasonic?
#12
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I believe the Voyagers were Japanese made of Tenax tubing. I do not recall if it was Panasonic (they did try some other ones occasionally), but up til '88 it is a reasonable assumption. Giant only did Tig'ed frames...mountain bikes for the most part, but at the end, I recall one ore two tig'ed road bikes coming in. The Passage and Le Tour Luxe (85/86 models below the Voyager) were made in Greenville. Schwinn had their mid-level bikes made in Greeneville, but their top end stuff still came from Japan (sans Paramount until the end), even with the Tenax.
I did not sell Schwinns until '88, so my memory has faded a bit since.
I did not sell Schwinns until '88, so my memory has faded a bit since.
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I had a Panasonic PT-5000 that had the serial number in the same format/location as above. My 1984 Voyageur SP does not have a serial number on the head tube, though.
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My 1989 (so I was told by forum members) Voyageur doesn't have the lower headtube lug serial # either. ;0)
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You see, their morals, their code...it's a bad joke, dropped at the first sign of trouble. They're only as good as the world allows them to be. I'll show you. When the chips are down, these...These "civilized" people...they'll eat each other. See, I'm not a monster. I'm just ahead of the curve
You see, their morals, their code...it's a bad joke, dropped at the first sign of trouble. They're only as good as the world allows them to be. I'll show you. When the chips are down, these...These "civilized" people...they'll eat each other. See, I'm not a monster. I'm just ahead of the curve
Last edited by ilikebikes; 01-01-11 at 09:57 PM.
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Point taken. LOL! ;0)
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You see, their morals, their code...it's a bad joke, dropped at the first sign of trouble. They're only as good as the world allows them to be. I'll show you. When the chips are down, these...These "civilized" people...they'll eat each other. See, I'm not a monster. I'm just ahead of the curve
You see, their morals, their code...it's a bad joke, dropped at the first sign of trouble. They're only as good as the world allows them to be. I'll show you. When the chips are down, these...These "civilized" people...they'll eat each other. See, I'm not a monster. I'm just ahead of the curve
#18
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I really wish somebody who worked for Schwinn in the eighties and early nineties would compile a list of which models were made where over the years. The records have to be somewhere.
Regarding the 1988 Voyageur country of origin, I found this flickr page featuring a 1989 Voyageur. The owner states that Richard Schwinn (who managed the Greenville plant in the late eighties until it closed in 1991) said the '89 was built in Greenville.
Looking at the 1989 Schwinn Parts & Accessories catalog, the part numbers for the '88 and '89 Voyageur frames and forks are the same. The only color available in '88 and '89 was Emerald Green.
1988 and 1989 Voyageur 19" frame - p/n 29 058
1988 and 1989 Voyageur 21" frame - p/n 29 059
1988 and 1989 Voyageur 23" frame - p/n 29 060
1988 and 1989 Voyageur 25" frame - p/n 29 061
I suppose it's possible the 1988 Voyageur could have been sourced from Japan and the '89 from Greenville, but I don't think Schwinn would have used the same part number. Of course, the owner of the '89 Voyageur on Flickr could be mistaken about Richard saying the '89s were built in Greenville. It sure would be nice to get some definitive documentation, but until that happens we're left to play detective.
Regarding the 1988 Voyageur country of origin, I found this flickr page featuring a 1989 Voyageur. The owner states that Richard Schwinn (who managed the Greenville plant in the late eighties until it closed in 1991) said the '89 was built in Greenville.
Looking at the 1989 Schwinn Parts & Accessories catalog, the part numbers for the '88 and '89 Voyageur frames and forks are the same. The only color available in '88 and '89 was Emerald Green.
1988 and 1989 Voyageur 19" frame - p/n 29 058
1988 and 1989 Voyageur 21" frame - p/n 29 059
1988 and 1989 Voyageur 23" frame - p/n 29 060
1988 and 1989 Voyageur 25" frame - p/n 29 061
I suppose it's possible the 1988 Voyageur could have been sourced from Japan and the '89 from Greenville, but I don't think Schwinn would have used the same part number. Of course, the owner of the '89 Voyageur on Flickr could be mistaken about Richard saying the '89s were built in Greenville. It sure would be nice to get some definitive documentation, but until that happens we're left to play detective.
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Did Giant build anything in Japan? I thought they were a Taiwan/China company.
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#20
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Giant was only Tiawan until the late '90's.
The Greenville plant opened in the mid-80's for a variety of reasons depending upon a person's perspective. I recall that there were rumors of production/quality problems, and at least some of the models moved back and forth form year to year (89-92). Moreover, the yen crash of the mid-late 80's made it very difficult to continue to source stuff from Japan such than I think it would be reasonable to assume than Schwinn's relationship with Panasonic was nearly done due to economic reasons. As I said, Giant at the time was only doing TIG frames (I sold them too, same store, rediculous).
The Greenville plant opened in the mid-80's for a variety of reasons depending upon a person's perspective. I recall that there were rumors of production/quality problems, and at least some of the models moved back and forth form year to year (89-92). Moreover, the yen crash of the mid-late 80's made it very difficult to continue to source stuff from Japan such than I think it would be reasonable to assume than Schwinn's relationship with Panasonic was nearly done due to economic reasons. As I said, Giant at the time was only doing TIG frames (I sold them too, same store, rediculous).
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I really wish somebody who worked for Schwinn in the eighties and early nineties would compile a list of which models were made where over the years. The records have to be somewhere.
Regarding the 1988 Voyageur country of origin, I found this flickr page featuring a 1989 Voyageur. The owner states that Richard Schwinn (who managed the Greenville plant in the late eighties until it closed in 1991) said the '89 was built in Greenville.
Looking at the 1989 Schwinn Parts & Accessories catalog, the part numbers for the '88 and '89 Voyageur frames and forks are the same. The only color available in '88 and '89 was Emerald Green.
1988 and 1989 Voyageur 19" frame - p/n 29 058
1988 and 1989 Voyageur 21" frame - p/n 29 059
1988 and 1989 Voyageur 23" frame - p/n 29 060
1988 and 1989 Voyageur 25" frame - p/n 29 061
I suppose it's possible the 1988 Voyageur could have been sourced from Japan and the '89 from Greenville, but I don't think Schwinn would have used the same part number. Of course, the owner of the '89 Voyageur on Flickr could be mistaken about Richard saying the '89s were built in Greenville. It sure would be nice to get some definitive documentation, but until that happens we're left to play detective.
Regarding the 1988 Voyageur country of origin, I found this flickr page featuring a 1989 Voyageur. The owner states that Richard Schwinn (who managed the Greenville plant in the late eighties until it closed in 1991) said the '89 was built in Greenville.
Looking at the 1989 Schwinn Parts & Accessories catalog, the part numbers for the '88 and '89 Voyageur frames and forks are the same. The only color available in '88 and '89 was Emerald Green.
1988 and 1989 Voyageur 19" frame - p/n 29 058
1988 and 1989 Voyageur 21" frame - p/n 29 059
1988 and 1989 Voyageur 23" frame - p/n 29 060
1988 and 1989 Voyageur 25" frame - p/n 29 061
I suppose it's possible the 1988 Voyageur could have been sourced from Japan and the '89 from Greenville, but I don't think Schwinn would have used the same part number. Of course, the owner of the '89 Voyageur on Flickr could be mistaken about Richard saying the '89s were built in Greenville. It sure would be nice to get some definitive documentation, but until that happens we're left to play detective.
__________________
You see, their morals, their code...it's a bad joke, dropped at the first sign of trouble. They're only as good as the world allows them to be. I'll show you. When the chips are down, these...These "civilized" people...they'll eat each other. See, I'm not a monster. I'm just ahead of the curve
You see, their morals, their code...it's a bad joke, dropped at the first sign of trouble. They're only as good as the world allows them to be. I'll show you. When the chips are down, these...These "civilized" people...they'll eat each other. See, I'm not a monster. I'm just ahead of the curve
Last edited by ilikebikes; 01-01-11 at 09:58 PM.
#22
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Giant (Tony Lo) was a Taiwan company during the timeframe we're talking about, and Schwinn was importing Giant produced bikes as early as 1977. By 1984 Giant was supplying 500,000 bikes per year to Schwinn. In 1987, Schwinn bought a one-third interest in Shenzhen based China Bicycles (Jerome Sze) and began importing bikes from mainland China, which put a strain on Schwinn's relationship with Taiwan based Giant.
National/Panasonic in Japan continued to have a good relationship with Schwinn until the November, 1992 bankruptcy (they supplied the Schwinn Series 5 and Series 7 Paramounts until the bankruptcy).
National/Panasonic in Japan continued to have a good relationship with Schwinn until the November, 1992 bankruptcy (they supplied the Schwinn Series 5 and Series 7 Paramounts until the bankruptcy).
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I believe the Voyagers were Japanese made of Tenax tubing. I do not recall if it was Panasonic (they did try some other ones occasionally), but up til '88 it is a reasonable assumption. Giant only did Tig'ed frames...mountain bikes for the most part, but at the end, I recall one ore two tig'ed road bikes coming in. The Passage and Le Tour Luxe (85/86 models below the Voyager) were made in Greenville. Schwinn had their mid-level bikes made in Greeneville, but their top end stuff still came from Japan (sans Paramount until the end), even with the Tenax.
I did not sell Schwinns until '88, so my memory has faded a bit since.
I did not sell Schwinns until '88, so my memory has faded a bit since.
I have had a couple Panasonic's and a couple Panasonic built Scwhinns and the 80's models that I had always had the head tube SN number.
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#25
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The 1985 Voyageur was built by National/Panasonic in Japan and used Tenax tubing, but I believe the '88 and '89 Voyageurs which also used Tenax may have been built in Greenville.