Cannibalization
#1
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Cannibalization
Relatively new to the C&V scene, I'm looking for replacement and upgrade parts for my 60's and early 70's English 10 speeds and buying a whole bike seems to be as cheap if not cheaper than sourcing the individual components. Plus, there are always the bits and bobs that come in handy for projects down the line.
I'm perusing the local ads and find a number of bikes that seem to be good candidates. My first attempt was buying a well-stored mid-70's Grand Prix with Brooks saddle in supple condition and a period Pletscher rack. But it just needs a new FD which I have, and it's too nice to break up so I'll pass it along.
What I see mostly is Motobecanes, Univegas, Fujis, import Schwinns and some Puchs. All pretty cheap and have most of the parts I'd be looking for. But what bikes would yield the most parts that would fit my '60's Robin Hood Lenton Sports and '72 Dawes Galaxy? Seat posts seem to vary wildly. I know most Derailleur sets, brakes and 27" wheel sets (looking for a serviceable alloy set) should be interchangeable, but what about stems, cranksets (both cottered and cotterless for conversion)? French brands seem to have their own thread sizes that won't swap in, but what about the rest? Any brands or eras to avoid? Or should I go armed with measurements from my own bikes?
I'm perusing the local ads and find a number of bikes that seem to be good candidates. My first attempt was buying a well-stored mid-70's Grand Prix with Brooks saddle in supple condition and a period Pletscher rack. But it just needs a new FD which I have, and it's too nice to break up so I'll pass it along.
What I see mostly is Motobecanes, Univegas, Fujis, import Schwinns and some Puchs. All pretty cheap and have most of the parts I'd be looking for. But what bikes would yield the most parts that would fit my '60's Robin Hood Lenton Sports and '72 Dawes Galaxy? Seat posts seem to vary wildly. I know most Derailleur sets, brakes and 27" wheel sets (looking for a serviceable alloy set) should be interchangeable, but what about stems, cranksets (both cottered and cotterless for conversion)? French brands seem to have their own thread sizes that won't swap in, but what about the rest? Any brands or eras to avoid? Or should I go armed with measurements from my own bikes?
Last edited by swampyankee2; 04-08-22 at 11:59 AM.
#3
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Can't help you with the Lenton, but a well stocked Fuji or Raleigh or something. Honestly, the Grand Prix was probably a good model to cannibalize, then resell the frame.
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1987 Crest Cannondale, 1987 Basso Gap, 1992 Rossin Performance EL, 1990ish Van Tuyl, 1985 Trek 670, 1982 AD SLE, 2003 Pinarello Surprise, 1990ish MBK Atlantique, 1987 Peugeot Competition, 1987 Nishiki Tri-A, 1981 Faggin, 1996 Cannondale M500, 1984 Mercian, 1982 AD SuperLeicht, 1985 Massi (model unknown), 1988 Daccordi Griffe , 1989 Fauxsin MTB, 1981 Ciocc Mockba, 1992 Bianchi Giro, 1977 Colnago Super
1987 Crest Cannondale, 1987 Basso Gap, 1992 Rossin Performance EL, 1990ish Van Tuyl, 1985 Trek 670, 1982 AD SLE, 2003 Pinarello Surprise, 1990ish MBK Atlantique, 1987 Peugeot Competition, 1987 Nishiki Tri-A, 1981 Faggin, 1996 Cannondale M500, 1984 Mercian, 1982 AD SuperLeicht, 1985 Massi (model unknown), 1988 Daccordi Griffe , 1989 Fauxsin MTB, 1981 Ciocc Mockba, 1992 Bianchi Giro, 1977 Colnago Super
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you look to cannibalize, but realize you found a nice overall bike, then cannibal = N+1
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(looking for Torpado Super light frame/fork or for Raleigh International frame fork 58cm)
Life is too short not to ride the best bike you have, as much as you can
(looking for Torpado Super light frame/fork or for Raleigh International frame fork 58cm)
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#5
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I wouldn't buy a bike just to K-ball the parts, The best place to get parts might be the local dump if there is a metal pile. For a couple of years I could find all sorts of bike parts in the local dumps. Right now I 'm getting ready to give some of the stuff away. If you want some 27" alloy rims, pm me.
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To prevent this, do what I did in early 2021 and buy a complete bike for parts.... in the wrong frame size.
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Larry:1958 Drysdale, 1961 Gitane Gran Sport, 1974 Zeus track, 1988 Masi Gran Corsa, 1974 Falcon, 1980 Palo Alto, 1973 Raleigh Gran Sport, 1974 Legnano. Susan: 1976 Windsor Profesional.
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#7
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I like the For Trade thread.
Lots of very specific requests get met there, for a worthy swap.
Lots of very specific requests get met there, for a worthy swap.
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If you've got the space and the spare cash, go on and buy those cheap bikes, whatever their provenance. Some day you'll find a lovely French frame in your size, and you'll find that the $20 Peugeot in the barn is worth its weight in gold.
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Don't count on stem or seat post fitting. It really depends on the era of the bike, and more. BB may or may not be correct. Raleigh for example had their own standard, which was different than the british standard. And then you have rear wheel spacing. Those changed significantly over the years, from 120mm to 126mm to 130mm to 135mm. Some of the british bikes used smaller diameter front axles too.
Still I continue to find all the parts I need in the form of complete bikes. But often, it just isn't ONE bike. Picked up two today, one made in USA, one made in Japan. Different stem ODs, different seat post ODs, different rear wheel spacing, different headset specs, different wheel OD, on and on.
I can't imagine a 1970s cottered crank Raleigh Gran Prix frame having ANY value. Generally, I target 1980s made in Japan bikes, that tended to use standardized stuff. One I picked up today is a good example. 1985 made in Japan Nishiki, almost all Shimano 600 parts. Frame alone should more than cover cost, but it was a high end model back in the day.
Still I continue to find all the parts I need in the form of complete bikes. But often, it just isn't ONE bike. Picked up two today, one made in USA, one made in Japan. Different stem ODs, different seat post ODs, different rear wheel spacing, different headset specs, different wheel OD, on and on.
I can't imagine a 1970s cottered crank Raleigh Gran Prix frame having ANY value. Generally, I target 1980s made in Japan bikes, that tended to use standardized stuff. One I picked up today is a good example. 1985 made in Japan Nishiki, almost all Shimano 600 parts. Frame alone should more than cover cost, but it was a high end model back in the day.
Last edited by wrk101; 04-08-22 at 04:22 PM.
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#12
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“One morning you wake up, the girl is gone, the bikes are gone, all that's left behind is a pair of old tires and a tube of tubular glue, all squeezed out"
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“One morning you wake up, the girl is gone, the bikes are gone, all that's left behind is a pair of old tires and a tube of tubular glue, all squeezed out"
Sugar "Kane" Kowalczyk
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#13
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I wouldn't buy a bike just to K-ball the parts, The best place to get parts might be the local dump if there is a metal pile. For a couple of years I could find all sorts of bike parts in the local dumps. Right now I 'm getting ready to give some of the stuff away. If you want some 27" alloy rims, pm me.
#14
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#15
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Don't count on stem or seat post fitting. It really depends on the era of the bike, and more. BB may or may not be correct. Raleigh for example had their own standard, which was different than the british standard. And then you have rear wheel spacing. Those changed significantly over the years, from 120mm to 126mm to 130mm to 135mm. Some of the british bikes used smaller diameter front axles too.
Still I continue to find all the parts I need in the form of complete bikes. But often, it just isn't ONE bike. Picked up two today, one made in USA, one made in Japan. Different stem ODs, different seat post ODs, different rear wheel spacing, different headset specs, different wheel OD, on and on.
I can't imagine a 1970s cottered crank Raleigh Gran Prix frame having ANY value. Generally, I target 1980s made in Japan bikes, that tended to use standardized stuff. One I picked up today is a good example. 1985 made in Japan Nishiki, almost all Shimano 600 parts. Frame alone should more than cover cost, but it was a high end model back in the day.
Still I continue to find all the parts I need in the form of complete bikes. But often, it just isn't ONE bike. Picked up two today, one made in USA, one made in Japan. Different stem ODs, different seat post ODs, different rear wheel spacing, different headset specs, different wheel OD, on and on.
I can't imagine a 1970s cottered crank Raleigh Gran Prix frame having ANY value. Generally, I target 1980s made in Japan bikes, that tended to use standardized stuff. One I picked up today is a good example. 1985 made in Japan Nishiki, almost all Shimano 600 parts. Frame alone should more than cover cost, but it was a high end model back in the day.
#16
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Cannibalizing I'm OK with. It's the thievery that bothers me.
Like most criminal acts, the loser starts with petty offenses. A QR spring rolls off into the 4th dimension; lost. A replacement spring is innocently "borrowed" from a happy complete QR. Pretty soon a headset locking nut is robbed, and after that it's familiar path to hell.
Like most criminal acts, the loser starts with petty offenses. A QR spring rolls off into the 4th dimension; lost. A replacement spring is innocently "borrowed" from a happy complete QR. Pretty soon a headset locking nut is robbed, and after that it's familiar path to hell.
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#17
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Cannibalizing I'm OK with. It's the thievery that bothers me.
Like most criminal acts, the loser starts with petty offenses. A QR spring rolls off into the 4th dimension; lost. A replacement spring is innocently "borrowed" from a happy complete QR. Pretty soon a headset locking nut is robbed, and after that it's familiar path to hell.
Like most criminal acts, the loser starts with petty offenses. A QR spring rolls off into the 4th dimension; lost. A replacement spring is innocently "borrowed" from a happy complete QR. Pretty soon a headset locking nut is robbed, and after that it's familiar path to hell.
__________________
“One morning you wake up, the girl is gone, the bikes are gone, all that's left behind is a pair of old tires and a tube of tubular glue, all squeezed out"
Sugar "Kane" Kowalczyk
“One morning you wake up, the girl is gone, the bikes are gone, all that's left behind is a pair of old tires and a tube of tubular glue, all squeezed out"
Sugar "Kane" Kowalczyk
#18
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Don't count on stem or seat post fitting. It really depends on the era of the bike, and more. BB may or may not be correct. Raleigh for example had their own standard, which was different than the british standard. And then you have rear wheel spacing. Those changed significantly over the years, from 120mm to 126mm to 130mm to 135mm. Some of the british bikes used smaller diameter front axles too.
Still I continue to find all the parts I need in the form of complete bikes. But often, it just isn't ONE bike. Picked up two today, one made in USA, one made in Japan. Different stem ODs, different seat post ODs, different rear wheel spacing, different headset specs, different wheel OD, on and on.
I can't imagine a 1970s cottered crank Raleigh Gran Prix frame having ANY value. Generally, I target 1980s made in Japan bikes, that tended to use standardized stuff. One I picked up today is a good example. 1985 made in Japan Nishiki, almost all Shimano 600 parts. Frame alone should more than cover cost, but it was a high end model back in the day.
Still I continue to find all the parts I need in the form of complete bikes. But often, it just isn't ONE bike. Picked up two today, one made in USA, one made in Japan. Different stem ODs, different seat post ODs, different rear wheel spacing, different headset specs, different wheel OD, on and on.
I can't imagine a 1970s cottered crank Raleigh Gran Prix frame having ANY value. Generally, I target 1980s made in Japan bikes, that tended to use standardized stuff. One I picked up today is a good example. 1985 made in Japan Nishiki, almost all Shimano 600 parts. Frame alone should more than cover cost, but it was a high end model back in the day.
Despite the proprietary threadings, BB cups will often pass inspection if the races are not rusty, and the spacing between the bearings is a one of several standard values. This means you can often swap out the cottered spindle +chainset for a square-taper spindle with cotterless chainset. It’s not elementary to choose a workable spindle, but it’s an opportunity to adapt and overcome. I’d rather see a GP with a Stronglight or TA near-period chainset adaptation, than a staged alloy crank from the lower early ranks of the period Asian bikes. My brother had one, it was a real good ride, but … it becomes “refurbishing an old bike as a rider” rather than respecting what was done in manufacturing a classic.
I was recently scolded on BF, however, for taking the TA path with my 1952 Rudge. Opinions vary widely. But I always think “if I cannot replace a bad part with the original, what can I do that is a period upgrade, or, what would I have done BITD if I had owned this machine and ridden it extensively?
For me, replacing with a decent used cotterless chainset like a Stronglight or TA would have been a no-brainer. Today, I realize there is a lot to think about: chainline, Q-factor, chainring pitch, chainring war page, tooth condition, chain matching, clearances to the chainstay, lateral balance, and making sure I have the correct extractor (the price of becoming free of fine-tuning cotter pins). But once you have found the spindle which matches the crank to the bike, you’re set for several more decades.
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I have a theory that everything has “a price”.
Let’s say you find a mint De Rosa, your size, and it’s $1,000. You’ve always wanted one but can’t stomach paying the $1k. Later you find a scabby version of the same bike for $150. Yay! What a score! Upon closer inspection the forks are bent, there’s a dent in the wrong place on the seat tube, it’s sporting a Huffy saddle, the brakes are mismatched low-end Dia-Compes, the wheels are 27” (you wanted 700c) and the paint is awful. You’ll spend a fortune righting the wrongs and equal or exceed the $1,000 version.
My point, if I have one, stuff costs money. Horse trading to get the correct bits is fun if you have the time but it takes patience and knowledge. Personally, I would rather rely upon knowledgeable people like the fine folks here and get the correct stuff the first time. The thread about buying a bike for a seat post isn’t my thing since after they get their seatpost I might chime in and ask about some of the other bits on the frame I could use.
I’ll step off the soapbox…
Let’s say you find a mint De Rosa, your size, and it’s $1,000. You’ve always wanted one but can’t stomach paying the $1k. Later you find a scabby version of the same bike for $150. Yay! What a score! Upon closer inspection the forks are bent, there’s a dent in the wrong place on the seat tube, it’s sporting a Huffy saddle, the brakes are mismatched low-end Dia-Compes, the wheels are 27” (you wanted 700c) and the paint is awful. You’ll spend a fortune righting the wrongs and equal or exceed the $1,000 version.
My point, if I have one, stuff costs money. Horse trading to get the correct bits is fun if you have the time but it takes patience and knowledge. Personally, I would rather rely upon knowledgeable people like the fine folks here and get the correct stuff the first time. The thread about buying a bike for a seat post isn’t my thing since after they get their seatpost I might chime in and ask about some of the other bits on the frame I could use.
I’ll step off the soapbox…
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#20
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#21
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Check ot the thread on this forum titled "savd from the Dump"