Crashing techniques and styles
#176
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An emergency stop brings the bicycle to a halt as quickly as possible. In that situation, the rear brake is "effectively" useless. As has been explained multiple times by several people.
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No, the rear brake is not "effective" in an emergency stop, as it will do almost nothing to slow the bicycle.
An emergency stop brings the bicycle to a halt as quickly as possible. In that situation, the rear brake is "effectively" useless. As has been explained multiple times by several people.
An emergency stop brings the bicycle to a halt as quickly as possible. In that situation, the rear brake is "effectively" useless. As has been explained multiple times by several people.
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You're missing the sufficient to cause a skid part. I don't know if it's easy to produce a skid with a rear wheel because I haven't done so intentionally. I do know it's never happened to me inadvertently.
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Its not. It’s essentially instantaneous.
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I don’t believe you.
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Nothing is instantaneous. Even if the rear wheel is weighted for a fraction of the time required to complete an emergency stop, that is time that the rear brake can be effective. And, in an emergency stop, any extra braking is a good thing.
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#185
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You are mistaken. The instant the front brake is grabbed for maximum effect, the force between rear tire and the road surface changes. There is no delay.
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If that is the case, then that means it is hard to brake hard enough with the front to fully unweight the rear wheel. And if the rear wheel is not fully unweighted, then it can be used to apply braking force.
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This is actually the quintessence of all the arguments here.
"I reject your reality and substitute my own."
This is the text version of sticking one's fingers in one's ears and chanting to avoid hearing unpleasant facts.
Then there is this:
"Almost nothing" is more than zero, so by your own admission, even if someone is so inept as to be unable to brake properly, the rear brake is still helping slow the bicycle ... you counter all your own arguments right there.
Yeah, but @terrymorse just told me it does have some effect ......
And then there is this gem:
Yes folks, @terrymorse did indeed completely negate all his arguments in this post. Yes, he freely admitted that the rear brake played a role in stopping, and that a rider could learn to brake properly using both brakes.
The funniest part is that he ignored his own post and went on to argue against what he said here in several more posts.
"I reject your reality and substitute my own."
This is the text version of sticking one's fingers in one's ears and chanting to avoid hearing unpleasant facts.
Then there is this:
And then there is this gem:
That depends on what your definition of "effective" is. Of course, rear braking works (is "effective") in many situations. Any experienced cyclist knows that. [Emphasis added.]
But at the upper limit of braking, the rear brake is entirely non-effective, and using it in that situation is problematic.
Knowing how much rear brake to apply becomes natural after some practice with hard braking in many situations, with dray and wet roads. There's an instant feedback from braking the rear too hard, a skid, which a rider learns to avoid. The problem often occurs in a sudden "watch out!" moment, when the rider reactively grabs a big handful of both brakes. This reaction can also be unlearned by practicing emergency braking. [Emphasis added.]
But at the upper limit of braking, the rear brake is entirely non-effective, and using it in that situation is problematic.
Knowing how much rear brake to apply becomes natural after some practice with hard braking in many situations, with dray and wet roads. There's an instant feedback from braking the rear too hard, a skid, which a rider learns to avoid. The problem often occurs in a sudden "watch out!" moment, when the rider reactively grabs a big handful of both brakes. This reaction can also be unlearned by practicing emergency braking. [Emphasis added.]
The funniest part is that he ignored his own post and went on to argue against what he said here in several more posts.
Last edited by Maelochs; 07-14-22 at 04:41 AM.
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This is actually the quintessence of all the arguments here.
"I reject your reality and substitute my own."
This is the text version of sticking one's fingers in one's ears and chanting to avoid hearing unpleasant facts.
Then there is this: "Almost nothing" is more than zero, so by your own admission, even if someone is so inept as to be unable to brake properly, the rear brake is still helping slow the bicycle ... you counter all your own arguments right there.
Yeah, but @terrymorse just told me it does have some effect ......
And then there is this gem:
Yes folks, @terrymorse did indeed completely negate all his arguments in this post. Yes, he freely admitted that the rear brake played a role in stopping, and that a rider could learn to brake properly using both brakes.
The funniest part is that he ignored his own post and went on to argue against what he said here in several more posts.
"I reject your reality and substitute my own."
This is the text version of sticking one's fingers in one's ears and chanting to avoid hearing unpleasant facts.
Then there is this: "Almost nothing" is more than zero, so by your own admission, even if someone is so inept as to be unable to brake properly, the rear brake is still helping slow the bicycle ... you counter all your own arguments right there.
Yeah, but @terrymorse just told me it does have some effect ......
And then there is this gem:
Yes folks, @terrymorse did indeed completely negate all his arguments in this post. Yes, he freely admitted that the rear brake played a role in stopping, and that a rider could learn to brake properly using both brakes.
The funniest part is that he ignored his own post and went on to argue against what he said here in several more posts.
I find the idea of practicing emergency stopping pretty funny. The biggest variable in coming out of a sudden stop is your position on the bike, far more important than anything you're actually doing with the brakes, and by its very nature, you don't know ahead of time what position you'll be on the bike when you have to slam the brake(s). I don't think anyone is capable of disregarding the knowledge that they're about to slam the brakes during a practice run. Your body is going to make all sort of adjustments prior to this slam that you won't even be aware of.
I also don't think that practicing slamming the brakes is a good idea for another reason--it's almost never the best reaction to a real-world situation and I suspect you're just conditioning yourself to commit to it too easily. I can think of literally dozens of near-misses where I would have definitely gotten hurt if my first reaction was to hit the brake, evasion is almost always the better strategy and braking interferes with that in real time.
#190
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I suspect that for most of us posting here, we've been riding long enough for our techniques of brake use to have become nearly reflexive.
On my ride today, I decided to pay attention to what I do when I'm braking. I discovered that I apparently nearly always initiate braking with the rear brake and bring the front brake in gradually. Given that that habit has developed over the course of over six decades of riding, I imagine it's proven to be the safest approach.
On my ride today, I decided to pay attention to what I do when I'm braking. I discovered that I apparently nearly always initiate braking with the rear brake and bring the front brake in gradually. Given that that habit has developed over the course of over six decades of riding, I imagine it's proven to be the safest approach.
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#192
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And then there is this gem:
Yes folks, @terrymorse did indeed completely negate all his arguments in this post. Yes, he freely admitted that the rear brake played a role in stopping, and that a rider could learn to brake properly using both brakes.
The funniest part is that he ignored his own post and went on to argue against what he said here in several more posts.
Yes folks, @terrymorse did indeed completely negate all his arguments in this post. Yes, he freely admitted that the rear brake played a role in stopping, and that a rider could learn to brake properly using both brakes.
The funniest part is that he ignored his own post and went on to argue against what he said here in several more posts.
A thoughtful reader will understand what I wrote.
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It's you and livedarklions who are rejecting reality.
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#196
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I read that F1 cars do not have ABS. I suppose an experienced race driver could get good results without ABS. I know years ago it was thought the fastest way to stop a car was to lock up the brakes and the primary reason for ABS is to allow steering control when braking. It just seems as good as the passenger car stuff is, there must be prototype or top level systems that are much better, with the sophisticated sensors and high baud rate computers there are now. In other words, a system which could get closer to that threshold than a driver could alone. Maybe in the future?
It also seems there are no ABS systems in NASCAR or Indy cars or LeMans racing, although some of the sophisticated cars have brake by wire with adjustable bias on the fly. I don't know how much input the computer has to the bias adjustment but that seems like an ideal place for the digitals.
Last edited by big john; 07-14-22 at 04:12 PM.
#197
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55 years of bicycling, and I've never managed to skid the rear wheel except with coaster brakes (we did that for fun when I was a kid)
It is extremely difficult to lock the rear wheel sufficiently to produce a skid with rim brakes. Somebody actually managing to do it with discs?
It is extremely difficult to lock the rear wheel sufficiently to produce a skid with rim brakes. Somebody actually managing to do it with discs?
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Sure they can, because computers can do nothing better than the program they are running. A lot of the aircraft crashes in recent years, USA airliners and fighter jets both, are from poor computer programming. All ABS braking does is give people who are poor or average drivers a false sense of security. A well-trained driver will always be better off than the soccer-moms in their ABS equipped SUV's that are rolling over and killing themselves every day. Computers are not a superior intelligence, they can do nothing unless a human writes the instructions for them to carry out, and human computer programmers are just like any other human, most of them are full of ****.
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Sure they can, because computers can do nothing better than the program they are running. A lot of the aircraft crashes in recent years, USA airliners and fighter jets both, are from poor computer programming. All ABS braking does is give people who are poor or average drivers a false sense of security. A well-trained driver will always be better off than the soccer-moms in their ABS equipped SUV's that are rolling over and killing themselves every day. Computers are not a superior intelligence, they can do nothing unless a human writes the instructions for them to carry out, and human computer programmers are just like any other human, most of them are full of ****.