DangerousDanR

mstateglfr 

beng1
Why do you keep calling it a toaster?

HelpSingularity 

I recall reading about British time trialing in the 1920-30s. The descriptions of their top of the line, state of the art racing bicycles included steel rims. So my guess (without going down the rabbit hole) is that at one time one could purchase high quality, light weight rims made of steel. But of course that was almost one hundred years ago now.

smd4

One does not follow the other. I guess sometimes even self-proclaimed brilliant people struggle with logic.

Road Fan

I have a pair of Dunlop rims taken off my 1952 Rudge with 27" wheels. The Raleigh and Rudge literature from that bike do not say they are stainless steel. It is reasonable that they are chrome-plated steel, since plating parts of vehicles (cars, trucks, bikes, baby buggies) was very common up through the 1970's, at least. Stainless steel was pretty expensive stuff.

Take a magnet and see if it sticks to the rim strongly. If it does stick strongly, your Dunlop rims are most likely some form of mild steel (cheep) as the base metal.

Mostly stainless steel is either ferritic or austenitic, according to a basic Google search. Austenitic steels are less magnetic or not magnetic, and most stainless steels are austenitic. So most stainless steel is weakly magnetic or not magnetic.

You can make shiny steel by using a shiny stainless, or by plating it with shiny chromium. In the old days, chromium was cheaper. So most likely my old Dunlops are chrome plated mild steel, just like the old car bumpers.

Road Fan

I think the right interpretation here is that "light weight" is a relative term. The Raleigh Grand Prix in the 1970s was considered by some to be "light" compared to a contemporary Schwinn Varsity, but it was a heavy tank compared to the Peugeot PX-10 of the day. Of those, only the Peug would be considered light today, and most modern road bikes are lighter than it was.

The rim company in the 1920s could have made lighter rims by using thinner sheet metal to form the rims. Reducing by a few ounces is still a real reduction, even though it may not have been very significant.

beng1

It is a Schwinn LeTour with a coaster rear brake, so it has been dubbed the "LeToaster".

And as for "road-fan"'s comment about his Dunlop rims. Assumptions are worthless. Just because your bike had chrome-plated Dunlop rims, does not mean that Dunlop did not offer rims in other materials. I had a BSA with aluminum Dunlop rims, and I have a Norton motorcycle with chrome-plated mild steel rims, which tells me nothing about what else Dunlop manufactured for motorcycles or bicycles.

Buzzkill53120

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning–Kruger_effect

smd4

^^Excellent...

terrymorse 

More springy? As in higher Young's modulus? Nah, all steels are about the same.

mstateglfr 

Oh, its a portmanteau.
Pro tip- just because something can be done doesnt mean it should be done. Apply that here. Heck, apply that to a lot of your riding decisions and what you post about.

PeteHski

The best combination is brain power AND braking power (with good, consistent modulation). They are not mutually exclusive.

PeteHski

I run a pair of "consumer-grade trash" DT Swiss ERC 1400s on my current road bike. I did have steel rims on a couple of bikes from my early youth (I remember the surface pitting) and certainly plenty of alloy rims over the years. As you appear to have discovered, "gyro forces" are not very important in the overall riding experience and especially not within the weight differences under discussion. Here's a study for you if you are interested (note that last time I posted this, it didn't pass scrutiny from the forum "experts", but no surprise there)

Hugh Hunt - Cambridge University - Are Gyroscopic Effects Significant When Riding A Bicycle ?.

79pmooney

If you looked at the OPs bike, you would see that alloy rims would make absolutely zero difference in wet weather braking beyond having a little less inertia to have to stop.

ThermionicScott 

I think the first production aluminum rims were in the early-mid 30's, so before that you would have been on wood or steel anyway.

3alarmer 

...I used to work with metals, back in a previous life. I'm very sorry that the rims you got were the crummy chrome plated ones, but I can assure you that the ones I took off a '58 Raleigh Lenton I reworked were clearly stamped as "Special Lightweight" and "Stainless". I guess it's possible the company was lying, but I don't know why they would do that. They were not as "lightweight" as aluminum rims, so maybe they were just habitual liars at Dunlop ?

I did not keep them. Apparently, I could have sold them on ebay to some period correct, obsessive compulsive bike restorer. But I feel like I would have incurred a karmic burden in doing so.

beng1

Look up spring-steel genius. It is carbon steel that is heat-treated to a degree. Mild steel bends and does not spring back because of it's carbon content and hardness. Carbon steel can be annealed soft or hardened to any degree up to the point where it will shatter like glass if it is dropped. Go read a few books on it then come back when you know something.

shelbyfv

If for some reason I decided I wanted steel rims, which ones would be available in spring-steel?

3alarmer 

Road Fan

It seems as if you are putting words in my mouth - I don't beleive I said your rims are not stainless, it's ust that I don't see positive indications that stainless steel s a fact for those rims. You could be right. My rims are 1952, yours are 1958 - that could be a big difference.

I also don't see any reason for my rims to be viewed as "crummy."

I did not intend to cast any aspersions, just to say that I don't see clear positive indications. Can you show a pic of your stamping which has the word '"stainless", or whatever is printed there. I'll show mine as well, then we're talking apples to apples.

How strongly do your "stainless"-marked rims attract a magnet?

terrymorse 

You, a mechanic, is telling me, a Mechanical Engineer (BS & MS), to read a few books on the properties of steel?! Thank you, but I've studied enough about steel to last a career.

I will attempt to clarify the above statements:

High strength (spring) steel and mild steel both have about an equal amount of elasticity: the same force will deflect them both by the same amount--until the force is higher than the material's yield strength. Since spring steel has a high yield strength, it can withstand a high force without deforming permanently. Mild steel, on the other hand, has a lower yield stress, so it cannot be stressed as highly without deforming permanently. High strength steel is more brittle than mild steel, but it won't shatter like glass if it is dropped. When high strength steel is stressed beyond its yield limit, it tends to break. Unlike mild steel, which will simply deform permanently.

3alarmer 

...why is this a big deal to you ? I already told you I replaced them with aluminum, and got rid of them. You can believe me or not, but clearly the people at Classic Lightweights think they exist in space and time. Dunlop just stopped making them. Probably because they were getting harder and harder to sell, given the superiority of aluminum alloy rim. They didn't have great bead hooks either, which was standard for the era. So tire pressures are pretty limited.

One of the strangest things I encounter on this forum is people who want to tell me what's going on, right in front of me, from across the internet. English is my native language. I know how to read the word "stainless". Please, just let it go.

Do you really think that the Dunlop people were just adding the word as some kind of marketing technique ?

3alarmer 

​​​​​​​https://sheldonbrown.com/retroraleig...an-kohler.html

beng1

Actually, I have noticed that it is easier to lock up the rear wheel with the coaster-brake on dry pavement now, so that is a drawback as the inertia of the steel rims worked as an anti-lock braking system. I am sure with a few more rides on the alloy rims I will adjust my braking technique to compensate.

PeteHski

Less than half a pound difference in wheel mass will make no significant difference in terms of braking inertia. If you spin a wheel up in a workstand and apply the brake it will stop dead instantly. There is very little wheel inertia, whether steel, alloy or carbon rims. The only significant inertia when braking on a bicycle is from your own bodyweight.