Paul Barnard

A year or so ago, I started a thread about a guy on a bicycle that passed me, whipped out in front of a car and got smacked. That happened at the entrance to the levee path.

About a mile down from that is another bike path/road intersection. This one sees a good bit of auto traffic crossing into a park area. Bicyclists have the stop signs. No stop signs for the road that crosses the path. I go to the dog park right by the intersection sometimes, and always see idiots on bicycles roll the sign. Most of the time they make sure there's no cross traffic, so no harm, no foul. Sometimes though, they are oblivious, and I have seen some close calls.

I was on a good roll today as I approached the intersection. Doing 20-21 thanks to a light tailwind. I had just passed a slow roller and had a Ricky Racer trying to reel me in. Today there was a car, depicted by the black X, a pedestrian, the red X and a bicyclist, the green X setting up to cross as I approached. I got on my brakes to yield right of way. The car started slowing as if to stop, and I waved them on.

I was the blue X nearest the intersection. The other bicyclists were the other blue Xs. Apparently they had their heads up their rectums, because as I slowed to yield right of way, they came barreling up my butt and yelled "what are you doing?" After the other road users had cleared the intersection, I proceeded. Ricky Racer was looking at me in disbelief. I said "I was stopping... at the stop sign, genius."




It was nice bringing the sun up today. The 5 MPH tailwind allowed me to cruise at about 19-21. Did right at 40 miles. Trying to whip myself into shape for the mountains. Going from sea level lungs to 10,000 feet and from flat to rides with 4000 feet of climbing kicks my tail.

rsbob 

Reminds me of a time many years ago in a galaxy far, far away, when I was riding a MUP near Seattle with lots of cross streets. (The Burke-Gilman) The posted speed on the trail is 15 but seeing people hitting 20+ was not unusual as they dodged dog walkers, people with their kids and strollers.

I was a scofflaw doing 18 approaching a road crossing where trail users had the stop sign. As I was approaching a car was looking to cross over about 50 feet away when a hot-shot passed me doing 20+. The timing of him running the stop coincided perfectly with the car reaching the trail crossing. The car tried to stop but contacted his rear wheel, throwing him down. The person driving was a female in her late teens or early 20s. She immediately got out of the car to see if the guy was alright when he started cursing at her. She was extremely upset about the making contact and his tirade (he was probably about 16-17) which was her complete undoing. I stopped and interjected that he was clearly in the wrong, was at fault and was responsible for the accident by running the stop. He then turned his tirade toward me while I tried to console the driver to let her know she did nothing wrong. I told her to go on and forget him and told him to grow up and take responsibility and left him with his bent rear wheel.

Mtracer

I know I would certainly roll those MUP stops signs, as I do just about every other stop sign, but I always slow and look to make sure it is safe. Essentially executing the Idaho Stop. But, yeah, you have to wonder about cyclists that just ride across streets as if they have a force field around them. Hell, even if they had the right of way, common sense says to assume a car is coming and be prepared. I do this when driving and I have a green light. I take a look for cross traffic and be prepared to react.

Most of the MUPs in my area, have stops for crossing streets, a few have a crosswalk, which would require cars to yield. About 1% of the time a car will actually yield at these. But even if you had the right of way being on the MUP, unless the car has an actual stop sign, how could any driver be expected to yield to a cyclist doing 20+ MPH. There simply wouldn't be any time to react to the cyclist.

To the defense of a cyclist going off on a driver that hit them, even when the cyclist is 100% at fault, the flight or fight reaction is going to kick in. So, it's pretty normal to come out swinging in that situation. Their reaction might change quite a bit once the adrenaline wears off.

SoSmellyAir

Paul Barnard: To avoid liability and/or unintentionally causing a collision, I would have stopped at the stop sign but not wave the motor vehicle across. If the driver is hesitant, I would have merely pointed at the stop sign I was stopping at.

Paul Barnard

I roll that very stop sign, almost every time I use that path. I never neglect my responsibility to yield right of way though. I sure as hell wouldn't scold a rider who stopped when 3 different people were crossing with the right of way.

Paul Barnard

What kind of liability might I incur for encouraging someone to exercise their legal right of way.

indyfabz

You waving a driver on could be interpreted by the driver as you telling it’s safe vis-a-vis other road users. If it’s not and there is, say, a vehicle collision, I can see you being dragged into a law suit.

SoSmellyAir

Driver sees you wave, focuses on you, and proceeds to cross intersection, running over cyclist who started behind you but blew the stop sign.

Cyclist sues both driver and you, claiming that driver would have seen cyclist and stopped had you not waved driver through.

indyfabz

Or there is a child approaching from behind on the right. The driver is waved through and cannot see the child because his line of sight is blocked by the first blue X, which is the OP.

A member of our local club is a now retired federal prosecutor. While giving safety classes he would reference a case where one driver waved on another and an accident ensued. The waving driver was found partially liable. No reason that argument could not be raised in a case involving a cyclist.

rsbob 

And that, boys and girls, is why you never waive a vehicle to pass from behind when you can see its clear but they can’t.

SoSmellyAir

I had to explain something similar to quite a few parents when my son was in elementary school.

rsbob 

“Silly Rabbit, some kids never grow up”

Paul Barnard

I'll continue to communicate with drivers that I am comfortable with them proceeding when they determine it's safe.

spelger

I think you need to look at the birds eye view picture. There are no obstructions to block the driver's view. The dumbass that blew the sign got off easy.

genejockey 

So remember folks, sit at the 4 way stop sign while nobody goes, and instead everybody does those little half starts and stops.

indyfabz

I’ll often look away or pretend to be interested in my cycle computer to convey the idea that I’m not going to proceed.

Black wallnut 

Sure except no reasonable person would conclude that a cyclist has a duty or standing to act as a traffic flagger. A waive can and should be interpreted as I am giving up my right of way or acknowledging that you have the right of way.

A problem is drivers that do not understand that it is important to follow right of way rather than incorrectly yield to cyclists and other vehicles because they are either timid or unsure of the rule.

The other green x's, did you loudly articulate STOPPING along with a hand signal? Not that I think you should be responsible for riders sucking your wheel uninvited.

wolfchild

OP isn't at fault here., he did the right thing. There was a stop sign and the two idiots who were behind OP decided to just go through without even slowing down to look, if they got hit it would be 100% their fault for not stopping and yielding to traffic.

wolfchild

It amazes me how some posters will defend the two idiots who failed to yield and were 100% in the wrong and then try to blame OP for being in the wrong.

GhostRider62

I rarely ride MUPs but have seen many bike accidents on them. The ones I have been on are poorly maintained and poorly designed for cyclists. Forget about the joggers, dogs, walkers, bikers coming the other direction taking a selfie crashing into you sort of head up your butt material. The worst are stop signs every 500 yards to cross residential streets. I would much rather be on the main road with the right of way and only deal with cars.

indyfabz

Who is doing that? (That’s a rhetorical question, in case you didn’t get that.)

indyfabz

You missed the point. By waving, he IS acting as a flagman and thus arguably has assumed a duty to the motorist. As a lawyer, it’s my opinion that it’s best not to wave anyone on. Let the motorist decide for themselves whether it’s safe to proceed. In this case, inaction is more prudent choice. That’s the way the law works.

BobbyG

I commute in traffic, and often will put my hands on my hips with a foot down to let a driver with the right of way know that I am not about to start rolling. Sometimes I need to wave and gesture to counter the waves and gestures of "niceholes" who hold up traffic to yield the right of way to me. (I sometimes will go ahead for the sake of keeping traffic moving.)

As far as the event the OP described, I ride with a take-a-look mirror and have a constant view of the road (or path) behind me. In the same situation instead of waving the driver ahead, I think I would have put both arms out, palms down, possibly twisting my body around to face them, and made a repeated downward sweep to hopefully get the cyclist to slow or even stop.......although we never know for certain how each of us would actually act (or react) in the actual moment.

The bottom line is that I have always appreciated these kinds of posts as an opportunity for each of us to consider how to best to handle traffic challenges. And I appreciate the willingness of the posters to hold themselves out to the inevitable scrutiny and abuse inherent in online forums.

Inusuit

I have an issue with drivers attempting to be polite. Waiting to make a left turn. Driver facing me waves me to make the turn completely oblivious to another car in the right lane passing her. Just treat me like any other vehicle.

genejockey 

I like to say, "Don't be polite. Be predictable". I time my arrival at 4-way stops so that there's no question of priority, and generally I will indicate with a head wag for them to go, and generally they will. SOME people try to wave me through, but the thing is, there's a big, reflective piece of glass between us and I can't always see their hands. I wish drivers would figure that one out.