Originally Posted by txags92

Which is exactly why groups like Critical Mass are such a terrible idea. Sure, you can go and block an intersection for 20 minutes and smile and stick your tongue out at all the drivers going ballistic in their cars. Great, glad you had fun! Now, the next time those same drivers see a cyclist out riding alone, how likely are they to think "I should move over and share the road." instead of "Finally, I found one by themselves...lets see if I can park them in a ditch!" Many times we as cyclists help fan the flames of that irrational hatred by not doing the easy little things that would engender some positive feelings with motorists. When you see a car behind you while riding two abreast, sure, maybe the other lane is clear and the car can go around...but how hard is it to move over to single file and make it easier for the car to pass you? We whine because the motorists get upset about a brief delay waiting behind us, but at the same time, sometimes we don't go out of our way to minimize that delay either. Before you get too sanctimonious about how impatient drivers are, think about how many times you have watched other cyclists exhibit bad manners and not "share the road" well and have kept quiet and not called them out for it? Sharing the road is a two way street, and if we can't convince other cyclists to be polite and courteous towards motorists, then what right do we have to expect the same from them?

Originally Posted by AC1074

Just check you tube. There are countless videos posted where cyclists confront drivers. Yes, car drivers do stupid things but actually tracking them & confronting them is a bad idea period. Just let it go and keep doing your thing. The video seems edited to me so its hard to tell what happened exactly but yea luckily it was a bat in the man's hand and not a gun. Sometimes you have to be the bigger person and keep going. Avoid confrontations. I would be crying if someone ran over my bicycle like that.

Originally Posted by genec

How do you react when someone has thrown a full can of beer at your head? How do you react when someone comes up and smokes you with their diesel truck? How do you react when someone leans out a car window and slaps you?

These are just a few of the incidents that you "have to be a bigger person for, eh?"

Originally Posted by DX-MAN

Jimi, hyperbole won't win the day; your "buddy" is a person who'd do the same to YOU if he didn't recognize you on a bike. If you want to be a social 'snake handler', don't blame the rest of us when you get bit.

If being at all popular is more important than what's right (which is NOT running down cyclists with a car), then WE don't wanna be friends with you. I have a co-worker, the only other person in my section, with whom I have always gotten along rather well; we have senses of humor that feed off each other. He's also a white supremacist, as well as a narcissist with borderline sociopathy (right & wrong for him are defined by what benefits him, even to the point of his marriage; when his wife was carrying son #2 , she was hormonal & grouchy -- he was ready to LEAVE!). I continue to gt along with him because it makes the workday go better. But the day will come when we no longer work together, and I won't look back for a second.

I have cut off KIN who gave me haterade. My family was down & out a few years ago, I swallowed my pride & asked my mother for help; instead of saying yes or no, all she could do was grill me about why didn't I do this or that(none of which were options to us). We barely had a relationship after that; the last time I saw her before she passed in hospice was three days before. Even from that deathbed, she was giving me shat.

Saintly? Not necessary. But there ARE limits, and a friend of mine who professes to hate and wishes to target people on the road LIKE me, exceeds those limits.

With friends like THAT, you're better OFF friendless.

Originally Posted by JoeyBike

I could coax someone out of their vehicle nearly every day in the city, and have them sent to jail based on video evidence. I have better things to do and more street sense. Those weekend warriors in the video shown above could have likely acted in a way that did not draw violence from that maniac. Bunch of amateurs.

Originally Posted by johnnymoses

and motorists, never act like they own the road, ignore traffic laws, etc?

Originally Posted by JoeyBike

Bicycle group rides are generally just plain rude to other road users. There are laws against motorists creating "rolling roadblocks" on multi-lane highways and I feel that bike group rides should be handled under the same law. One of our neighboring parishes (county) installed a law requiring more than 8 cyclists in a group to secure a parade permit before riding in the parish. There were all sorts of problems with New Orleans bike clubs clogging up those scenic 2-lane roads and highways in the country nearby. I rode with a club a few times before the law was enacted and I gotta say..."we" deserved it. I was too embarrassed to continue riding with those groups long before the permits were required.

After the permits were required similar confrontations (as the OP) between local farmers/residents and cyclists dropped to zero.

Blocking the road just because we can is bad form IMO. I can't blame the old geiser for WANTING to smash someones helmet in. Thankfully most folks won't go that far.

Originally Posted by AC1074

Just check you tube. There are countless videos posted where cyclists confront drivers. Yes, car drivers do stupid things but actually tracking them & confronting them is a bad idea period. Just let it go and keep doing your thing. The video seems edited to me so its hard to tell what happened exactly but yea luckily it was a bat in the man's hand and not a gun. Sometimes you have to be the bigger person and keep going. Avoid confrontations. I would be crying if someone ran over my bicycle like that.

Originally Posted by genec

Cyclists do not start riding on the road with hate and discontent in their hearts... this is learned... and it is learned due to the way we are treated by motorists. And we're not talking all motorists, so again please do not paint with a broad brush... but cyclists learn hate and discontent when SOME motorists drive by too close and too fast, or when SOME motorists throw stuff at cyclists, or yell at cyclists... over time this stuff grates on a cyclist and the hate grows.

Originally Posted by txags92

Lets try this in the opposite direction and see if you get my point...

"Motorists do not start driving on the road with hate and discontent in their hearts... this is learned... and it is learned due to the way they are treated by cyclists. And we're not talking all cyclists, so again please do not paint with a broad brush... but motorists learn hate and discontent when SOME cyclists slow the motorist down for 10 seconds..

Originally Posted by achoo

Fixed that for reality.

Originally Posted by kmv2

Weird to hear this perspective from you..
So one person's drive is more important than 8 or so people on a group ride? The driver can't wait a few seconds to pass safely?
Sounds like you've been on too many critical mass rides (your videos attest to that style of riding). Any organized club ride I've been on is made up of riders who know what they are doing (you have to do the group ride clinic before you start to go on the rides) and how to manoeuvre properly.

Originally Posted by howsteepisit

But for those few who actually hate cyclists, I wonder if some cleaver advocacy type lawyer could initiate hate crime prosecution?

Originally Posted by howsteepisit

I was thinking of the drivers such as the topic of the original post, and the Dr in CA who appear to have taken matters into their own hands, not the typical jerk drivers (which are way less than 1% of all drivers in my opinion/observation).

Originally Posted by dynodonn

Just about every incident that I had, I was "minding my own business" and following the rules of the road, but a number of motorists still cannot handle that as well, and why I have taken to videoing them.

Originally Posted by kmv2

Sounds like you've been on too many critical mass rides (your videos attest to that style of riding).

Originally Posted by txags92

Lets try this in the opposite direction and see if you get my point...

"Motorists do not start driving on the road with hate and discontent in their hearts... this is learned... and it is learned due to the way they are treated by cyclists. And we're not talking all cyclists, so again please do not paint with a broad brush... but motorists learn hate and discontent when SOME cyclists ride 2 and 3 abreast down busy roads, or deliberately block intersections for long periods of time during unpermitted group rides, or yell and make rude gestures at motorists... over time this stuff grates on a motorist and the hate grows."

See...it really can work both ways. Which hatred comes first is a chicken or egg kind of problem. But the reality is that charlie foxtrots like Critical Mass don't do anything except escalate that hatred in motorists where it already existed and create new hatred in motorists where it didn't exist before. If we are the ones out there promoting "share the road", we have to be willing to accept that we have a responsibility to share it back. If we see cyclists riding 3 abreast when there are cars behind them wanting to pass, or we see people running stop signs and blocking intersections, we should be willing to call them out. If we want motorists to obey the rule of law that says bikes can be on the road, we need to start by obeying the laws ourselves. If we instead give in to frustration and anger and do things like Critical Mass that deliberately disobey the law and inflame tensions between cyclists and motorists, then we are to blame for anything that happens to us at the hands of motorists. We can't claim the high ground if we are not obeying the law ourselves.

Originally Posted by daihard

Yeah, that's more like it. The way I see it is, the motorists in general don't like to be slowed down, no matter how illogical it is. Those cars that illegally pass me on my morning commute (by crossing the double yellow) usually get stopped at the next light, and I easily catch up before the light turns green. It means their illegal overtaking doesn't save them a single second. Worse yet, they probably consume more gas by unnecessarily accelerating, as well as causing the brakes to wear out more.

Originally Posted by howsteepisit

I agree with ya ILTB. The inflammatory rhetoric here gets over the top. I'd probably be a healthier individual if I stopped reading A&S, but like when I used to smoke, its hard to quit.

ANd +1 to ya Joey, your observations of the group ride/critical mass ethos is right on nin how they increase polarizations. I recall that way back when, when I was very involved in bike clubs we were very careful to ride on secondary roads, get into single file whenever any car approached, and even took the step of banning overly aggressive or dangerous riders from our rides. Now days we would likely get sued for such actions.

Originally Posted by JoeyBike

Sunday group rides and Critical Mass rides accomplish basically the same thing: Polarization between motorists and cyclists. I do not partake, and wholly reject both actions as rude and offensive behavior that only reinforces the notion among the general public that cyclists are an arrogant bunch of knuckleheads.

Originally Posted by JoeyBike

I find that NOT obeying so many rules helps me stay ahead of the traffic AND running a video camera fixes the rest.

Originally Posted by kmv2

I don't see how you think this [I find that NOT obeying so many rules helps me stay ahead of the traffic AND running a video camera fixes the rest.] doesn't cause polarization..