tomato coupe

It's the same logical fallacy. He's defining "properly built" as never needs truing, which then allows him to state that properly built wheels never need truing. It's no different than:

1. Serious cyclists all ride carbon frames.
2. People that ride steel frames aren't serious cyclists.

EJM73

Or drop about 5-6 lbs of body weight.

terrymorse 

Nonsense.

There is no mechanism that would cause a properly built wheel to go out of true (outside of damage or abuse).

big john

Or do both.

tomato coupe

You explicitly stated it:

#1#2No true Scotsman ...

terrymorse 

Wrong.

1. A properly built wheel doesn't go out of true.
2. A wheel that goes out of true was not properly built.

Two statements, logically consistent.

And backed up with engineering. There is no mechanism for a wheel to go out of true that isn't damage from an accident or abuse.

genejockey 

I ride both carbon frames and steel frames, and consider myself a frivolous cyclist. And according to my Ancestry.com bloodtest, I AM No True Scotsman, or at least, no more than 20%.

Koyote

Terry is correct -- that is NOT a 'no true Scotsman' fallacy. It is a run-of-the-mill tautology.

Lombard

Ummmmm, this is whay terrymorse said:

"If all wheels were built correctly in the first place, there would be no wheels going out of true."

That's not the same as saying wheels never need trueing. You either have a reading comprehension problem or you're just trolling.

tomato coupe

You only true wheels when they are out of true, so stating they never go out of true is equivalent to stating they never need truing.

Lombard

Obviously a reading comprehension problem. Again, terrymorse never said wheels never need trueing. This is what he said:

"If all wheels were built correctly in the first place, there would be no wheels going out of true."

Maybe you need to re-read both a few times and try again.

Eric F 

I wouldn't count any of it. The suggestion before was that you need to carry a bigger tool/tube kit with you on a lightweight bike than a mid-level one. Whether I'm riding my 16lb Storck, or a 20lb mid-level road bike, I'm going to bring the same tool/tube kit, the same number of bottles, the same phone, the same snacks, and wear the same shoes/helmet/gloves/glasses. Those things change with the length/location of the ride, and the weather, not the weight or quality of the bike.

tomato coupe

They’re only consistent because statement 2 is used to define the term “proper.” You can dream up endless examples of this type of argument, but they’re still logical fallacies.

Another:
1. All true bike mechanics build their own frames.
2. A bike mechanic that doesn’t build his / her own frame isn’t a true mechanic.

tomato coupe

It’s textbook “no true Scotsman”, where one supports one claim by excluding counter examples in a second claim.

big john

I want a 16 pound Storck.

Eric F 

Go get you one!

Lombard

I can't promise the weight as they can get up to 18 lbs, but here is one:

big john

18 pounds is still pretty light. I really like the colors on that one!

shelbyfv

We actually have one stork, the Wood Stork, native to USA. If you are lucky enough to see a flock in flight it will make an impression.

Lombard

I'm looking for one in red because we all know red is faster.

genejockey 

Why would you true a wheel that has not gone out of true?

Eric F 

I've heard the handling can be a little sketchy on those.

big john

More impressive if it was carrying a baby.

big john

I went to their website and they have models which aren't stupid expensive. Don't know if they would qualify as the biggest waste of money in cycling.

I did not see the geometry charts, though. I suppose I could find it somewhere.

The first time I saw a Storck bike was in the early 90s, I think. A guy from Germany brought one over when he moved here and joined our club.

genejockey 

I dunno. That head looks really damn scary for a baby to see.