GhostRider62

Say What?

Ever hear of race on sunday sell on monday

seypat

Now that I got that out of the way, if you think a pro cyclist on one of these teams has very much say over what brands they use, particularly the journeyman/domestiques, I don't know what to tell you. They might have some leeway within a particular brand's line, or gearing choices, but not much say between different brands. At that level, with all of the money being poured into equipment design, I think there's a lot more parity that not. We did have that swimsuit situation a few years ago, though. If something is shown to have a noticable advantage it will get dealt with.

seypat

I have, that's what I was referencing somewhat in my first post. That phrase is usually associated with motorsports, not the kind of competitions we've had going nationwide(in the USA) over the past couple of weeks and continuing through March. In fact, if you look at the recent delevolpments with the NIL agreements in amateur sports, you get a glimpse of how important having the "best equipment, etc" really is. Turn on the TV today and watch one of the NCAA basketball games in progress. See how many different brands/styles of shoes a team will be wearing. It's all about the money.

GhostRider62

If your sponsor is Pinarello and Shimano, you ride those. Period.

Tires can be faked with decals. At one time a chunk of the peloton was on Ducast tubies with other labels on them

Read how hard it was for Josh Poertner of Zipp to convince riders to use wider and lower pressure on Paris Roubaix and to use carbon rims. It took years of convincing the pros. So, they do have a say on gear. It probably took a decade for some of them to recognize aerodynamics almost always trumps lower MOI unless it is purely a hill climb TT. It was the riders who resisted.

seypat

On the flip side, I'm sure the companies do everything they can to satisfy their stars. The low man on the team, maybe not as much. Unless it's something major, it'll get worked out. Even then, it'll get worked out one way or another. Rider has an outburst, then apologizes the next day. All is good.

terrymorse 

Colnago is not taking this lying down:

PeteHski

You mean like the UCI road bike regulations? I'd say they set a pretty strict, uniform standard. It's very much marginal gains territory for those guys setting records.

PeteHski

Going back to the original question posed, I would put good money on it that there is more variation in tyre performance across tyre brands than there is in the frames, wheel sets etc. Being on the best tyres available would be a top priority for me.

That's not to say there may be a massive variation across tyre brands, but it stood out for me when Geraint Thomas was talking about descending wet alpine cols. He said he took note of what tyres various teams were using when deciding who's wheels to follow and avoid!

prj71

Me neither. It's always the rider and not the bike.

GhostRider62

Do you know which tires?

Vittoria and Conti = good?

Schwalbe and Pirelli = bad ?

Michelin = berry, berry good?

dmark 

I thought red bikes were faster.

GhostRider62

You are thinking of women's dresses

merlinextraligh

They do have some say on equipment, but almost exclusively within the range of equipment provided by their sponsors.

I had the opportunity to tour Trek Segifredo’s European service course in 2019.. There was an array of frames and wheel sets. Different wheel/ tire combos intended for Paris Roubaix, and others intended for Flanders. ( it was Holy Week). At the time there were also bikes with disc brakes and rim brakes although Trek was pushing disc hard at the time.

the riders had a whole array of choices. However they were all Trek Bontrager choices. Nothing was in that shop that didn’t have a Trek or Bontrager logo.

occassionally Pros will use gear outside their sponsorships, but it’s typically disguised with the sponsors logos.

and some high profile rides, such as Armstrong or Lemond had the leverage to insist on equipment they wanted. But with very few exceptions Pros ride their sponsors equipment and almost always at least equipment displaying their sponsor’s brand.

seypat

I was responding to your 2nd sentence. In the actual competition speed/whatever is only relevant against the rest of the participants in said competition. It could be the slowest winning speed recorded in that particular race in a decade or whatever time frame you choose. As long as you're in front you win the race. If the rest of the competitors failed to finish, you'd still win no matter the time.

Trakhak

I particularly admire the sock height restrictions.

seypat

I'd say that the evolution of training methods/everyday life living methods, nutrition, and related has had more of an effect than the evolution of equipment. If athletes are better these days, they should be. I look back at some of the general training methods used when I was involved in competitive sports in the 80s and cringe. Now a lot of those methods would be considered dangerous to one's health.

The current average "weekend warrior" in any sport has much more access to useful training info than professionals of even a decade ago. Think about how much evolving modern medicine has improved imjury recovery and turnaround time. Amazing!

bampilot06

Wife said no?

PeteHski

I'm not sure what point you are making here? That they should all ride an identical "control" bike?

PeteHski

He didn't name any other brands apart from Conti, which he trusts for grip. But he was strongly suggesting that at least one other brand was notoriously bad in the wet. In the context he was talking on his personal podcast (discussing some of his infamous crashes and how he managed to keep out of trouble in his successful TDF years) I'm pretty sure there wasn't any sponsor spin involved in those comments. He also mentioned tyre pressures at around 4.5 bar (65 psi) in another podcast. I can't remember the context of how that came up though.

seypat

Somewhat. More along the lines of maybe the rules should apply outside of competition as well. Maybe that a Strava segment or some other "fast" segment should not hold much value. Riding fast or running fast in an actual competition means under the rules that competition. Which could on a control bike or under other controls be limited. But, if there is no actual competion, there are no rules to comply with. Which means that you, or myself, or anyone can/could be faster out of competition on a bike/segment than in a race on that same segment simply because there are no rules. We can do anything we want to go as fast as possible. We could use nonconforming equipment, or stimulants, etc to attain that extra speed which seemed to be the point of your 2nd sentence. The possibilities are endless.

GhostRider62

Standardizing a competition bike would lead to mediocrity. It might work in China or might have in the old USSR.

PeteHski

Okay I think I see what you mean. My road bikes are both UCI compliant, so for me that's good enough for comparing performance with friends and during events. Occasionally I see guys riding aero bars in timed sportives that would be illegal in a road race and no doubt boost their performance, but I don't go there myself.

seypat

We are in agreement then.

GhostRider62

A sportif isn't racing. In the US at least. It might be akin to a personal best TT. Standardization for Strava? ok. Of course, I usually look at others bikes on long events and think, why are they giving up 2 hours riding that thing. Obviously, they don't care to care. If wheels were standardized, we would all still be riding 32H 3x box rims with tubulars partially glued on.

terrymorse 

People using aero bars doesn't bother me, unless it's on a group ride or a mass start event. It's a safety issue there.

I once used some clip-ons at the Solvang Century, because I wanted to check off having done a 5-hour century (which I managed, barely). It didn't feel like cheating, no more than pace lining.