Go Back  Bike Forums > Bike Forums > Road Cycling
Reload this Page >

Rear Light - Flashing or Steady?

Search
Notices
Road Cycling “It is by riding a bicycle that you learn the contours of a country best, since you have to sweat up the hills and coast down them. Thus you remember them as they actually are, while in a motor car only a high hill impresses you, and you have no such accurate remembrance of country you have driven through as you gain by riding a bicycle.” -- Ernest Hemingway

Rear Light - Flashing or Steady?

Thread Tools
 
Search this Thread
 
Old 01-07-24, 02:55 PM
  #1  
terrymorse 
climber has-been
Thread Starter
 
terrymorse's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Palo Alto, CA
Posts: 7,111

Bikes: Scott Addict R1, Felt Z1

Mentioned: 10 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3432 Post(s)
Liked 3,567 Times in 1,793 Posts
Rear Light - Flashing or Steady?

Which type of rear bike light is safer, a steady light or a flashing light?

Somebody did the experiment. A preprint:

Bishop et al, The effect of rear bicycle light configurations on drivers' perception of cyclists' presence and proximity, 2023

Edit: Full text of the article.

Experiment 1: Detect cyclist as quickly as possible.
Result: No difference [detected] between steady and flashing.

Experiment 2: Estimate distance to cyclist.
Result: Flashing light more accurate than steady light.

I've been using a flashing rear light during daylight, and it seems that's the safer choice.
__________________
Ride, Rest, Repeat. ROUVY: terrymorse



Last edited by terrymorse; 01-10-24 at 03:15 PM.
terrymorse is offline  
Likes For terrymorse:
Old 01-07-24, 03:04 PM
  #2  
tomato coupe
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 5,954

Bikes: Colnago, Van Dessel, Factor, Cervelo, Ritchey

Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3955 Post(s)
Liked 7,303 Times in 2,948 Posts
They should have included lights like the Varia that change their mode/pattern when they detect an approaching vehicle.
tomato coupe is offline  
Likes For tomato coupe:
Old 01-07-24, 03:06 PM
  #3  
cb400bill
Forum Moderator
 
cb400bill's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Kalamazoo MI
Posts: 20,650

Bikes: Fuji SL2.1 Carbon Di2 Cannondale Synapse Alloy 4 Trek Checkpoint ALR-5 Viscount Aerospace Pro Colnago Classic Rabobank Schwinn Waterford PMount Raleigh C50 Cromoly Hybrid Legnano Tipo Roma Pista

Mentioned: 59 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3091 Post(s)
Liked 6,601 Times in 3,785 Posts
Flash during the day.

Solid in the night.
__________________












cb400bill is offline  
Likes For cb400bill:
Old 01-07-24, 03:12 PM
  #4  
theblackbullet
Senior Member
 
theblackbullet's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Georgia
Posts: 748

Bikes: I don't even

Mentioned: 10 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 81 Post(s)
Liked 193 Times in 77 Posts
The only time I've ever used the steady mode on my tail light is when I'm riding in a group after dark. Flashing mode almost always otherwise.
theblackbullet is offline  
Likes For theblackbullet:
Old 01-07-24, 03:16 PM
  #5  
Rick_D
Full Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2022
Location: California's capital
Posts: 465

Bikes: Litespeed Firenze, Spot Acme, Specialzed S Works Pro Race, Davidson Stiletto, Colnago Superissimo

Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 133 Post(s)
Liked 300 Times in 172 Posts
Good to see somebody investigating this, since it's not terribly clear to the user which might be better.

Light and Motion has committed to pulsing, rather than flashing beacons. My recollection is they're less dazzling to drivers while still attracting more notice than steady state. Can attest when driving, some strobing bike headlights are pretty hard on the eyes, perhaps affecting perception of distance to the bike itself.

Any kind is better than none, at least when there's traffic!
Rick_D is offline  
Old 01-07-24, 03:26 PM
  #6  
terrymorse 
climber has-been
Thread Starter
 
terrymorse's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Palo Alto, CA
Posts: 7,111

Bikes: Scott Addict R1, Felt Z1

Mentioned: 10 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3432 Post(s)
Liked 3,567 Times in 1,793 Posts
Originally Posted by tomato coupe
They should have included lights like the Varia that change their mode/pattern when they detect an approaching vehicle.
They did. No difference was detected between steady flash and "adaptive flash". At least no difference was reported in the abstract (full article not yet published).
__________________
Ride, Rest, Repeat. ROUVY: terrymorse


terrymorse is offline  
Likes For terrymorse:
Old 01-07-24, 03:31 PM
  #7  
shelbyfv
Expired Member
 
shelbyfv's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: TN
Posts: 11,547
Mentioned: 37 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3674 Post(s)
Liked 5,438 Times in 2,764 Posts
Traditional cycling etiquette is steady mode when riding with a group. Flashing does seem more visible when riding solo. I've been impressed with how much more visible approaching cyclists are when they are using a flashing white front light.
shelbyfv is offline  
Likes For shelbyfv:
Old 01-07-24, 03:43 PM
  #8  
easyupbug 
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 2,682

Bikes: too many sparkly Italians, some sweet Americans and a couple interesting Japanese

Mentioned: 10 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 569 Post(s)
Liked 586 Times in 411 Posts
I watch carefully
for cyclist lights and firmly believe I distinguish a flashing or some of the adaptive flashes even quicker as a cyclist rather than a car/truck/motorcycle. Only reason maybe because some of the flashing lights I have seen are reminiscent of an auto/truck/motorcycle turn signal.
easyupbug is online now  
Likes For easyupbug:
Old 01-07-24, 05:22 PM
  #9  
Koyote
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2017
Posts: 7,887
Mentioned: 38 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6972 Post(s)
Liked 10,969 Times in 4,692 Posts
The next experiment will hopefully involve multiple lights -- perhaps one flasher, one steady, mounted as far apart as possible (one on seatpost or even helmet, one low on seatstay).
Koyote is offline  
Old 01-07-24, 05:47 PM
  #10  
Maelochs
Senior Member
 
Maelochs's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2015
Posts: 15,491

Bikes: 2015 Workswell 066, 2017 Workswell 093, 2014 Dawes Sheila, 1983 Cannondale 500, 1984 Raleigh Olympian, 2007 Cannondale Rize 4, 2017 Fuji Sportif 1 LE

Mentioned: 144 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 7652 Post(s)
Liked 3,479 Times in 1,836 Posts
I haven't seen the methodology but I believe similar tests have been done .... and like @easyupbug I pay attention myself. I find solid lights are more easily confused with roadside markers or reflectors. Flashing is associated with motion in the human brain, which is sort of hardwired to a response .... as far as I know.

No doubt it is far easier to estimate closing rate with s solid light, but I don't care ... the sooner someone notices me the sooner that person will begin planning not to hit me.
Maelochs is offline  
Old 01-07-24, 06:45 PM
  #11  
Sy Reene
Advocatus Diaboli
 
Sy Reene's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: Wherever I am
Posts: 8,640

Bikes: Merlin Cyrene, Nashbar steel CX

Mentioned: 14 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4737 Post(s)
Liked 1,533 Times in 1,004 Posts
Syncopation
Sy Reene is offline  
Old 01-07-24, 08:24 PM
  #12  
Eyes Roll
Full Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2021
Posts: 225
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 104 Post(s)
Liked 78 Times in 49 Posts
Originally Posted by terrymorse
Which type of rear bike light is safer, a steady light or a flashing light?

Somebody did the experiment. A preprint:

Bishop et al, The effect of rear bicycle light configurations on drivers' perception of cyclists' presence and proximity, 2023

Experiment 1: Detect cyclist as quickly as possible.
Result: No difference between steady and flashing.

Experiment 2: Estimate distance to cyclist.
Result: Flashing light more accurate than steady light.

I've been using a flashing rear light during daylight, and it seems that's the safer choice.
A safety-colored vest or jacket with reflective material enhances your visibility and is generally safer than bike lights, both during the day and at night. My preference of color is safety yellow. A blinking red tail light definitely draws the attention of car drivers passing from behind and from a far-off distance at night, but may not be enough during the day and a safety colored vest or jacket provides much better visibility. A vest or jacket is bigger than a bike light, so, it provides greater visibility.

I never ride my bikes without a safety yellow vest, helmet, and gloves on.
Eyes Roll is offline  
Old 01-07-24, 11:01 PM
  #13  
rsbob 
Grupetto Bob
 
rsbob's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2020
Location: Seattle-ish
Posts: 6,226

Bikes: Bikey McBike Face

Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2585 Post(s)
Liked 5,645 Times in 2,923 Posts
Originally Posted by Eyes Roll
A safety-colored vest or jacket with reflective material enhances your visibility and is generally safer than bike lights, both during the day and at night. My preference of color is safety yellow. A blinking red tail light definitely draws the attention of car drivers passing from behind and from a far-off distance at night, but may not be enough during the day and a safety colored vest or jacket provides much better visibility. A vest or jacket is bigger than a bike light, so, it provides greater visibility.

I never ride my bikes without a safety yellow vest, helmet, and gloves on.
I understand your preference for a vest but what data do you have which supports your assertion that a vest provides better visibility than a high intensity flashing light?

there are lots of low intensity lights but there are some which can be seen a mile away in bright sun. I don’t begrudge your fondness for a yellow vest but high-visibility yellow-green have been demonstrated to be more visible.
__________________
Road 🚴🏾‍♂️ & Mountain 🚵🏾‍♂️







rsbob is offline  
Old 01-07-24, 11:28 PM
  #14  
Eyes Roll
Full Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2021
Posts: 225
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 104 Post(s)
Liked 78 Times in 49 Posts
Your brightest bike tail light that can be seen from a mile away may run out of battery/charge behind your back and turn off without your knowledge, but a safety colored vest will always have your back, providing visibility and safety. You make your call.

Eyes Roll is offline  
Old 01-08-24, 03:35 AM
  #15  
LesterOfPuppets
cowboy, steel horse, etc
 
LesterOfPuppets's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: The hot spot.
Posts: 44,853

Bikes: everywhere

Mentioned: 71 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 12779 Post(s)
Liked 7,695 Times in 4,084 Posts
Originally Posted by Eyes Roll
Your brightest bike tail light that can be seen from a mile away may run out of battery/charge behind your back and turn off without your knowledge, but a safety colored vest will always have your back, providing visibility and safety. You make your call.
I glance down and see my seatpost mounted light reflecting off my chainstays and cassette. I'll know if it fails within minutes. Back when I had a 60-75 minute night commute, I'd bring two rear blinkies JIC.

Definitely wouldn't trade a rear light for a vest but I could see going for the belt and suspenders approach.

Last edited by LesterOfPuppets; 01-08-24 at 03:39 AM.
LesterOfPuppets is online now  
Likes For LesterOfPuppets:
Old 01-08-24, 04:00 AM
  #16  
znomit
Zoom zoom zoom zoom bonk
 
znomit's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: New Zealand
Posts: 4,624

Bikes: Giant Defy, Trek 1.7c, BMC GF02, Fuji Tahoe, Scott Sub 35, Kona Rove, Trek Verve+2

Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 551 Post(s)
Liked 722 Times in 366 Posts
Originally Posted by Eyes Roll
Your brightest bike tail light that can be seen from a mile away may run out of battery/charge behind your back and turn off without your knowledge, but a safety colored vest will always have your back, providing visibility and safety. You make your call.

All those vests are invisible to a car with dipped beams. Most clothing friendly reflective material tends to work poorly in the wet too.
znomit is offline  
Likes For znomit:
Old 01-08-24, 04:50 AM
  #17  
PeteHski
Senior Member
 
PeteHski's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2021
Posts: 8,451
Mentioned: 12 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4415 Post(s)
Liked 4,868 Times in 3,013 Posts
Originally Posted by Eyes Roll
Your brightest bike tail light that can be seen from a mile away may run out of battery/charge behind your back and turn off without your knowledge, but a safety colored vest will always have your back, providing visibility and safety. You make your call.

A Garmin Varia battery lasts about 10 hours in daylight flash mode (which is seriously bright) and the head unit warms you when the battery is going flat, so that is not an issue.

I rode a sportive event a couple of years ago and at the end another cyclist came up to me and commented how he had been using my flashing tail light as a beacon to chase down when he was over half a mile behind on the road. This was in broad daylight.
PeteHski is online now  
Likes For PeteHski:
Old 01-08-24, 05:06 AM
  #18  
PeteHski
Senior Member
 
PeteHski's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2021
Posts: 8,451
Mentioned: 12 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4415 Post(s)
Liked 4,868 Times in 3,013 Posts
I prefer to use a flashing rear light (Garmin Varia). As a motorist I have observed that I pay instant attention to flashing lights as they are associated with a hazard or emergency. I may not see a flashing light any earlier, but I will pay more attention to it than a steady light. Turn indicators are flashing to attract your attention. If they were steady lights then you probably wouldn’t notice them.

Most UK cyclists use flashing rear lights for the same reason I do. A relatively slow moving cyclist in traffic is basically a road hazard. In the UK, motorists will often put on their flashing hazard warning lights if they are slowing down approaching a traffic jam to warn following drivers to slow. Or if they are driving very slowly for some other reason. A bicycle with a flashing rear light conveys the same message ie hey be careful I’m a slow moving hazard!
PeteHski is online now  
Old 01-08-24, 05:28 AM
  #19  
Maelochs
Senior Member
 
Maelochs's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2015
Posts: 15,491

Bikes: 2015 Workswell 066, 2017 Workswell 093, 2014 Dawes Sheila, 1983 Cannondale 500, 1984 Raleigh Olympian, 2007 Cannondale Rize 4, 2017 Fuji Sportif 1 LE

Mentioned: 144 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 7652 Post(s)
Liked 3,479 Times in 1,836 Posts
Here is another issue ... if the driver isn't looking ....

Also in the photos above the yellow vest stands out ... but all the cyclists are visible. If the driver is paying attention, s/he will see what's ahead. Whether or not I have lights, the car has some pretty bright lights .... if the driver is paying attention .....

During the day I am not worrying about being more visible than everything else on the road ... and since I have been riding mostly safely for all these decades I have to assume a hi-viz vest is not a huge benefit during the day. At night I prefer to wear brighter clothing because a car's headlights might only cross over me for a short time ... but really, the question is also one of contrast. if I am dressed all in white on a white bike riding along a white fence then even if the headlights pass over me .....

Anyway, if high-viz were the answer, no one wearing high-viz would get hit and people not wearing high-viz would get hit .... which seems not to be the case.

I have also been riding at night and had my light fail (particularly back when bike lights were pretty lame) and yet ... I am still here. . I have even spotted ninja cyclists at night outside of the range of my lights just because there are subtle flickerings in the dark. Our eyes can do that ... it is one of the reasons why we weren't all eaten back when people got eaten.

In any case, tests seem to have shown that the type of lighting which is most immediately recognized by drivers as "Bicycle!" is a pedal-mounted light, or an ankle light. Apparently nothing else on the road has the same light signature as an ankle or pedal light. Yet, we put all our technological wizardry into tail lights. Surely we could develop a pedal light or a shoe light or something which would be very light, very small, and easily rechargeable ... but no one wants one.

Whatever ... when cyclists get his, it isn't always because they weren't using lights or hi-viz. Last breakdown I saw, a few years back, was that a huge number of cyclists who ended up in the hospital were salmoning and/or riding without lights at night ... so not only were they not seen but they were coming from unexpected directions .... but there was no correlation with brighter lights or high-viz. Also, alcohol use by either or both driver and rider correlated high.

Which is the main point: You can wear whatever, and a bad driver will hit you. Just last week a lady in Gulf Stream, Florida plowed into a bunch of cyclists, all using lights and some wearing high-viz, killing one and hospitalizing six others. A coupe years ago, a lady in Davie, Florida, plowed into a bout two dozen riders because she was looking for condiments for her fast food burger ... two died.

Lights are an aid, hi-viz probably never hurts, but luck and awareness are what we really need. And since we cannot control our fates .... I just accept that even if I wear high-viz and use two, flashing out-of-synch tail lights and a solid light, and an ankle light, some idiot might run me over from behind. Until I see one headlight beam on each side of me, I won't know ..... but it is more likely that I will fall in the shower and crack my head on the faucet.

That is why I wear high-viz in the shower.
Maelochs is offline  
Likes For Maelochs:
Old 01-08-24, 06:07 AM
  #20  
PeteHski
Senior Member
 
PeteHski's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2021
Posts: 8,451
Mentioned: 12 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4415 Post(s)
Liked 4,868 Times in 3,013 Posts
Originally Posted by Maelochs
Here is another issue ... if the driver isn't looking ....

Which is the main point: You can wear whatever, and a bad driver will hit you. Just last week a lady in Gulf Stream, Florida plowed into a bunch of cyclists, all using lights and some wearing high-viz, killing one and hospitalizing six others. A coupe years ago, a lady in Davie, Florida, plowed into a bout two dozen riders because she was looking for condiments for her fast food burger ... two died.
I think where all the viz and flashing lights help are when motorists are looking, but not really paying much attention. The more you stand out, the more likely it is that you will draw their attention.

Motorists tend to focus on the biggest and most threatening objects in their field of view, such as large trucks, buses and other cars. Cyclists are both small and non-threatening. Flashing lights just help to address that inherent disadvantage by triggering the motorists’ hazard warning instinct.

But if they are not looking at all then there Is nothing you can do. Just have to hope the truck hits them before they hit you!
PeteHski is online now  
Likes For PeteHski:
Old 01-08-24, 06:11 AM
  #21  
Maelochs
Senior Member
 
Maelochs's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2015
Posts: 15,491

Bikes: 2015 Workswell 066, 2017 Workswell 093, 2014 Dawes Sheila, 1983 Cannondale 500, 1984 Raleigh Olympian, 2007 Cannondale Rize 4, 2017 Fuji Sportif 1 LE

Mentioned: 144 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 7652 Post(s)
Liked 3,479 Times in 1,836 Posts
The next big cycling safety device will be a compact but ridiculously powerful 5G transmitter so cyclists show up on the cell phones of all drivers withing a quarter-mile radius.
Maelochs is offline  
Likes For Maelochs:
Old 01-08-24, 07:01 AM
  #22  
eduskator
Senior Member
 
eduskator's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2019
Location: Québec, Canada
Posts: 2,114

Bikes: SL8 Pro, TCR beater

Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 989 Post(s)
Liked 586 Times in 440 Posts
Flashing. It's an eye catcher. You want to draw as much attention as possible.

It doesn't make a difference? I would like to see / read more research on this.
eduskator is offline  
Likes For eduskator:
Old 01-08-24, 07:43 AM
  #23  
datlas 
Should Be More Popular
 
datlas's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Malvern, PA (20 miles West of Philly)
Posts: 43,056

Bikes: 1986 Alpine (steel road bike), 2009 Ti Habenero, 2013 Specialized Roubaix

Mentioned: 560 Post(s)
Tagged: 2 Thread(s)
Quoted: 22600 Post(s)
Liked 8,928 Times in 4,160 Posts
Originally Posted by eduskator
Flashing. It's an eye catcher. You want to draw as much attention as possible.

It doesn't make a difference? I would like to see / read more research on this.
Realize this study was based on people watching films/videos of cyclists and not drivers looking at actual cyclists.

That would be a better study but more complicated/expensive to do, so I am not holding my breath on that one.
__________________
Originally Posted by rjones28
Addiction is all about class.
datlas is offline  
Old 01-08-24, 07:49 AM
  #24  
eduskator
Senior Member
 
eduskator's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2019
Location: Québec, Canada
Posts: 2,114

Bikes: SL8 Pro, TCR beater

Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 989 Post(s)
Liked 586 Times in 440 Posts
Originally Posted by datlas
Realize this study was based on people watching films/videos of cyclists and not drivers looking at actual cyclists.

That would be a better study but more complicated/expensive to do, so I am not holding my breath on that one.
Yes. Hence why I would like to see more research on this. I read the summary and I'm not convinced that this is a strong or very credible study.

Seems like a no brainer to me that flashing lights are seen quicker by the human brains than steady lights. However, I could be biased.
eduskator is offline  
Likes For eduskator:
Old 01-08-24, 08:03 AM
  #25  
datlas 
Should Be More Popular
 
datlas's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Malvern, PA (20 miles West of Philly)
Posts: 43,056

Bikes: 1986 Alpine (steel road bike), 2009 Ti Habenero, 2013 Specialized Roubaix

Mentioned: 560 Post(s)
Tagged: 2 Thread(s)
Quoted: 22600 Post(s)
Liked 8,928 Times in 4,160 Posts
Originally Posted by eduskator
Yes. Hence why I would like to see more research on this. I read the summary and I'm not convinced that this is a strong or very credible study.

Seems like a no brainer to me that flashing lights are seen quicker by the human brains than steady lights. However, I could be biased.
I suspect you are correct. I also suspect that a film/video does NOT capture the "alarm" and brightness of a flashing light due to various reasons including S/N ratio, FPS and other technical reasons I have no understanding of.

So the study has limitations.

A real world study would be much more useful, but as above I am not holding my breath on it.
__________________
Originally Posted by rjones28
Addiction is all about class.
datlas is offline  


Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service -

Copyright © 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.