Thomas DeGent no fan of hookless…
03-06-24, 01:38 PM
#201
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Hyperbole aside, the "scare-mongering" and subsequent UCI rule was prompted by some pretty gory injuries in the peloton (no limbs lost but rather ugly cuts down to the bone), and some of the injuries didn't even involve a crash -- they just rubbed against another rider's bike, not that unusual in a race. The sliced up soft tissue injuries were caused by manufacturers leaving a sharp edge on the rotors. Basically, manufacturers were selling a rotating knife with a 90-degree sharp edge.
Manufacturers responded to the UCI rule by doing the absolute minimum: cutting a tiny chamfer on the 90-degree edge to "dull the blade".
Manufacturers responded to the UCI rule by doing the absolute minimum: cutting a tiny chamfer on the 90-degree edge to "dull the blade".
03-06-24, 01:44 PM
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03-06-24, 01:50 PM
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My favorite example is this one, where the injury was clearly from a chainring, but a bunch of pro riders terrified of new technology spouted off on social media about disc brake rotors anyway: https://www.cyclingweekly.com/news/l...-brakes-208497
03-06-24, 02:12 PM
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Manufacturers responded to the UCI rule by doing the absolute minimum: cutting a tiny chamfer on the 90-degree edge to "dull the blade".
03-06-24, 02:28 PM
#205
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03-06-24, 02:32 PM
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Chains definitely never come off of chainrings during crashes, right? They're like hooked rims... the chain is just absolutely welded on there.
My favorite example is this one, where the injury was clearly from a chainring, but a bunch of pro riders terrified of new technology spouted off on social media about disc brake rotors anyway: https://www.cyclingweekly.com/news/l...-brakes-208497
My favorite example is this one, where the injury was clearly from a chainring, but a bunch of pro riders terrified of new technology spouted off on social media about disc brake rotors anyway: https://www.cyclingweekly.com/news/l...-brakes-208497
03-06-24, 02:43 PM
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You're not seriously contending that disc brakes are causing injuries, are you?
The cycling media and pro riders don't talk about it anymore, so either the UCI rule worked, or the concern was never real to begin with. Or they all got checks from Big Disc.
03-06-24, 02:57 PM
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03-06-24, 03:03 PM
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It's not like this is a new phenomenon. Riders (including a few at the very top of the sport) have been using hookless rims for a few years now.
03-06-24, 03:05 PM
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Here's just one: The Lyon Firm -- Defective Bicycles
"An experienced product liability lawyer can assist in evaluating the root cause of the failure. To build a compelling case, there must be evidence that the design of the bike was defective, a manufacturing defect existed, or the manufacturer was negligent in the manner in which the bike was tested or sold.
"The Lyon Firm works with design engineers and metallurgists to determine the root cause of the bike failure to trace the defect back to a design or manufacturing source."Compensation may be awarded for incurred and future medical expenses, pain and suffering, lost wages, as well as punitive damages against a manufacturer for conscious disregard for the safety of consumers."
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03-06-24, 03:12 PM
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People get injured on bikes every day, and lawyers are at the ready to get them money. If they can show a defective product, like the brakes, sometimes they get money from manufacturers' insurance companies. It's a big industry.
Here's just one: The Lyon Firm -- Defective Bicycles
"An experienced product liability lawyer can assist in evaluating the root cause of the failure. To build a compelling case, there must be evidence that the design of the bike was defective, a manufacturing defect existed, or the manufacturer was negligent in the manner in which the bike was tested or sold.
"The Lyon Firm works with design engineers and metallurgists to determine the root cause of the bike failure to trace the defect back to a design or manufacturing source."Compensation may be awarded for incurred and future medical expenses, pain and suffering, lost wages, as well as punitive damages against a manufacturer for conscious disregard for the safety of consumers."
Here's just one: The Lyon Firm -- Defective Bicycles
"An experienced product liability lawyer can assist in evaluating the root cause of the failure. To build a compelling case, there must be evidence that the design of the bike was defective, a manufacturing defect existed, or the manufacturer was negligent in the manner in which the bike was tested or sold.
"The Lyon Firm works with design engineers and metallurgists to determine the root cause of the bike failure to trace the defect back to a design or manufacturing source."Compensation may be awarded for incurred and future medical expenses, pain and suffering, lost wages, as well as punitive damages against a manufacturer for conscious disregard for the safety of consumers."
Is this because the UCI adopted a rule that requires a minuscule chamfer on the edge of the rotor, or because disc brakes were never really a problem to begin with?
Either way, responding to this conversation with links to an injury lawyer's website makes absolutely no sense.
03-06-24, 03:19 PM
#212
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I wrote that the manufacturers' fix may not have satisfied the injury lawyers, was challenged, so I provided an example of such an injury lawyer who is ready to take up an injured cyclist's case.
So the claim that this contribution "makes absolutely no sense" is in itself nonsensical.
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03-06-24, 03:28 PM
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Hyperbole aside, the "scare-mongering" and subsequent UCI rule was prompted by some pretty gory injuries in the peloton (no limbs lost but rather ugly cuts down to the bone), and some of the injuries didn't even involve a crash -- they just rubbed against another rider's bike, not that unusual in a race. The sliced up soft tissue injuries were caused by manufacturers leaving a sharp edge on the rotors. Basically, manufacturers were selling a rotating knife with a 90-degree sharp edge.
Manufacturers responded to the UCI rule by doing the absolute minimum: cutting a tiny chamfer on the 90-degree edge to "dull the blade".
Manufacturers responded to the UCI rule by doing the absolute minimum: cutting a tiny chamfer on the 90-degree edge to "dull the blade".
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03-06-24, 03:32 PM
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03-06-24, 04:37 PM
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03-06-24, 06:58 PM
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It makes sense, and it is on topic.
I wrote that the manufacturers' fix may not have satisfied the injury lawyers, was challenged, so I provided an example of such an injury lawyer who is ready to take up an injured cyclist's case.
So the claim that this contribution "makes absolutely no sense" is in itself nonsensical.
I wrote that the manufacturers' fix may not have satisfied the injury lawyers, was challenged, so I provided an example of such an injury lawyer who is ready to take up an injured cyclist's case.
So the claim that this contribution "makes absolutely no sense" is in itself nonsensical.
03-06-24, 07:11 PM
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I'm one of those guys who reaches speeds of over 50 mph on descents, regularly. My regular 18 continuous miles of mountain descent is in a rock strewn canyon.
I watch carefully and often stop to sweep or carry rocks off the shoulder of the road. My bikes all have 25mm IW hookless rims and 28/30mm tires running no more than 55psi. I'm not worried about the hookless rims. All of my carbon wheelsets are from BTLOS. They charge the same price for hooked or hookless wheelsets. Take your pick. Mine all cost under $800, delivered. I also select no spoke access holes, so no rim tape required.
https://btlos.com/all-road/ar-clinch...-carbon-wheels
I watch carefully and often stop to sweep or carry rocks off the shoulder of the road. My bikes all have 25mm IW hookless rims and 28/30mm tires running no more than 55psi. I'm not worried about the hookless rims. All of my carbon wheelsets are from BTLOS. They charge the same price for hooked or hookless wheelsets. Take your pick. Mine all cost under $800, delivered. I also select no spoke access holes, so no rim tape required.
https://btlos.com/all-road/ar-clinch...-carbon-wheels
03-06-24, 08:51 PM
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03-07-24, 12:38 AM
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03-07-24, 11:21 AM
#221
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https://btlos.com/all-road/ar-clinch...arbon-wheelset
03-07-24, 11:46 AM
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The WARC49 is just the hooked version of the WARL49. Both have the same 31mm external width, but the hooked version has a 24mm internal width, instead of 25mm. If you're worried about hookless, that's what you should buy. I'm skeptical that it will make any difference if you're traveling 50 mph and have a major puncture. I've been riding high speed descents in Colorado since 2003. I'm not worried about it.
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03-07-24, 12:26 PM
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Anyways, I still agree with your question of what is the advantage in this specific instance(BTLOS). I just purchased some BTLOS wheels in January and got hooked rims because I dont have the interest to think about potential compatibility or psi. 30g or 1mm of internal width differences are not important to me at all though.
I guess if someone genuinely thinks 1mm of internal width is important when the profile is already modern(wide), then it makes sense to value that. I struggle to see when that would actually be important though.
03-07-24, 12:30 PM
#224
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I didn't miss the question. If you're a believer, then you'll be certain that your tire will never come off. No one has ever had a tire come off a hooked rim - absolutely can't happen, right?
03-07-24, 12:33 PM
#225
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You are calling people cheap and claiming they are motivated by saving a few bucks when the topic is aftermarket performance wheels that are in the top 20% of potential aftermarket wheel costs.
I get what you are claiming, that even when it comes to an expensive luxury item, the cost difference between two options is whats motivating people, but I really dont think that is the case.
- its already been shown that very few options even exist where there is an option to buy a wheel in hooked and hookless, the hooked costs more, and the lower cost is why people buy the hookless option.
- its already been shown that a popular up and coming wheel brand offers rims and wheel builds in hooked and hookless for the same price, so lower cost isnt why people buy the hookless option.
Dont let reality get in the way of a good misinterpretation of the issue though.
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