daihard 

I need some advice here.

My new commute route has a fairly steep descent where I have to turn left in the middle of it. I usually take the lane there. Since there's usually cars behind me, I would like to signal my intention to turn. The problem is, it's hard for me to keep the bike balanced while braking just with my right hand. Because of that, I end up keeping both hands on the handlebar nd can't signal ahead of time.

I personally feel that I just lack the proper braking skill, and that I need to practice braking with my right hand without losing stability. Anyone have tips on how I can work on that efficiently?

[ADD] One potential reason braking just with my right hand is hard for me is because I'm left-handed.

Thank you.

Maelochs

That is potentially tricky .... first I agree, practice ... second if it were me I would take the lane so that cars wouldn't pass me.

rm -rf

My reactions:

1. Is there any alternate route you can take? (I'm assuming "no".) Is there anywhere to pull off near the left turn, to clear traffic? I'd even go farther downhill a little past the turn if necessary.

2. keeping speed in check on the way down is a lot easier than braking hard toward the bottom of the hill. To keep speed down: braking hard for a second or two, coasting and repeating.
However, that's a great method when there's no traffic or other riders behind. It's not very good in traffic, since the rider is varying their speed suddenly.

3. yeah, take the lane! Ride in the left tire track. And have a very bright blinky light too -- which is necessary when commuting in traffic anyway.

4. one handed braking practice -- with no traffic, on shallower grades.
But: braking with just the rear brake, on a fairly steep downhill, and trying to slow enough for the turn: This could require continuous braking, which isn't good for brake fade and rim heating. Pulsing just the back brake isn't very effective to actually slow enough.

5. Do you sometimes have to stop at the left turn to wait for traffic climbing the hill? (I assume this isn't a stop sign or stop light turn?) That likely takes both hands to do a full stop. I like to keep my left hand pointing left, so the turn is obvious. That's practical on flat roads, not so much on downhills.

6. Do you have an eyeglass mirror? That's critical for me when monitoring traffic behind me. It's so much easier when I know there is or isn't a gap in traffic behind me, and that no impatient driver is doing a risky pass.

shelbyfv

I'd modify the route even if it added a couple of blocks.

BobbyG

In similar situations I have shook a leg in the direction of the turn. Don't know if it's effective. I use toe clips on some of my bikes and straight platforms on others.

I suppose one of those cheap LED turn signal setups I see on the online stores would work.

Chuck M 

If you are already taking the lane, hopefully vehicles behind you are already aware of you. A rear light should aid in them seeing you. I signal before the turn and then return my hand to the bar before actually taking the turn.

What factors could be interfering with this perceived instability? Because you are commuting, you are possibly packing items. If so are they on a rack or backpack. Also what kind of bike? Commuter, road bike, mountain bike and what kind of bars?

wheelreason

Yeah, that can be a tricky left as described, it depends on the grade, how straight the road is and visibility range. What I do in similar situations is check behind for traffic, then signal a left to take the lane and move to the extreme left, then apply brakes with both hands, then signal the turn and take one more look behind, then my attention goes to oncoming traffic on the road I'm on, and then the one I'm turning into.

Troul 

Id choose personal safety before gesturing a turn.

If that's not an acceptable logic, maybe pull to the side & wait for traffic to clear & reoccupy the lane to resume your direction.

Mtracer

If this turn is not being made at an intersection with a stop sign or left turn lane, I'd be reluctant to do that in traffic downhill or not. I'll do similar things, but I ride or stop on the shoulder until there is a gap in traffic that allows me to cross the lane(s) and make the turn without any concern for traffic.

But as far as signaling, turning and braking, I signal first, then brake and turn with both hands on the bars. If it's so steep you can't really take your hands off the brakes to signal, and so much traffic that you risk getting run over. I'd figure out a different way to handle this. Even using a crosswalk at the next opportunity to get to the other side of the road.

Iride01 

AFAIK most state laws say that you don't have to signal if you cannot safely maintain control of your bike. So just drop the hand down for a moment if you can. A car behind you will likely see the momentary signal, and unless they need it for their court room defense, they'll realize that you don't mean that you were slowing only during the moment you had your hand down.

noimagination

Personally I agree with you that heavy braking with only one hand on the bars is too dangerous. Yes, it can be done, but if it's on your commute I think that the risk of something going wrong some day (what if you hit a pothole, for example - there are soon going to be a lot fewer daylight hours), and the possible consequences of something going wrong, are too high for you to do this routinely.

Choosing a different route, as others have suggested, is the best alternative if it is feasible. The only other alternative I see is to brake to a speed that's slow enough, and do this early enough, that you can stop braking (or, at least, brake gently enough that you can maintain good control) long enough to signal, then get back on your brakes to make the turn. I've done that a few times and I'm still here, though of course I have no other way to gauge the effectiveness of this strategy.

As a motorist I personally would rather be stuck behind a cyclist who was going a bit slower and informed me what was going on, rather than someone going faster who then did something unexpected - like taking a left in the middle of a descent. There are probably others who don't agree, however, and would rather you just "get out of the way" as quickly as possible. You know your situation and your area best, so you would be the best judge as to which strategy is best.

CAT7RDR

Spot On! I know I suck in those types of situations and I do not want to be a hood ornament.
A man has to know his limitations.

delbiker1 

IMO, in most solo riding scenarios, hand gesturing for turns and such while on a bicycle are not important, and, can certainly make some situations less safe. I think, for a significant percentage of vehicle operators, they are paying no attention to what cyclists are doing, and they are going to dislike cyclists no matter the scenario.

55murray

IMHO one handed braking is a "skill" that will cause you far more trouble than if you never learn it.

rsbob 

Without a designated left hand turn lane and no ability to signal, I would be hesitant to take the lane. If there is a designated turn lane I would have zero issue using that without signaling. I do it all the time with no problems

if scenario 1. I would cross the street and then stop and wait for the signal to change and then go with that cross traffic

drlogik 

I've been known to swing my elbow and tilt my head in the direction of my turn two or three times if I'm in heavy traffic and can't remain on the berm or bike path. I make it very obvious. I don't know how drivers interpret that action but if I saw a cyclist do that, I figure they want to make a turn.

Maelochs

I bear you no disrespect, Mr. @rsob, but I cannot see the slightest sensible justification for this position.

If there is no turn lane (and on most road there is not,) that That is Exactly the situation in which one should take the lane. One takes the lane to prevent vehicles from trying to overtake on the left in any of a number of situations in which having a vehicle overtake on the left would be problematical.

Might I quote the Florida Traffic Control Statute section 316 (this is the same wording used in almost every other state ... I have ridden in over three dozen, as I count (not a math major, but still) and checked the laws for each:

5)(a) A person operating a bicycle upon a roadway at less than the normal speed of traffic at the time and place and under the conditions then existing must ride in the bicycle lane or, if there is no bicycle lane on the roadway, as close as practicable to the right-hand curb or edge of the roadway except under any of the following situations:
1. When overtaking and passing another bicycle or vehicle proceeding in the same direction.
2. When preparing for a left turn at an intersection or into a private road or driveway.
3. When reasonably necessary to avoid any condition or potential conflict, including, but not limited to, a fixed or moving object, parked or moving vehicle, bicycle, pedestrian, animal, surface hazard, turn lane, or substandard-width lane, which makes it unsafe to continue along the right-hand curb or edge or within a bicycle lane. For the purposes of this subsection, a “substandard-width lane” is a lane that is too narrow for a bicycle and another vehicle to travel safely side by side within the lane. (https://m.flsenate.gov/Statutes/316.2065)

The freaking Law says that if you are taking a left with no turn lane, you have the option of taking the lane. With more than 50 years of traffic-avoiding experience (most of it involving daily rides) I can attest that taking the lane fro a left turn makes a world of sense.

If there is a turn lane You Don't Have to "Take the Lane." You just get into the turn lane. And if I ama in the turn lane I would Still signal, if I could.

Using common sense .... if I am riding downhill rapidly and want to take a left turn, I have three potential risk scenarios.

First, a car could be coming out of the left-hand side street and turning in either direction. If the car is turning right, it should never cross the path of the descending rider, but I wouldn't trust the driver. If the car is turning left, into the lane I am occupying, so long as it turns first, I am fine.

Second, there is oncoming traffic, in which case, I cannot always safely turn from anywhere on the road surface. That is a simple judgment call, as to whether the closing speed allows me time to make the turn. If I have enough room, can turn from the far right edge, clip the apex and end up at the far right edge of the side street ... maximum efficiency. If the oncoming car is too close, I simply cannot turn safely anywhere in the travel lane.

Third, there is a car or cars closing from behind me, which might try to pass on the left as I slow. THIS is exactly why I would take the lane. I can see the cars in scenarios One and Two ... but I cannot watch the cars behind me so the only way to work with them in a safe fashion would be to ... Take The Lane. The cars can pass on my right if they are that impatient.

This is also problematical, because you would be crossing mid-street ("jaywalking") and cars might not see you. it is however a valid option, so long as you manage the risk.

There is a particular left turn on a route I often ride, which is just over the crest of a nice little hill (something most of you here wouldn't even cal a hill, but whatever ... I am old and fat and weak.) Because the runt is over the crest, it is on the downhill, and sweeping across the road and clipping the pax as mentioned above feels really good (I get a little Boy Racer frisson if I hit it right.) However, since it is over the crest, taking the lane is problematical---a car cresting the hill might not expect to see a cyclist in the left-hand third of the lane. There is a stub of a side road on the right ... about 20 feet of pavement for a road which was never finished (I guess a development went bankrupt before it was built.)

Because I can position myself perpendicular to the main road, which gives me excellent lines of sight, I have no issue pulling into the stub road on the right and then crossing. I can be fully off the road, ready to roll, and see in every direction.

If I were on the side of the road trying to look uphill over my shoulder, and trying to launch downhill and turn ... I would feel less safe. To each his own.
*****************************************
Here is an option no one seems to have considered: Slow Down.

If the OP knows he needs to take a right tun partway down the hill, why not brake intermittently so that you can approach the turn at a speed which permits safe signalling?

Why? Because the thrill of riding fast is greater than the desire to signal the turn?

if someone assays to me, "I cannot ride safely and go fast at this point in my ride," I would say, "Slow down." Seems sensible. Slow down Before the turn, so that you are not braking so hard that you are in fear of safely signalling the turn.

Or, accept that you crave the thrill of the speed more than the possible added safety of the signal, and go for it.

So long as the speed at which you ride you bike is totally in the control of You, the Rider, you cannot complain that you are going to fast .... only that you are not riding smart enough.

Well, that is one possible point of view. Whether it works for anyone is not really important. it is just an opinion.

But consider this ... if you were taking the lane, and a car came up behind you, and, without signalling, cut sharply from the outside of the right lane, across your path, to make the same turn you were about to make .... and sad, "Yeah, sorry, I couldn't signal, I was going too fast ... " how do you think people would view that?

rsbob 

Without a designated left hand turn lane and no ability to signal, I would be hesitant to take the lane. If there is a designated turn lane I would have zero issue using that without signaling. I do it all the time with no problems

if scenario 1. I would cross the street and then stop and wait for the signal to change and then go with that cross traffic

Iride01 

It'd be pretty hard to find a route to ride around here if one has to have a dedicated turn lane when going from one road to the other. Personally I think most motorist will get the idea that you want to turn left if you are on the left side of the lane, slowing and a place to turn is coming up. Even if you don't signal. But of course your traffic and driver attitudes there may not be what we have here.

Now for the motorist that are uncaring, unobservant, a psychopath, or anything else, they'll be a issue no matter what you do whether the road has a dedicated turn lane or not. Especially if they want to turn left also.

daihard 

Thank you for all the great advice, everyone! Let me address this particular reply o clarify my situation and share with you what I believe I should do now.

Yes, I take the lane exactly because I don't want drivers to try and pass me on the left before and while I turn left. Even so, some drivers have crossed the double yellow into the oncoming lane to pass me. I'd like to be able to signal to reduce the risk of being hit by those impatient people.

The tricky thing is that it's a T-intersection where I turn left, so the street has no crossing street on the right. It means there's really no safe spot to stop and wait for the traffic to clear. As such, there are no marked crosswalks, either.

The main reason is just mental. When I take the lane and cars are behind me, I feel pressured to go fast. But you're absolutely right. I should overcome that pressure and keep the speed under control so I can safely signal before I turn.

I quoted Maelochs specifically, but many others have given useful pieces of adivce as well. Again, thank you all.

MarcusT

Everyone making a mountain over a molehill question.
https://www.amazon.com/Signals-Wirel...s%2C225&sr=8-5
Voila (sorry, no accent)

daihard 

I've heard people talk about helmets and tail lights that have integrated turn signals. I'm game for whatever works. The question is, does this one help? The common argument against such items is that the left and right turn indicators are so close to each other, they're not as efficient as hand-signalling.

indyfabz

If the descent is on a wide enough street/rod, you could always stop, look back, and wait until the coast is clear. I sometimes do that while doing loaded touring because I tend to not like to take one had off the bars of a loaded bike while descending.

spclark 

My practice also.

Or pulling to the right shoulder to dismount then wait for traffic to clear before proceeding across onto my next route segment.

tFUnK

Sounds tricky indeed. How steep of a descent are we talking about? -5%, -10%, etc.? And how many traffic lanes do you need to cross (going the direction as well as the incoming direction) in order to make the turn?

In the past when I've had to do this, I do a look-back to make sure it's clear and just go - no hand signals. If there are cars, I don't go. I basically stop, pull over, and cross the street like a pedestrian if I have to. For reference this is on a -7% section of the road, 2 lanes each direction, speed limit of 45mph (which means people easily hit 60mph going downhill).