There's still something about 23c tires
06-11-21, 07:29 AM
#51
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I'm about to dip back into the realm of 23 mm tires for a cluster of odd reasons. One set came with a Clunker Challenge bike, and for budgetary reasons I will run them. Another set is going on my 14-year-old son's bike, because anything larger would reduce his standover clearance to nil.
I used to ride this size tire all the time, back when I first got back into cycling in the very late '90s. I wound up moving over to 28 mm tires over the years, though - they work better on mixed-surface rides and rough roads. Canklecat's story above? I've lived that, when a 23 mm Michelin went into a groove caused by someone being careless with farm or mowing equipment on the road and leaving some striations in the surface. A larger tire would have laughed that off.
I used to ride this size tire all the time, back when I first got back into cycling in the very late '90s. I wound up moving over to 28 mm tires over the years, though - they work better on mixed-surface rides and rough roads. Canklecat's story above? I've lived that, when a 23 mm Michelin went into a groove caused by someone being careless with farm or mowing equipment on the road and leaving some striations in the surface. A larger tire would have laughed that off.
06-11-21, 07:50 AM
#52
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Yup, with the 700x23 Soma Supple Vitesse I need to remind myself that the tires only *feel* like I'm on wider, softer tires. But those skinny shoes are still vulnerable to being knocked outta whack by minor road hazards that actual wider tires would roll over without drama.
On a group ride a couple of years ago I saw a horrific crash immediately in front of me that reminded me to pay attention to the road at all times when on my road bikes with skinny tires. (Good practice anytime, but especially with skinny tires.)
The fellow was riding the tops, not the hoods or drops, coasting down a descent at around 20 mph. On good pavement it wouldn't have gotten my attention, but this was striated concrete slabs, with slightly uneven seams between the slabs, and no asphalt topping to smooth out the striations and seams. I noticed him riding alongside a seam that was flat ... but still bad practice in case the next slab and seam was uneven. Sure enough, that's what happened. He nicked the uneven seam edge and, being relaxed with hands on the tops rather than hoods or drops, lost his balance and immediately hit the deck, hard on the right side of his helmeted head... then skidded about 10 feet headfirst into a sloped curb. Bad concussion and shock. I heard he was recovering but haven't heard any details.
It was the kind of thing that a typical hybrid with 700x32 or wider tires would have shrugged off. But those skinny tires are very unforgiving of that kind of road flaw.
After that incident I was much more careful about which wheels I followed in group rides. If I don't trust the guy ahead of me because he's not calling out significant hazards, leading us across debris without calling out, and I can't see the road surface, I look for a better wheel to follow or bail out and go my own way.
On a group ride a couple of years ago I saw a horrific crash immediately in front of me that reminded me to pay attention to the road at all times when on my road bikes with skinny tires. (Good practice anytime, but especially with skinny tires.)
The fellow was riding the tops, not the hoods or drops, coasting down a descent at around 20 mph. On good pavement it wouldn't have gotten my attention, but this was striated concrete slabs, with slightly uneven seams between the slabs, and no asphalt topping to smooth out the striations and seams. I noticed him riding alongside a seam that was flat ... but still bad practice in case the next slab and seam was uneven. Sure enough, that's what happened. He nicked the uneven seam edge and, being relaxed with hands on the tops rather than hoods or drops, lost his balance and immediately hit the deck, hard on the right side of his helmeted head... then skidded about 10 feet headfirst into a sloped curb. Bad concussion and shock. I heard he was recovering but haven't heard any details.
It was the kind of thing that a typical hybrid with 700x32 or wider tires would have shrugged off. But those skinny tires are very unforgiving of that kind of road flaw.
After that incident I was much more careful about which wheels I followed in group rides. If I don't trust the guy ahead of me because he's not calling out significant hazards, leading us across debris without calling out, and I can't see the road surface, I look for a better wheel to follow or bail out and go my own way.
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06-11-21, 08:13 AM
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Yea, I like them, more for the looks. They are the Panaracer Pasela which I think were factory tires.
Hey, I see your in Ventura County. I used to live live in Thousands Oak and Newbury Park. Long time ago, moved to Colorado in 77 and then to Delaware in 2016 (retired). Used to ride sometime on the Old Santa Susanna Pass between the SF Valley and Simi. Did Topanga Cyn once, that was way too much traffic and that like 50 years ago. Some good memories of riding in S. Cal.
Art
Here my 84 Panasonic DX-2000 with the Panaracers Pasela
Here's my 87 Panasonic DX-4000 with the Vittoria Saffiro which I cannot find anymore.
06-11-21, 08:25 AM
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^^My family moved to Ventura County in 1960 and I am the only one left, the rest are retired in more affordable areas. I haven't ridden south of Camarillo, except once I rode down to County Line along Highway 1 . I am in Santa Paula so most of my riding is in the east end of the county(rural) which is why I don't ride on 23c tires that often. Those are a couple of nice looking bikes.
Last edited by Kabuki12; 06-11-21 at 08:30 AM.
06-11-21, 08:32 AM
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I know that, like the tidal bore in Truro, NS, I’ll be going against the flow here but I have to say that there is still something really neat about 23c tires. Wider and fatter tires are all the rage and I have a variety of em - 25c, 28c, 31c, 47c - but I have one bike that is 23c all the time and another that is 23c enabled (second set of wheels, plug and play). My ride this morning, in the cool air, reminded me of how nice 23c tars are.
Are they faster - NO. This has already been tested and proven.
Are they quicker turning - NO
Do they spin up faster - If they are lighter by a significant amount...Maybe. But it's negligible.
Is the ride harsher - Most definitely. Also tested and proven.
Are they lighter - Maybe. Depends on manufacturer and model.
Do they wear out faster - NO
Are they aaall day comfortable - yes. But not as comfortable as a wider tire.
Do they look cooler - don’t care. How would I know? They look kinda skinny
Do they make you look sexier - lost cause. Skinny is sexy
Will they turn you into a crocodile - unlikely, eh? Maybe if you use Continental Gatorskins
Are they more fun - yes, sometimes. No
Do you ever just feel like some rascality - Aw, yeah. Never
531, Ultra 6, non-areo, bar-cons, “serving spoon” saddle, Cyclones, cages, Reich bell, 30 quiet miles of no cars and 80% shade. It was a very nice ride on the ole VMC. Väldigt mycket
Just my inexperienced opinion. Very inexperienced indeed.
Are they faster - NO. This has already been tested and proven.
Are they quicker turning - NO
Do they spin up faster - If they are lighter by a significant amount...Maybe. But it's negligible.
Is the ride harsher - Most definitely. Also tested and proven.
Are they lighter - Maybe. Depends on manufacturer and model.
Do they wear out faster - NO
Are they aaall day comfortable - yes. But not as comfortable as a wider tire.
Do they look cooler - don’t care. How would I know? They look kinda skinny
Do they make you look sexier - lost cause. Skinny is sexy
Will they turn you into a crocodile - unlikely, eh? Maybe if you use Continental Gatorskins
Are they more fun - yes, sometimes. No
Do you ever just feel like some rascality - Aw, yeah. Never
531, Ultra 6, non-areo, bar-cons, “serving spoon” saddle, Cyclones, cages, Reich bell, 30 quiet miles of no cars and 80% shade. It was a very nice ride on the ole VMC. Väldigt mycket
Just my inexperienced opinion. Very inexperienced indeed.
700 x 32...Just flip that that number around for a more comfortable ride...
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06-11-21, 08:41 AM
#56
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This from a reliable source "we started by testing 20, 23 and 25 mm tires (same tire model). Imagine our surprise when the 20 mm were slowest, and the 25 mm fastest. This wasn’t what we expected! And yet, when we repeated our tests with a different methodology (power meter vs. roll-down), the results remained the same. There was no doubt that the narrowest tires are slower than slightly wider ones.
Then we tested wider tires, and realized that the performance of tires doesn’t change at all as they get wider. Basically, a 32 mm tire rolls as fast as a 28 mm, which performs the same as a 25 mm tire. Since then, we’ve tried to figure out how wide a tire can be before its performance begins to drop off.
Based on this and other testing, we developed our Rene Herse tires and optimized them for performance and comfort on real roads. And since we now have very similar tires in widths from 26 to 54 mm, we could do controlled testing of all these sizes. We found that they all perform the same. Even on very smooth asphalt, you don’t lose anything by going to wider tires (at least up to 54 mm). And on rough roads, wider tires are definitely faster."
Then we tested wider tires, and realized that the performance of tires doesn’t change at all as they get wider. Basically, a 32 mm tire rolls as fast as a 28 mm, which performs the same as a 25 mm tire. Since then, we’ve tried to figure out how wide a tire can be before its performance begins to drop off.
Based on this and other testing, we developed our Rene Herse tires and optimized them for performance and comfort on real roads. And since we now have very similar tires in widths from 26 to 54 mm, we could do controlled testing of all these sizes. We found that they all perform the same. Even on very smooth asphalt, you don’t lose anything by going to wider tires (at least up to 54 mm). And on rough roads, wider tires are definitely faster."
06-11-21, 08:50 AM
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^^My family moved to Ventura County in 1960 and I am the only one left, the rest are retired in more affordable areas. I haven't ridden south of Camarillo, except once I rode down to County Line along Highway 1 . I am in Santa Paula so most of my riding is in the east end of the county(rural) which is why I don't ride on 23c tires that often. Those are a couple of nice looking bikes.
Yea, I still have a father-in-law in Thousands Oak, near CLU that my wife and I visit yearly. We take that back road to Camarillo, I think that is Santa Rosa Valley though. Very nice country back there. I wish I could afford to live there, haha.
Thanks, the bikes are old but in very nice condition.
06-11-21, 08:53 AM
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This from a reliable source "we started by testing 20, 23 and 25 mm tires (same tire model). Imagine our surprise when the 20 mm were slowest, and the 25 mm fastest. This wasn’t what we expected! And yet, when we repeated our tests with a different methodology (power meter vs. roll-down), the results remained the same. There was no doubt that the narrowest tires are slower than slightly wider ones.
Then we tested wider tires, and realized that the performance of tires doesn’t change at all as they get wider. Basically, a 32 mm tire rolls as fast as a 28 mm, which performs the same as a 25 mm tire. Since then, we’ve tried to figure out how wide a tire can be before its performance begins to drop off.
Based on this and other testing, we developed our Rene Herse tires and optimized them for performance and comfort on real roads. And since we now have very similar tires in widths from 26 to 54 mm, we could do controlled testing of all these sizes. We found that they all perform the same. Even on very smooth asphalt, you don’t lose anything by going to wider tires (at least up to 54 mm). And on rough roads, wider tires are definitely faster."
Then we tested wider tires, and realized that the performance of tires doesn’t change at all as they get wider. Basically, a 32 mm tire rolls as fast as a 28 mm, which performs the same as a 25 mm tire. Since then, we’ve tried to figure out how wide a tire can be before its performance begins to drop off.
Based on this and other testing, we developed our Rene Herse tires and optimized them for performance and comfort on real roads. And since we now have very similar tires in widths from 26 to 54 mm, we could do controlled testing of all these sizes. We found that they all perform the same. Even on very smooth asphalt, you don’t lose anything by going to wider tires (at least up to 54 mm). And on rough roads, wider tires are definitely faster."
06-11-21, 09:00 AM
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So does the ride and speed (not really speed, but the feeling of speed) have more to do with tire pressure. More like rolling resistance?
06-11-21, 09:18 AM
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Most things you need to know are usually just a google search away.
https://road.cc/content/feature/tren...r-tyres-182519
https://www.cyclist.co.uk/in-depth/8...ake-you-faster
I went from 25, to 28 and now 32. I'll never go back to a skinnier tire.
https://road.cc/content/feature/tren...r-tyres-182519
https://www.cyclist.co.uk/in-depth/8...ake-you-faster
I went from 25, to 28 and now 32. I'll never go back to a skinnier tire.
06-11-21, 11:15 AM
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I met her at a NASCAR race in 2004. I was in the military and a bunch of us got to attend to do some kind of event. Let me tell you about Pamela Anderson. She was the most beautiful female I ever laid eyes on and she was very nice, not stuck up at all. In person she looked 100x better than on television. She's a tiny little thing.
So, what do you do on a night off?
06-11-21, 01:46 PM
#62
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I ride C&V and really stopped caring about incremental marginal performance gains 
I ride 23, 25 and 28 tires (i might have some 22 tubulars now that I think about it). I like them all. Plus, they look good (part of the reason I ride C&V).
I have read a few of the linked articles out of curisoity. Most of my frames wouldn't fit wide tires any way. The articles generally have caveats and sometimes odd compares. The two aboved link articles seem to suggest that 25 or 28 is the optimal size for road riding and performance degrades at 30 and above. Some of the articles just feel like they are trying to sell me something.
Regardless, some of us like skinny tires and some like fat. Some like friction and some like STI. It's all good to me and I don't need to change anyone's mind.
I ride 23, 25 and 28 tires (i might have some 22 tubulars now that I think about it). I like them all. Plus, they look good (part of the reason I ride C&V).
I have read a few of the linked articles out of curisoity. Most of my frames wouldn't fit wide tires any way. The articles generally have caveats and sometimes odd compares. The two aboved link articles seem to suggest that 25 or 28 is the optimal size for road riding and performance degrades at 30 and above. Some of the articles just feel like they are trying to sell me something.
Regardless, some of us like skinny tires and some like fat. Some like friction and some like STI. It's all good to me and I don't need to change anyone's mind.
06-11-21, 02:40 PM
#63
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I like 23s and 25s, have a pair of 28s...and am going to try some 32s soon when I get my MBK project going...the only gripe I have about any of them is the 23s on my Dale...might have to soften the ride a bit if I can fit slightly bigger on there.
i guess I just have gotten accustomed to the feel of Zaffiros and Rubinos in all sizes.
i am curious about the Gatorskins Bumblebeena is sporting...
i guess I just have gotten accustomed to the feel of Zaffiros and Rubinos in all sizes.
i am curious about the Gatorskins Bumblebeena is sporting...
I ride C&V and really stopped caring about incremental marginal performance gains
I ride 23, 25 and 28 tires (i might have some 22 tubulars now that I think about it). I like them all. Plus, they look good (part of the reason I ride C&V).
I have read a few of the linked articles out of curisoity. Most of my frames wouldn't fit wide tires any way. The articles generally have caveats and sometimes odd compares. The two aboved link articles seem to suggest that 25 or 28 is the optimal size for road riding and performance degrades at 30 and above. Some of the articles just feel like they are trying to sell me something.
Regardless, some of us like skinny tires and some like fat. Some like friction and some like STI. It's all good to me and I don't need to change anyone's mind.
I ride 23, 25 and 28 tires (i might have some 22 tubulars now that I think about it). I like them all. Plus, they look good (part of the reason I ride C&V).
I have read a few of the linked articles out of curisoity. Most of my frames wouldn't fit wide tires any way. The articles generally have caveats and sometimes odd compares. The two aboved link articles seem to suggest that 25 or 28 is the optimal size for road riding and performance degrades at 30 and above. Some of the articles just feel like they are trying to sell me something.
Regardless, some of us like skinny tires and some like fat. Some like friction and some like STI. It's all good to me and I don't need to change anyone's mind.
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1987 Crest Cannondale, 1987 Basso Gap, 1992 Rossin Performance EL, 1990ish Van Tuyl, 1985 Trek 670, 1982 AD SLE, 2003 Pinarello Surprise, 1990ish MBK Atlantique, 1987 Peugeot Competition, 1987 Nishiki Tri-A, 1981 Faggin, 1996 Cannondale M500, 1984 Mercian, 1982 AD SuperLeicht, 1985 Massi (model unknown), 1988 Daccordi Griffe , 1989 Fauxsin MTB, 1981 Ciocc Mockba, 1992 Bianchi Giro, 1977 Colnago Super
06-11-21, 02:59 PM
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I've been commuting lately on 700 x 32s and it is embarrassing. I've been recognized a couple times: stopped and chatted. Lucky for me they were MTB'ers who dabble in road riding and they didn't tease me. For next year, I'm putting the North Roads, and flat pedals back on that bike for getting groceries and riding to the beach. 23+ is the gateway to electric assist and if you need 28s to be comfortable, try pedaling your bike as it smooths out the bumps. 
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06-11-21, 04:05 PM
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A lot of the opinion on tire choice should be prefaced by "for me" or "in my experience." "Comfort" for one person is not the same for another. "Comfort" is not merely a physical quality. It can also be psychological or emotional ... very much based on experience and a huge list of other factors.
06-11-21, 04:38 PM
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Prowler's observations and opinions are his own, are valid, and are shared by others.
The retort with all of the red "corrections" was anti-social and unnecessary.
Be happy-be friendly-ride what you like. Like 'em fat? Cool. Skinny? Great.
This thread is a skinny tire thread. Why come in here and do that? I don't get it.
The retort with all of the red "corrections" was anti-social and unnecessary.
Be happy-be friendly-ride what you like. Like 'em fat? Cool. Skinny? Great.
This thread is a skinny tire thread. Why come in here and do that? I don't get it.
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06-11-21, 10:11 PM
#68
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I weigh around 150, bikes range from just under 20 lbs to right at 25 lbs.
For 700x23, usually around 90 psi rear, 75 front.
For 700x25, 85 psi rear, 65 front.
That's much lower than some pressure calculators recommend but it works for me at this weight with these tires. Subject to change with conditions. And some folks use even lower pressure.
I've had one pinch flat, ever, riding the Conti GP Classics at that pressure, and it would have flatted almost any tire combo. A couple of years ago I was on a quiet residential street that was clear one moment, and a moment later two construction trucks pulled into my path without warning from either side of the road. There was a full car width down the center so I took that route. Unfortunately there was a broken brick in the center lane that I didn't notice because it was partially obscured by those reflector/divider doodads. My least bad choice was to roll directly over the brick rather than risk falling to either side under the wheels of the construction trucks that were pinching me.
Got the typical snakebite pinch flat. And it didn't even happen immediately. I rode another mile or so before I noticed a slow leak from the pinholes. No tire or rim damage. Swapped tubes and got back on the road within minutes. The tube was repairable.
Another reason I prefer supple tires at lower pressure. They're less likely to deflect us to the side rolling over debris that we can't avoid. I've ridden other tires are higher pressure -- Vittoria Zaffiro, others -- and those overreacted to debris and flaws in the road.
The main advantage is comfort over long miles on coarse chipseal. Our area has given up on decent pavement in most areas. They only put a smooth road bed and blacktop on the McMansion neighborhoods and areas selected for gentrification. The rest of us get the coarsest chipseal I've ever seen. It's basically railroad ballast glued together and sorta mashed flat. But it takes about a year of motor vehicle traffic flattening out the chipseal to make it rideable for bikes with skinny tires.
The only good thing about this chipseal is you can hear cars coming from a long way off. Even those silent electric roller skate cars make some noise from tires rolling on rough chipseal. Fewer surprises when I'm cycling, jogging and walking. Even with earbuds (which I wear only for walking and jogging, never while cycling), I can hear cars approaching from behind due to the tire noise.
For 700x23, usually around 90 psi rear, 75 front.
For 700x25, 85 psi rear, 65 front.
That's much lower than some pressure calculators recommend but it works for me at this weight with these tires. Subject to change with conditions. And some folks use even lower pressure.
I've had one pinch flat, ever, riding the Conti GP Classics at that pressure, and it would have flatted almost any tire combo. A couple of years ago I was on a quiet residential street that was clear one moment, and a moment later two construction trucks pulled into my path without warning from either side of the road. There was a full car width down the center so I took that route. Unfortunately there was a broken brick in the center lane that I didn't notice because it was partially obscured by those reflector/divider doodads. My least bad choice was to roll directly over the brick rather than risk falling to either side under the wheels of the construction trucks that were pinching me.
Got the typical snakebite pinch flat. And it didn't even happen immediately. I rode another mile or so before I noticed a slow leak from the pinholes. No tire or rim damage. Swapped tubes and got back on the road within minutes. The tube was repairable.
Another reason I prefer supple tires at lower pressure. They're less likely to deflect us to the side rolling over debris that we can't avoid. I've ridden other tires are higher pressure -- Vittoria Zaffiro, others -- and those overreacted to debris and flaws in the road.
The main advantage is comfort over long miles on coarse chipseal. Our area has given up on decent pavement in most areas. They only put a smooth road bed and blacktop on the McMansion neighborhoods and areas selected for gentrification. The rest of us get the coarsest chipseal I've ever seen. It's basically railroad ballast glued together and sorta mashed flat. But it takes about a year of motor vehicle traffic flattening out the chipseal to make it rideable for bikes with skinny tires.
The only good thing about this chipseal is you can hear cars coming from a long way off. Even those silent electric roller skate cars make some noise from tires rolling on rough chipseal. Fewer surprises when I'm cycling, jogging and walking. Even with earbuds (which I wear only for walking and jogging, never while cycling), I can hear cars approaching from behind due to the tire noise.
06-14-21, 11:14 AM
#69
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I ran 23's for years, then went to 25's and never looked back. Fewer flats, better mileage.
I run 33's on my gravel bike, which gets a lot of street usage.
I run 33's on my gravel bike, which gets a lot of street usage.
06-14-21, 11:38 AM
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I know that, like the tidal bore in Truro, NS, I’ll be going against the flow here but I have to say that there is still something really neat about 23c tires. Wider and fatter tires are all the rage and I have a variety of em - 25c, 28c, 31c, 47c - but I have one bike that is 23c all the time and another that is 23c enabled (second set of wheels, plug and play). My ride this morning, in the cool air, reminded me of how nice 23c tars are.
Are they faster - seemingly
Are they quicker turning (flickable) - yes
Do they spin up faster - feels like it
Is the ride harsher - not that I can tell
Are they lighter - yes
Do they wear out faster - no idea. Don’t care
Are they aaall day comfortable - yes
Do they look cooler - don’t care. How would I know?
Do they make you look sexier - lost cause
Will they turn you into a crocodile - unlikely, eh?
Are they more fun - yes, sometimes
Do you ever just feel like some rascality - Aw, yeah.
531, Ultra 6, non-areo, bar-cons, “serving spoon” saddle, Cyclones, cages, Reich bell, 30 quiet miles of no cars and 80% shade. It was a very nice ride on the ole VMC. Väldigt mycket
Just my inexperienced opinion.
Cheers
And that's no fish story....
Are they faster - seemingly
Are they quicker turning (flickable) - yes
Do they spin up faster - feels like it
Is the ride harsher - not that I can tell
Are they lighter - yes
Do they wear out faster - no idea. Don’t care
Are they aaall day comfortable - yes
Do they look cooler - don’t care. How would I know?
Do they make you look sexier - lost cause
Will they turn you into a crocodile - unlikely, eh?
Are they more fun - yes, sometimes
Do you ever just feel like some rascality - Aw, yeah.
531, Ultra 6, non-areo, bar-cons, “serving spoon” saddle, Cyclones, cages, Reich bell, 30 quiet miles of no cars and 80% shade. It was a very nice ride on the ole VMC. Väldigt mycket
Just my inexperienced opinion.
Cheers
And that's no fish story....
06-14-21, 12:08 PM
#72
Disciple of St. Tullio
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: State of Jefferson
Posts: 743
Bikes: Ciöcc, Bianchi, DeRosa, Eddy Merckx, Frejus, Hampsten, Kondor, Losa, Magni, Pegoretti, Pelizzoli, Pogliaghi, Scapin
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Eh.....I don't miss 23s at all. But for those of you who enjoy them, more power to you.
Regarding tire pressure, Josh Poertner has done a lot of research on that subject. Some quotes from Tire Pressure - Stop Guessing And Read The Science | TRS Triathlon
Regarding tire pressure, Josh Poertner has done a lot of research on that subject. Some quotes from Tire Pressure - Stop Guessing And Read The Science | TRS Triathlon
“We found that he rode his fastest when we reduced the tire pressures down near 60 psi. Basically the lower we went, the faster he went until he broke his wheels. We also discovered that the pumps on the team truck were off by as much as 12 psi relative to each other, so we had to really get every single detail right in terms of optimizing speed and tire pressures.”
A good paradigm is to think of each pebble and divot in the road like a tiny valley or mountain. The tire has to negotiate each change in elevation. A tire made hard by too much pressure has to go up and over each one like a microscopic Hawi climb. A “squishier” tire simply gives way and rolls straight on as if it wasn’t there. What’s surprising is just how quickly the effect occurs. Like Cancellara over the cobbles, Poertner found that the fastest pressure over the torn-up pavement was about 65 psi, significantly lower than what conventional wisdom would recommend considering that it’s nowhere near as rough as the legendary road to Roubaix. In fact, once he established the trend between grades of pavement, he found that just about every amateur athlete out there is running their tires too high.
“When we plotted it out, we found the line defining the relationship between pressure and impedance is much steeper than rolling resistance, which means you start bleeding off energy due to impedance much more quickly than rolling resistance. It turns out that it’s much better to be 10 or even 20 psi lower than the ideal tire pressure than 10 psi higher.”
A good paradigm is to think of each pebble and divot in the road like a tiny valley or mountain. The tire has to negotiate each change in elevation. A tire made hard by too much pressure has to go up and over each one like a microscopic Hawi climb. A “squishier” tire simply gives way and rolls straight on as if it wasn’t there. What’s surprising is just how quickly the effect occurs. Like Cancellara over the cobbles, Poertner found that the fastest pressure over the torn-up pavement was about 65 psi, significantly lower than what conventional wisdom would recommend considering that it’s nowhere near as rough as the legendary road to Roubaix. In fact, once he established the trend between grades of pavement, he found that just about every amateur athlete out there is running their tires too high.
“When we plotted it out, we found the line defining the relationship between pressure and impedance is much steeper than rolling resistance, which means you start bleeding off energy due to impedance much more quickly than rolling resistance. It turns out that it’s much better to be 10 or even 20 psi lower than the ideal tire pressure than 10 psi higher.”
06-14-21, 12:50 PM
#74
Junior Member
Join Date: Oct 2016
Location: Kansas City, MO
Posts: 14
Bikes: Mid-80s Vitus 979; '85 Schwinn High Sierra
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23s? My dos centavos
[QUOTE=Prowler;22095231]I know that, like the tidal bore in Truro, NS, I’ll be going against the flow here but I have to say that there is still something really neat about 23c tires. Wider and fatter tires are all the rage and I have a variety of em - 25c, 28c, 31c, 47c - but I have one bike that is 23c all the time and another that is 23c enabled (second set of wheels, plug and play). My ride this morning, in the cool air, reminded me of how nice 23c tars are.
Are they faster - seemingly
Are they quicker turning (flickable) - yes
Do they spin up faster - feels like it
Is the ride harsher - not that I can tell
Are they lighter - yes
Do they wear out faster - no idea. Don’t care
Are they aaall day comfortable - yes
Do they look cooler - don’t care. How would I know?
Do they make you look sexier - lost cause
Will they turn you into a crocodile - unlikely, eh?
Are they more fun - yes, sometimes
Do you ever just feel like some rascality - Aw, yeah.
531, Ultra 6, non-areo, bar-cons, “serving spoon” saddle, Cyclones, cages, Reich bell, 30 quiet miles of no cars and 80% shade. It was a very nice ride on the ole VMC. Väldigt mycket
Just my inexperienced opinion.
Cheers
I do like old-school road bikes - I have an '86 Vitus 979. When I got the bike, it had 23s and I didn't care for the "twitchy," nervous feel, especially in the steering. So I got a pair of 28mm Panaracers and it was quite a revelation. Much better ride; everything, including steering, was smoother. I wore those out and bought a pair of Clement Strad LGGs (28s) that I like even better. I think the "faster" feel of skinnier tires has more to do with "deflection" than real speed. My speed over familiar routes has increased a bit since changing tires, but I think it's more about me being faster over time. Anyway, ride what you like - if you're happy, that's the main thing. Nice bikes, by the way!
Are they faster - seemingly
Are they quicker turning (flickable) - yes
Do they spin up faster - feels like it
Is the ride harsher - not that I can tell
Are they lighter - yes
Do they wear out faster - no idea. Don’t care
Are they aaall day comfortable - yes
Do they look cooler - don’t care. How would I know?
Do they make you look sexier - lost cause
Will they turn you into a crocodile - unlikely, eh?
Are they more fun - yes, sometimes
Do you ever just feel like some rascality - Aw, yeah.
531, Ultra 6, non-areo, bar-cons, “serving spoon” saddle, Cyclones, cages, Reich bell, 30 quiet miles of no cars and 80% shade. It was a very nice ride on the ole VMC. Väldigt mycket
Just my inexperienced opinion.
Cheers
I do like old-school road bikes - I have an '86 Vitus 979. When I got the bike, it had 23s and I didn't care for the "twitchy," nervous feel, especially in the steering. So I got a pair of 28mm Panaracers and it was quite a revelation. Much better ride; everything, including steering, was smoother. I wore those out and bought a pair of Clement Strad LGGs (28s) that I like even better. I think the "faster" feel of skinnier tires has more to do with "deflection" than real speed. My speed over familiar routes has increased a bit since changing tires, but I think it's more about me being faster over time. Anyway, ride what you like - if you're happy, that's the main thing. Nice bikes, by the way!
06-14-21, 01:09 PM
#75
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Join Date: Nov 2006
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When I bought my "new" (this was in 2007) bike, I had been. It was custom built...I had been riding .23s....my guy at the LBS said I should use .25 intead, and so I have, ever since. I was not able to tell the difference.