pallen

So, I've been Campy-curious for a while. After one of the Shimano shifters on one of my bikes started acting up, I decided it was time to take the plunge. My bike had Dura Ace 7800 with Ultegra Brakes. These parts will now go to the bike with the broken shifter (Ultegra).

I'm not crazy about 11 speed at this point and all the tedium that goes with the chains and such (and the expense), so I decided on Centaur 10 Speed Carbon Red/Black. Very close to the weight of Dura Ace, but for half the price. I used to think Campagnolo was too expensive, but I realized comparing Veloce to Sora and going up the lines is majorly flawed. Veloce is more like Ultegra and it goes up from there.

BTW - With the DT Swiss 240S hubs, the wheel conversion was as simple as popping off the freehub and popping on a new one.

I'll try to keep this brief for internet attention spans.

The good
The first thing I noticed as I was heading out the driveway for a test run was the brakes. The brakes have MUCH more stopping power than any of the 3 Shimano equipped bikes I've been riding, modulation is better too. They take less hand pressure to stop faster.

Shifting has a VERY positive feel. The shifters take a little more pressure to operate, but give you a very satisfying snap followed by an immediate clunk as the chain pops to the new gear. Throw feels about the same as Shimano. Front shifting has a noticeable improvement in the performance of the shift. Campy gives you multiple points in the FD for trimming, which is nice. With Shimano, the clicks are "softer" and smooth and can be operated with a lighter touch. Campy has more pronounced clicks. I also prefer the feel of the shifters. The bodies are a bit beefier and fit my hands better. I actually like the thumb shifter thing. It takes some adjustment, but its very natural for me if you think of shifting as rocking your hands around the shifter body. Rotate your hand clockwise to shift one direction, counterclockwise to shift the other way. One direction hits the paddle, the other direction hits the thumb button.

I'm also very happy about under bar tape cable routing. I know the new Shimano stuff has this, but this is new to me and been standard with Campagnolo for a while. Very clean.

Edit: Another detail I like is the ability to open the calipers to remove a wheel (and close them back when you start down the road and realize you forgot) from the brake lever instead of the mechanism on the caliper.

The Bad
I find that trimming of the FD is a requirement. With Shimano, I could tweak it just right where trimming was not needed.

The Ugly
While I'm very happy with the switch, I was cursing Campagnolo and all things Italian while installing. The fastener that tightens the shifter to the bars requires a star tool - same for the rear derailleur despite the manual saying its a 6mm hex. Then to install the crank, you need a 14mm hex/allen tool. How many of you have one of those in your drawer? Well, neither does Autozone, OReiley's, Home Depot, Lowes or Sears. I finally found one at Harbor Freight in a set. Finally, I get the crank on and realize that I left out the dust cap. No problem, I'll just pop the crank arm off and stick it in there and reassemble. uh, no. You need a gear puller, a special Campy plate to protect your crank from the puller jaws, and a special plug to go in the hole in the crank for the puller to press on for leverage. If I didn't already have a gear puller, ordering all the Park Tools to do it the "right" way would have been well over $100. Insanity.


For you Weight Weenies, here's how it stacks up according to my scale. I didnt weigh the chain because I'm using the same KMC chain.

Campagnolo Centaur - 1701g total
Shifters/Brake lever - 190+188 = 378g
Derailleurs FD/RD - 92/214 = 306g
Brakes FB/RB - 157+153 = 310g
Crank W/O BB 658g
BB 49g

Shimano Dura Ace / Ultegra Brakes - 1767g
Shifters/Brake lever - 211+210 = 421g
Derailleurs FD/RD - 71/183 = 254g
Brakes FB/RB - 169+166 = 335g
Crank W/O BB 659g
BB 98g (Published weight I found online, I didn't weight this one.)

And for the best part...

RollCNY

I am also a new Campy Centaur user, and am with you on the tool hassles (haven't considered pulling the crank yet but expect a nightmare). Over the winter, I bought a Cinelli frame, and built it up with Shimano 105 and Microshift odds and ends. It worked, but I decided to make it my Italian mid-life crisis. Ended up with Veloce shifters, Miche cassette, and everything else Centaur. Works flawlessly, love the front shifting, and have had no trim issues. The hood ergonomics are very comfortable, and I would definitely do it all again.

I tried the Jtek shiftmate at first, using the veloce shifters with 105 cassette and RD, and where the back worked ok, the front was abysmal. So I went all in on Campy and have been very pleased.

Commodus

Mirrors my opinion pretty well, though I didn't have any trim issues. And I like buying tools, so that didn't bug me much!

Elduderino2412

Nice review. I currently have 105, and I'm planning on either switching to SRAM Force or Campy Chorus next year. I really like the SRAM. I haven't ridden Campy yet, really questioning if i will like the thumb shifters.

Carbon Unit

Good review. I am a long time Campy user and have probably put less than a mile on a Shimano group and have never tried SRAM. 11 speed doesn't require a gear puller only their new Power Torque crank does. I will be putting an 11 Speed Chorus on my wife's new frame. I think now that Shimano is going 11 speed, tools will become available.

ColinL

Sorry to hear about your installation difficulty, but I'm glad you are up and running now and that you enjoy it.

For the record, I do have a full assortment of torx and hex tools. 14mm hex is big, but I have one. I also have torx up to somewhere around T55. when you get into really weird crap like security torx and clutch head, then I would have a problem. But I'm also a car and motorcycle mechanic and bigger fasteners are normal.

I would have probably researched all the tools before starting and made sure I had them, or just paid my trusty LBS to install it. I don't have a bearing press and don't intend to buy one since I change headsets rarely, and I don't have any bikes with pressfit BBs... and don't intend to buy one.

pallen

Yeah, when I was preparing the install, I saw that it was a big hex, but I assumed I probably had one. (I do a lot of work on cars too). I never imagined how hard it would be to find that pesky thing. Also the documentation doesn't mention star tools, it says hex. I'm thinking this may be particular to the Red/Black version or something.

rruff

FYI... if anyone likes Campy shifters... C11 will shift a Shimano 9spd drivetrain perfectly. You can get Athena shifters for ~$170 at Ribble, or go for Chorus if you like carbon and the ability to shift up and down multiple gears at a time. You will also want a Campy front derailleur for the best front shifting, but any recent ones work fine.

ColinL

Interesting. Some of my MTBs have torx/star fasteners as well. From memory I think it's mainly the brakes, maybe rotors. I am sure I don't have any torx on my road bike.

ravenmore

I really did like Campy a lot, but I ditched it because it was hard to find parts locally if I needed them in a hurry. This caused me issues multiple times. Also if you race you might have issues with neutral support wheels. I was racing a lot one season when I was running Campy and had a Shimano wheel handed to me once.

garciawork

Love my Chorus on both road bikes. Next up may be Athena EPS... then I'll have shifters/derailleurs for another build... oh the horror!

Carbon Unit

I am keeping my eyes on Athena EPS too. The weight difference between the EPS componets of Record and Athena is 61 grams. You could have Chorus or Record cranks and brakes and everything else Athena EPS and the weight would be around 2200 grams.

Also, a bike company that will go unname for the time being is working on a solution that will put the EPS battery into the stem. I like this better than putting it into the seatpost because holes will not need to be drilled into the frame and a mini USB connector will be available to charge phones or Garmins. The only down side I hear is that battery life isn't as good as DI2 but there are other advantages like multi shift and if you forget to charge your battery, you can still change gears with EPS but not DI2.

Campag4life

Pallen,
A good review from a man that knows cycling. Thanks. I am a long time Campy rider. The issue you speak of with the new Campy 10s cranks is unfortunate. Perhaps there is a cost effective work around but possibly not. I have a 2006 Chorus 10s Ultra Torque crank on my new bike. The crank has been flawless for thousands of miles. Campy changed the design away from the hirth joint however on the modern cranks I believe to a single long spindle with separate left arm not unlike other crank designs out there. Hirth joint UT Campy cranks really require no special tools for installation other than the big allen socket you reference...however do need a bearing puller for bearing replacement as the bearings are pressed onto respective half shafts. Not sure if the most recent Campy cranks have pressed on bearings or if the bearings are placed into the BB...perhaps you can confirm.

A side note is set up is hugely important to proper shifting. I just recabled my new bike and used Jagwire teflon Ripcord Campy cables and the shifting is unbelievable now. Word up to Campy lovers that ride an XL frame size. Campy rear derailleur cables are available in the kit with 2000mm length. This is too short for my bikes. By contrast Jagwire's premium Ripcord rear derailleur cable is sold in a 2300mm length. Perfect. Now I can install a generous housing loop in back. I also believe the teflon Jagwire cables have lower friction compared to Campy stainless cables. Campy housings are fine however and use them interchangably with Shimano SP-41 housing which I would say is comparable to Campy cable housing. Since recabling my bike, it is In fact the best shifting bike I have ever owned...and many struggle with shifting on the internally routing of Specialized bikes independent of groupset. All in the set up to reduce cable drag. My bike slams down the cassette in back now and noticably lighter effort to climb the cassette.
PS: I only have to trim the FD on the two biggest cogs in back and really don't have unless being fussy. Pallen if you play around with your FD stops and cable adjustment, you can tune out a lot of the need for trimming...a bit of patience on the stand.

pallen

I dont think so. One bearing is loose and on the chainring side before installation. The other is inside the bearing cup and doesnt appear to be pressed in. I'm using the screw-in Italian thread style, not BB30 BTW. It may be different on BB30.

Same here, its only on the last one or two cogs. It will go into gear, but you can hear the chain rubbing on the derailleur. I think with Shimano, the front derailleur cage is wider to prevent cross-chaining rub, but this puts some slop in the system. I get a little chain-rub, now with Campy, but the trade-off is snappier front shifting.

vinfix

Functionally (how you like to shift), Shimano vs. SRAM vs. Campy is mostly a matter of preference. I've tried all 3 but only recently decided on Campagnolo because I prefer the thumb shifter/ lever function. I'm sure I could get used to any of them, but philosophically I don't like a brake lever being a shifter as well, or doing a double-tap.
Cost & availability are valid arguments against Campy, and the sometimes maddening need for special tools, but you certainly can't say it's junk.

pallen

Yes, definitely a personal preference thing. The differences we're talking about here are subtle, small things.

Availability is certainly a valid argument, but I disagree about cost unless you are looking for a Campagnolo equivalent of Sora. With dealers like Ribble out there, you can get Campy much cheaper than the high end Shimano that it most closely compares to. I think it bears repeating that Centaur is HALF the price of Dura Ace and weighs about the same (slightly less than 7800, slightly more than 7900).

ColinL

have you done that price vs weight comparison for sram as well?

ravenmore

Saw that you added the pics. Other than the shifter position looking a little high on the bars it looks really sharp. Like how the red accents on the components match the bike.

pallen

no, but I expect it would be even better.

mazdaspeed

There is, it's called a gear puller, they can be had for a few bucks all around town.

c_bake

Good review. You have a very nice bike too!

mazdaspeed

The weight is what surprised me, the 2012 veloce group I bought it almost as light as ultegra and it was $400 ish at the time. Thew crank design is a bit of a hassle but it's light for the price.

pallen

I already have a gear puller, but you still need the plate or you'll damage the cranks with the puller's jaws. I still may get a Park Tools puller because it has very thin jaws. The jaws on my automotive puller are very thick and dont fit well between the crank arm and the frame.

pallen

Funny I didnt notice that riding it, but I just went and looked and the right shifter is higher than the left.

mazdaspeed

You're supposed to file / grind (dremel would work) / machine the jaws on the puller so they're thin then wrap electrical tape or something around them so they don't gouge the crank. I believe campy specified that it requires a modified crank puller, lol. Also if you have access to a lathe you can make the little circular plate thing. A machine shop might be willing to make one for a few bucks so you don't have to buy the campy one. I knew about this going into the ordeal but if I didn't I can see why it would be frustrating. At the time I bought the group nobody even made a proper gear puller, I guess park does now?