Cinelli SC Monza
06-10-22, 05:52 AM
#51
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Perhaps, but I doubt the story is true. I did email Cupertino bike shop, which used to be owned by Spence Wolf, and see if they had any information. On their website it says that they have records back to the 50's so maybe there is something there.
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06-10-22, 07:24 AM
#52
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I was not deceitful. If you implied something from what I wrote then that is your fault. Again, if this wasn't in "my size" I wouldn't have bought it. Most likely I will be holding onto it for a while and will get to enjoy it , I mean have you seen how much I am asking for it on Ebay. 
So it goes.
So it goes.the price you paid and what you are asking are not that important.
perhaps In an order of magnitude, possibly.
my hunch you paid too much, if the reported price paid is accurate.
Campagnolo does not accept neglect without penalty, but better than most, the bike is 60+ years old, a decent chance the bearings have never been serviced, or last were a number of decades ago. I have bought bikes in similar state of disuse, about 50/50 for serious parts replacements being required. Hopefully it does not have the odd 74 mm wide bottom bracket and the spindle requires replacement. Cinelli and Masi employed those for a bit about then.
Riding it without a complete service risks damage.
until then it is wall art.
The eBay listing will no doubt delineate that the days of the freely spending buyer are gone for now.
06-10-22, 07:40 AM
#53
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It is time now to turn back to talking ONLY about the bike in question and not the OP's intent.
Thank you.
Thank you.
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06-10-22, 08:03 AM
#54
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(Edit: On second thought, we should just keep this one. I will add it's contents to the history of the bike)
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Last edited by purebikes; 06-10-22 at 08:14 AM.
06-10-22, 08:12 AM
#55
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Back to the matter at hand, and just to re-cap all the back and forth above: I am seeking knowledge on this bike for my benefit and everyone else's, I bought it for 2k, I am trying to sell it for substantially more than that on Ebay. Any help is appreciated. 
So it has been brought to my attention that this might be a "fake" Monza. Apparently there were some fakes made in a French shop in the 70's with original decals. The story goes that they took some Cinell SC's, repainted them and badged them as Monza's. They even went as far as to paint the chromed head lugs. They were red like this one with the white headtube, which Cinelli apparently never did.
This brings up so many questions in my mind. This would only make sense if Monza's were more popular that the standard SC's. But, if that were the case, then why did they lose popularity to the point where no one remembers them or why they were made? I would think that if they were popular in the 70's then there would at least be more info on them today. Also, why would you paint a chromed head lug when you were already going to paint the head tube a different color. This doesn't save any masking time or expedite the paint.
(Edit) Also this was somehow associated with the Spence Wolf at Cupertino Bike Shop having sold some original Monza decals to a guy in France. So if he had original Monza decals and was a seller/importer of Cinelli, couldn't just have been that he had the Monza badges made for him? I mean if the story were true... But why would a French guy want the decals in the late 70's to make fakes?
Anyway, just another mystery to add to the pile, which is why I like finding and working on classic bikes.
So it has been brought to my attention that this might be a "fake" Monza. Apparently there were some fakes made in a French shop in the 70's with original decals. The story goes that they took some Cinell SC's, repainted them and badged them as Monza's. They even went as far as to paint the chromed head lugs. They were red like this one with the white headtube, which Cinelli apparently never did.
This brings up so many questions in my mind. This would only make sense if Monza's were more popular that the standard SC's. But, if that were the case, then why did they lose popularity to the point where no one remembers them or why they were made? I would think that if they were popular in the 70's then there would at least be more info on them today. Also, why would you paint a chromed head lug when you were already going to paint the head tube a different color. This doesn't save any masking time or expedite the paint.
(Edit) Also this was somehow associated with the Spence Wolf at Cupertino Bike Shop having sold some original Monza decals to a guy in France. So if he had original Monza decals and was a seller/importer of Cinelli, couldn't just have been that he had the Monza badges made for him? I mean if the story were true... But why would a French guy want the decals in the late 70's to make fakes?
Anyway, just another mystery to add to the pile, which is why I like finding and working on classic bikes.
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06-10-22, 08:23 AM
#56
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The only "juicy gossip" surrounding Cinelli that I know of is the counterfeit bikes made from Windsor , but that is a whole other story! Until seeing your great bike I had never even heard of this particular model. Joe
06-10-22, 09:49 AM
#57
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Measure the bottom bracket width.
if 74 mm that would go a long way to dispel rumors of a counterfeit.
if 74 mm that would go a long way to dispel rumors of a counterfeit.
06-10-22, 12:06 PM
#58
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I will measure it later today but the story is that they were counterfeit Monza’s not counterfeit Cinelli’s, which is why it doesn’t make sense to me
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06-10-22, 12:11 PM
#59
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Wait, the 74mm shell versions are fine, which it looks like the "bike in question" has. Besides the oh so exotic 10 extra non matching cluttering 0.0137" thick letter decals a Z, an A, a M, an O, and an N, the mighty red machine is a completely normal, mundane even, SC. IMHO the elimination of the chrome head lugs (for whatever fashion reason) is a minus Not a plus (what were they thinking, less bling = mo betta?). Having a chrome seat lug w/o chrome head lugs is a fashion whoopsy IMHO. So shoot me. What's impressive to me, is that it's all there and did NOT get the Universal 61 cancer. It's a tight window, pre 61's yet post lug change from the previous type. About a year. The headset is extra cool, been looking for one for ever.
I grew up near Cupertino Bike shop. I bought my first helmet at age 15 from Spence, a dorky orange and black Kucharic, and got hit by a van on the way to buy it!
Survived, obviously. But throughout this era, I never saw one Monza labeled SC that came through Spence. I don't think any did.
What we know is that there are examples of both late 50's versions and early 60's. We know that the frames are SCs Not Bs or embodying ANY other exotic frame feature whatsof#$kingever.
Therefore (says the mansplaining man to men) it's purely a marketing gimmick, or some superficial "exclusivity" done to keep a dealer or importer happy that his painted and chromed steel item is.......exclusive.
Go ahead, sell me that headset.
I grew up near Cupertino Bike shop. I bought my first helmet at age 15 from Spence, a dorky orange and black Kucharic, and got hit by a van on the way to buy it!
Survived, obviously. But throughout this era, I never saw one Monza labeled SC that came through Spence. I don't think any did.
What we know is that there are examples of both late 50's versions and early 60's. We know that the frames are SCs Not Bs or embodying ANY other exotic frame feature whatsof#$kingever.
Therefore (says the mansplaining man to men) it's purely a marketing gimmick, or some superficial "exclusivity" done to keep a dealer or importer happy that his painted and chromed steel item is.......exclusive.
Go ahead, sell me that headset.
And I dabble in bike sales but I’m not an animal. The headset stays with the bike. 😎
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06-10-22, 12:59 PM
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I beg to differ. This forum creates online and in real life relationships. I get choose my friends and knowing intent matters. I have no obligation to share anything with anyone, especially people who aren't my friends. For example, the second half of the reply to me in post 39 was sincere and very much appreciated. The TIA in post 1 was meaningless. I'm afraid to say it matters, especially to humans.
06-10-22, 01:12 PM
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It seems to me, the only question not known about these bikes is whether the decal was factory applied or not. So would it really matter if a bike shop in Monza did it in 1960 or a French shop did it in 1970? My money is on a bunch of knuckleheads in Monza who all bought Cinellis over the course of 3-5 years, decided to do a group buy to be best bike buds forever. Prove me wrong.
06-10-22, 01:24 PM
#62
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I beg to differ. This forum creates online and in real life relationships. I get choose my friends and knowing intent matters. I have no obligation to share anything with anyone, especially people who aren't my friends. For example, the second half of the reply to me in post 39 was sincere and very much appreciated. The TIA in post 1 was meaningless. I'm afraid to say it matters, especially to humans.
06-10-22, 03:38 PM
#63
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None of the Monzas I have seen were from the 70s. All were late 50s, early 60s. Was vintage bikes a thing in the 70s to make counterfeits? Also, I don't know anyone who has seen more than 5 examples of these things. How could anyone possibly tell the difference between "real" and "fake"?
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06-10-22, 04:23 PM
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Reads like an oblique argument to get you to lower your price.
I have shown a bike once that I bought new and picked up from the factory- original paint and graphics the entire time.
one "expert" decades on stated it had to be a repaint as the headtube herald was not centered top to bottom. Sure.
I have shown a bike once that I bought new and picked up from the factory- original paint and graphics the entire time.
one "expert" decades on stated it had to be a repaint as the headtube herald was not centered top to bottom. Sure.
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