Stiff frames
#1
Junior Member
Thread Starter
Stiff frames
I'm a new track cyclist.
I was a 400m hurdles athlete but due to injuries I was forced to quit.
I did a test with a coach and he thought i was able to compete on sprint events. I did 14.0 on my first ever standing 150m start.
I have an aluminium BMC trackmachine 02(I will post the picture as soon as I can post them) but it's not as stiff as I could like.
My budget is 3000 dollar more or less to buy a frame.
I saw that the Cervelo T4 is around 2800 in some stores.
Is it stiff enough for me? because I saw that pros only use it for Omnium.
Any other stiff frame?
Thank you all!
I was a 400m hurdles athlete but due to injuries I was forced to quit.
I did a test with a coach and he thought i was able to compete on sprint events. I did 14.0 on my first ever standing 150m start.
I have an aluminium BMC trackmachine 02(I will post the picture as soon as I can post them) but it's not as stiff as I could like.
My budget is 3000 dollar more or less to buy a frame.
I saw that the Cervelo T4 is around 2800 in some stores.
Is it stiff enough for me? because I saw that pros only use it for Omnium.
Any other stiff frame?
Thank you all!
#3
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Cervelo T4 is not a sprint bike. I don't think I've ever seen a sprinter use one. Mostly Bobby Lea in mass start and Omnium.
I'd pass. For $2,800 you can get a really stiff aluminum bike, wheels, cranks, and other kit.
Edit: Lea not Livingston
I'd pass. For $2,800 you can get a really stiff aluminum bike, wheels, cranks, and other kit.
Edit: Lea not Livingston
Last edited by carleton; 03-26-20 at 05:12 AM.
#4
Senior Member
How tall are you? Bigger frames mean you need to be more picky. Smaller frames are pretty much all stiff enough.
I'd take a look at good quality 2nd hand frames to start with. Inevitably you will want a new frame down the road with different characteristics to suit your size and ride style, so save your big spend for that one.
I'd take a look at good quality 2nd hand frames to start with. Inevitably you will want a new frame down the road with different characteristics to suit your size and ride style, so save your big spend for that one.
#5
Senior Member
I'd agree with most of the above. The T4 is definitely not a sprinters bike. The Fuji does make a lot of sense for budget sprint bike (if the geometry works for you) if you want a carbon bike. Like Carleton says, plenty of good alum choices below that budget as well.
at $2800 you aren't super far off finding a used BT or LOOK... that's kind of the sprinters delight.
at $2800 you aren't super far off finding a used BT or LOOK... that's kind of the sprinters delight.
#6
Junior Member
Thread Starter
How tall are you? Bigger frames mean you need to be more picky. Smaller frames are pretty much all stiff enough.
I'd take a look at good quality 2nd hand frames to start with. Inevitably you will want a new frame down the road with different characteristics to suit your size and ride style, so save your big spend for that one.
I'd take a look at good quality 2nd hand frames to start with. Inevitably you will want a new frame down the road with different characteristics to suit your size and ride style, so save your big spend for that one.
Now I have a aluminium BMC trackmachine 02 and FFWD 9T wheels.
We are very lucky and if someone wants to compete, we have some disc and 5 spoke wheels, so I don't need to buy them. The only bike part I need is a good frame.
I saw that Lasse Norman Hansen made 1'01" in the Kilo and 13,4 in the 250m flying lap with the T4 so I think it is stiff enough for me but I don't know why people only use it on endurance.
Cervelo sais that they improved the stiffness of the Bottom Bracket.
The Fuji is a really nice bike but they'd lost a lot of retailers in Spain and it's almost imposible to buy it. The only size 54 I found was 2100€ and not available.
I found also a BMC TR01 frameset in 3300, maybe it worths.
I tried to buy an Argon 18 electron pro but here in Europe it costs 6600€.
LOOK, Pinarello and Ridley are also too expensive
#8
Senior Member
I'm 1,74m tall
Now I have a aluminium BMC trackmachine 02 and FFWD 9T wheels.
We are very lucky and if someone wants to compete, we have some disc and 5 spoke wheels, so I don't need to buy them. The only bike part I need is a good frame.
I saw that Lasse Norman Hansen made 1'01" in the Kilo and 13,4 in the 250m flying lap with the T4 so I think it is stiff enough for me but I don't know why people only use it on endurance.
Cervelo sais that they improved the stiffness of the Bottom Bracket.
The Fuji is a really nice bike but they'd lost a lot of retailers in Spain and it's almost imposible to buy it. The only size 54 I found was 2100€ and not available.
I found also a BMC TR01 frameset in 3300, maybe it worths.
I tried to buy an Argon 18 electron pro but here in Europe it costs 6600€.
LOOK, Pinarello and Ridley are also too expensive
Now I have a aluminium BMC trackmachine 02 and FFWD 9T wheels.
We are very lucky and if someone wants to compete, we have some disc and 5 spoke wheels, so I don't need to buy them. The only bike part I need is a good frame.
I saw that Lasse Norman Hansen made 1'01" in the Kilo and 13,4 in the 250m flying lap with the T4 so I think it is stiff enough for me but I don't know why people only use it on endurance.
Cervelo sais that they improved the stiffness of the Bottom Bracket.
The Fuji is a really nice bike but they'd lost a lot of retailers in Spain and it's almost imposible to buy it. The only size 54 I found was 2100€ and not available.
I found also a BMC TR01 frameset in 3300, maybe it worths.
I tried to buy an Argon 18 electron pro but here in Europe it costs 6600€.
LOOK, Pinarello and Ridley are also too expensive
#9
Junior Member
Thread Starter
That seems to me like you are looking at new only? If so, divert some attention to the 2nd hand market across Europe. Cervelo is a good frame no doubt, but it just isn't up to the same stiffness standards as many of the other options aimed at sprinters. Just take a look at how long it took Cervelo to come to terms with the stiffness/strength requirements of the GB sprint squad with the T5. Felt and Dolan are very good options that are (or should be) relatively cheap as well as the other options mentioned above. You should definitely be able to find a 2nd hand look that fits in your price range
Last week I tried to contact a guy with a LOOK R96 and it was a chinese falsification with no serial number.
Felt is also very expensive in Spain.
About Dolan, they’re now selling the DF4 but I saw a really nice DF5 prototype with an integrated stem(it was used by a world cup participant). I asked to Dolan and my size is not available until june due to the Covid19, so I will meditate about it.
#10
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Unfortunately here in Spain there is no such second-hand culture. People normally tries to cheat.
Last week I tried to contact a guy with a LOOK R96 and it was a chinese falsification with no serial number.
Felt is also very expensive in Spain.
About Dolan, they’re now selling the DF4 but I saw a really nice DF5 prototype with an integrated stem(it was used by a world cup participant). I asked to Dolan and my size is not available until june due to the Covid19, so I will meditate about it.
Last week I tried to contact a guy with a LOOK R96 and it was a chinese falsification with no serial number.
Felt is also very expensive in Spain.
About Dolan, they’re now selling the DF4 but I saw a really nice DF5 prototype with an integrated stem(it was used by a world cup participant). I asked to Dolan and my size is not available until june due to the Covid19, so I will meditate about it.
If you are talking about this frame, do not buy it. It’s just a chinese open mold track frame. And I actually saw few company saying “they developed” this frame.
i think Dolan DF4 is a good option.
BTW i am 174cm and ride 56cm toptube track frame with 130mm stem + look handlebar.
#11
Senior Member
…………………...
I saw that Lasse Norman Hansen made 1'01" in the Kilo and 13,4 in the 250m flying lap with the T4 so I think it is stiff enough for me but I don't know why people only use it on endurance.
Cervelo sais that they improved the stiffness of the Bottom Bracket.
…………………...
I saw that Lasse Norman Hansen made 1'01" in the Kilo and 13,4 in the 250m flying lap with the T4 so I think it is stiff enough for me but I don't know why people only use it on endurance.
Cervelo sais that they improved the stiffness of the Bottom Bracket.
…………………...
Also many riders here do not like aero seat tubes ( aero posts in general can slip or if broken, can be hard to replace).
#12
Senior Member
Find an old Dolan DF3 if you can. If not, I vouch for the DF4 despite it's fidgety seatpost.
#13
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itturriko, understand that you will probably choose a frame that isn't the best size for you as your first frame. This is a common mistake.
I suggest don't spend a lot of money on your first few frames until you find the perfect geometry for you. The problem with buying an expensive frame is that you feel obligated to use it. Now what if that expensive frame is too small?
You are a new racer. A fancy frame won't be the difference between winning and losing in your races for a very long time. If you will win on a top-tier frame you will win on a steel frame. If you lose on a steel frame, you will lose on a top-tier frame.
Also, it's very difficult to be the guy in the beginner classes with the $10,000 bike. You will attract a lot of unnecessary attention.
I've had many of the top frames and the performance differences were very small between all of them. Proper size and fit were the most important factors in me going faster.
I suggest don't spend a lot of money on your first few frames until you find the perfect geometry for you. The problem with buying an expensive frame is that you feel obligated to use it. Now what if that expensive frame is too small?
You are a new racer. A fancy frame won't be the difference between winning and losing in your races for a very long time. If you will win on a top-tier frame you will win on a steel frame. If you lose on a steel frame, you will lose on a top-tier frame.
Also, it's very difficult to be the guy in the beginner classes with the $10,000 bike. You will attract a lot of unnecessary attention.
I've had many of the top frames and the performance differences were very small between all of them. Proper size and fit were the most important factors in me going faster.
#14
Senior Member
itturriko, understand that you will probably choose a frame that isn't the best size for you as your first frame. This is a common mistake.
I suggest don't spend a lot of money on your first few frames until you find the perfect geometry for you. The problem with buying an expensive frame is that you feel obligated to use it. Now what if that expensive frame is too small?
You are a new racer. A fancy frame won't be the difference between winning and losing in your races for a very long time. If you will win on a top-tier frame you will win on a steel frame. If you lose on a steel frame, you will lose on a top-tier frame.
Also, it's very difficult to be the guy in the beginner classes with the $10,000 bike. You will attract a lot of unnecessary attention.
I've had many of the top frames and the performance differences were very small between all of them. Proper size and fit were the most important factors in me going faster.
I suggest don't spend a lot of money on your first few frames until you find the perfect geometry for you. The problem with buying an expensive frame is that you feel obligated to use it. Now what if that expensive frame is too small?
You are a new racer. A fancy frame won't be the difference between winning and losing in your races for a very long time. If you will win on a top-tier frame you will win on a steel frame. If you lose on a steel frame, you will lose on a top-tier frame.
Also, it's very difficult to be the guy in the beginner classes with the $10,000 bike. You will attract a lot of unnecessary attention.
I've had many of the top frames and the performance differences were very small between all of them. Proper size and fit were the most important factors in me going faster.
If you must buy a frame now, get the Dolan DF4. So stiff, relatively local, cheap. Ticks just about every box.
#15
Junior Member
Thread Starter
itturriko, understand that you will probably choose a frame that isn't the best size for you as your first frame. This is a common mistake.
I suggest don't spend a lot of money on your first few frames until you find the perfect geometry for you. The problem with buying an expensive frame is that you feel obligated to use it. Now what if that expensive frame is too small?
I suggest don't spend a lot of money on your first few frames until you find the perfect geometry for you. The problem with buying an expensive frame is that you feel obligated to use it. Now what if that expensive frame is too small?
I'm 1,74 tall and 85cm inseam length
Last edited by itturriko; 03-27-20 at 07:46 AM.
#16
Newbie
itturriko, Size does not mean much. Just use some bike geometry calculator (also called Stack and Reach Calculator), for instance bikegeo.net . Find the exact stack and reach of your current frame and try to ride it completed with different stems and/or bars set on different positions. Then you should establish your best performance position -- where should position your cleats/feets, ass, shouders and hands while sprint.
Then insert the data of your best fitting and start to compare it with any prefered frame (carbon, alloy etc.) completed with some suitable stem and bar to verify or not whether it has a geometry suitable for you.
Then you could check out many existing reputable EU online shops e.g. Bike24, Bike Components, Bike Discount, Bike Mailorder, Chain Reaction, All 4 Cycling, Cicli Mattio etc., etc. to find your best option at the best price.
Then insert the data of your best fitting and start to compare it with any prefered frame (carbon, alloy etc.) completed with some suitable stem and bar to verify or not whether it has a geometry suitable for you.
Then you could check out many existing reputable EU online shops e.g. Bike24, Bike Components, Bike Discount, Bike Mailorder, Chain Reaction, All 4 Cycling, Cicli Mattio etc., etc. to find your best option at the best price.
#17
Newbie
For example, here is comparison between two top frames of the nominal size M:
Look T20: Stack 520mm; and Reach 427mm (Look T20 Geometry Chart)
Koga Kinsei: Stack 489mm; and Reach 453mm (Koga Kinsei Geometry Chart)
So roughly 3cm difference in any direction could be considerable.
Look T20: Stack 520mm; and Reach 427mm (Look T20 Geometry Chart)
Koga Kinsei: Stack 489mm; and Reach 453mm (Koga Kinsei Geometry Chart)
So roughly 3cm difference in any direction could be considerable.
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It's a journey that every racer has been on. Some luck up and get it right with their first bike. Many do not. Here is a history of my frames and sizes:
"58cm" PlanetX
"57cm" Tiemeyer
"58cm" Dolan DF3
"57cm" Felt TK1
"57cm" Tiemeyer
"56cm" LOOK 496
repeat: "58cm" Tiemeyer
"61cm" custom steel frame (best fit, fastest fit, absolutely best frame for the money)
"60cm" Felt TK-FRD (fancy bike)
Can you imagine how much money I spent on all of those? Too much.
...and I didn't win anything bigger than elite state or regional racing championships. No masters nationals or masters worlds.
#20
Newbie
Primo SC Frameset, Columbus oversize steel, some 1000 Euro basic price, just 100 Euro more for customisation
#21
Junior Member
Thread Starter
That's a nice collection!
I've been calculating the reach and stack and I think I'll try the DF4 definitely.
Anyway, my main objective is to compete at a local level, and if possible, level up.
We have a very nice velodrome here in Donostia and it's never crowded in the morning when I train.
I found the pictures of the new DF5 I'll post them as soon as I reach the minimum 10 posts.
#22
Member
Have you checked out the S1neo FP03 supposedly designed with input from Francois Pervis. French brand, available direct and withinyour price range.
by the way, the new koga is really really long!
by the way, the new koga is really really long!
#23
Junior Member
Thread Starter
I've heard that S1neo were using chinese frames, but I don't know if it's true but they look really nice
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i m curious to how this ride ? Anyone had or rode one of these ?