Tips For Riding Out of the Saddle
#26
Me duelen las nalgas
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: Texas
Posts: 13,512
Bikes: Centurion Ironman, Trek 5900, Univega Via Carisma, Globe Carmel
Mentioned: 199 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4560 Post(s)
Liked 2,804 Times
in
1,801 Posts
It's rather difficult to get out of the saddle if the legs are already burning even for lightweight riders like me. Getting out of the saddle is still better employed (least cost) if the legs are fresh. It can be good to have short recovery intervals in between, spinning sitted at easy gears and getting the legs fresh before getting out of the saddle.
Of course it's different in a race when you are under huge pressure to win.
Of course it's different in a race when you are under huge pressure to win.
#27
NYC
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 3,714
Mentioned: 18 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1169 Post(s)
Liked 107 Times
in
62 Posts
on flat ground, try starting out by taking 4 or 5 gears harder, and a very low cadence... maybe 30-50 rpm. concentrate on your balance and movement on the pedals. weight more or less upright, neither pushing nor pulling on the bars for balance, gently pulling up the bar while pedaling down, smooth flow from left to right.
have someone else observe and perhaps record and analyze your position and movement and try again.
when the motion is smooth and you are satisfied with your balance, try one gear easier and a higher cadence maintaining the same power (or speed if you don't have a power meter). practice for 15 minutes to an hour until you feel confident that you have good form.
now move one gear easier and repeat. repeat. repeat. eventually you will reach a gear where your balance and position are still good... but you get ragged on the pedals. NOW you start working on drills at THAT cadence while standing. drop to a gear lower cadence, then back to the faster cadence gear.
keep repeating until you can comfortably maintain 90+ cadence while standing.
have someone else observe and perhaps record and analyze your position and movement and try again.
when the motion is smooth and you are satisfied with your balance, try one gear easier and a higher cadence maintaining the same power (or speed if you don't have a power meter). practice for 15 minutes to an hour until you feel confident that you have good form.
now move one gear easier and repeat. repeat. repeat. eventually you will reach a gear where your balance and position are still good... but you get ragged on the pedals. NOW you start working on drills at THAT cadence while standing. drop to a gear lower cadence, then back to the faster cadence gear.
keep repeating until you can comfortably maintain 90+ cadence while standing.
#28
just another gosling
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Everett, WA
Posts: 19,577
Bikes: CoMo Speedster 2003, Trek 5200, CAAD 9, Fred 2004
Mentioned: 115 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3911 Post(s)
Liked 1,960 Times
in
1,398 Posts
It's rather difficult to get out of the saddle if the legs are already burning even for lightweight riders like me. Getting out of the saddle is still better employed (least cost) if the legs are fresh. It can be good to have short recovery intervals in between, spinning sitted at easy gears and getting the legs fresh before getting out of the saddle.
Of course it's different in a race when you are under huge pressure to win.
Of course it's different in a race when you are under huge pressure to win.
One gets used to the pain. As the randos say, it's all between your ears.
__________________
Results matter
Results matter
#29
Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2018
Posts: 1,410
Bikes: 2017 Specialized Allez Sprint Comp
Mentioned: 11 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 850 Post(s)
Liked 344 Times
in
247 Posts
on flat ground, try starting out by taking 4 or 5 gears harder, and a very low cadence... maybe 30-50 rpm. concentrate on your balance and movement on the pedals. weight more or less upright, neither pushing nor pulling on the bars for balance, gently pulling up the bar while pedaling down, smooth flow from left to right.
have someone else observe and perhaps record and analyze your position and movement and try again.
when the motion is smooth and you are satisfied with your balance, try one gear easier and a higher cadence maintaining the same power (or speed if you don't have a power meter). practice for 15 minutes to an hour until you feel confident that you have good form.
now move one gear easier and repeat. repeat. repeat. eventually you will reach a gear where your balance and position are still good... but you get ragged on the pedals. NOW you start working on drills at THAT cadence while standing. drop to a gear lower cadence, then back to the faster cadence gear.
keep repeating until you can comfortably maintain 90+ cadence while standing.
have someone else observe and perhaps record and analyze your position and movement and try again.
when the motion is smooth and you are satisfied with your balance, try one gear easier and a higher cadence maintaining the same power (or speed if you don't have a power meter). practice for 15 minutes to an hour until you feel confident that you have good form.
now move one gear easier and repeat. repeat. repeat. eventually you will reach a gear where your balance and position are still good... but you get ragged on the pedals. NOW you start working on drills at THAT cadence while standing. drop to a gear lower cadence, then back to the faster cadence gear.
keep repeating until you can comfortably maintain 90+ cadence while standing.
For me, part of improving my technique was giving up the idea of looking "cool". If your rhythm is on point, you legitimately look like you're dancing, which can feel odd. Muscling it might look cooler but it's not doing you any favors.
If you get your rhythm right, you can spin out of the saddle into oblivion. I believe my highest ever is somewhere in the 170s. My cadence meter stops reading after that.
#30
just another gosling
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Everett, WA
Posts: 19,577
Bikes: CoMo Speedster 2003, Trek 5200, CAAD 9, Fred 2004
Mentioned: 115 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3911 Post(s)
Liked 1,960 Times
in
1,398 Posts
on flat ground, try starting out by taking 4 or 5 gears harder, and a very low cadence... maybe 30-50 rpm. concentrate on your balance and movement on the pedals. weight more or less upright, neither pushing nor pulling on the bars for balance, gently pulling up the bar while pedaling down, smooth flow from left to right.
have someone else observe and perhaps record and analyze your position and movement and try again.
when the motion is smooth and you are satisfied with your balance, try one gear easier and a higher cadence maintaining the same power (or speed if you don't have a power meter). practice for 15 minutes to an hour until you feel confident that you have good form.
now move one gear easier and repeat. repeat. repeat. eventually you will reach a gear where your balance and position are still good... but you get ragged on the pedals. NOW you start working on drills at THAT cadence while standing. drop to a gear lower cadence, then back to the faster cadence gear.
keep repeating until you can comfortably maintain 90+ cadence while standing.
have someone else observe and perhaps record and analyze your position and movement and try again.
when the motion is smooth and you are satisfied with your balance, try one gear easier and a higher cadence maintaining the same power (or speed if you don't have a power meter). practice for 15 minutes to an hour until you feel confident that you have good form.
now move one gear easier and repeat. repeat. repeat. eventually you will reach a gear where your balance and position are still good... but you get ragged on the pedals. NOW you start working on drills at THAT cadence while standing. drop to a gear lower cadence, then back to the faster cadence gear.
keep repeating until you can comfortably maintain 90+ cadence while standing.
I alternated drops and hoods. Didn't seem to be much difference between them at low power, though I was a little faster in the drops at the same power.
My question is, will doing a considerable portion of my training OOS help my seated performance or damage it? Running is really good for one's aerobic ability and leg strength, but the more time one spends running instead of cycling, the less well one cycles, that is if one is already a well-trained cyclist. I wonder if the same principle of specificity applies to standing vs. seated.
__________________
Results matter
Results matter
#31
Senior Member
. “ Which ever comes first, like when my hands is starting to get numb, I return to the seat and hands on the hoods.”
Numbness is my biggest obstacle to standing. I can go for a couple of miles standing but invariably numbness makes me need to sit.
Numbness is my biggest obstacle to standing. I can go for a couple of miles standing but invariably numbness makes me need to sit.
#32
just another gosling
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Everett, WA
Posts: 19,577
Bikes: CoMo Speedster 2003, Trek 5200, CAAD 9, Fred 2004
Mentioned: 115 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3911 Post(s)
Liked 1,960 Times
in
1,398 Posts
We're different in some ways. When sitted, I try not to push, spin easy gears 80 to 90 rpm cadence, hands in the hoods. Slower but to keep my legs fresh.. Then I stand in the drops to pick up speed. I do 3 minutes OOS and 1 minute sitted on average. Depends on the quality of the road. In a smooth road, I can do over 10 minutes OOS. In the bumpiest roads, I'll be seated the vast majority of the time.
Long period OOS is useful in long steep climbs because it's difficult to shift gear to alternate between sitted and standing, also losing momentum whenever you attempt to shift (because of soft pedaling).
Lungs is also the limiting factor for me, followed by numb hands in OOS. Which ever comes first, like when my hands is starting to get numb, I return to the seat and hands on the hoods, if my lungs are still fresh, I'll be back standing as soon as my hands feel good again.
Long period OOS is useful in long steep climbs because it's difficult to shift gear to alternate between sitted and standing, also losing momentum whenever you attempt to shift (because of soft pedaling).
Lungs is also the limiting factor for me, followed by numb hands in OOS. Which ever comes first, like when my hands is starting to get numb, I return to the seat and hands on the hoods, if my lungs are still fresh, I'll be back standing as soon as my hands feel good again.
If your hands are numb, move your weight back until, like the photographer said, your only pressure on the bars is a slight up pressure on the downstroke bar. The bars bear no weight and there's no reason to have a death grip on them if you're riding smoothly.
__________________
Results matter
Results matter
#33
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2015
Location: reno, nv
Posts: 2,316
Bikes: yes, i have one
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1149 Post(s)
Liked 1,190 Times
in
692 Posts
You ride out of the saddle for either of two very different purposes: short, intense efforts or longer, steady-state efforts. The mistake many riders make is to unthinkingly and substantially increase their pedaling force whenever they're out of the saddle, even for longer efforts. Riders should be able to ride out of the saddle on longer efforts with about the same or only slightly more pressure on the handlebars (and pedals) as with seated efforts.
when i am standing and move forward i can certainly feel that in my hands and arms, mostly thumbs really, so i don't lean too far forward unless i want to get a bit aggressive (and maybe that is wrong). but when i balance out my load i am quite able to ride standing for long periods of time as i recently learned. just last week i decided to *try* standing up a beloved climb because i have to now cut it short due to the clock change and poor lighting on the return trip. 2.5 miles average 5% grade no problem. i surprised myself because i assumed i could not do it.
#34
just another gosling
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Everett, WA
Posts: 19,577
Bikes: CoMo Speedster 2003, Trek 5200, CAAD 9, Fred 2004
Mentioned: 115 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3911 Post(s)
Liked 1,960 Times
in
1,398 Posts
something does not make sense to me here. when i am standing there is more force applied to my peddles and handle bars because my sit bones are no longer supporting my weight on the saddle. am i missing something?
when i am standing and move forward i can certainly feel that in my hands and arms, mostly thumbs really, so i don't lean too far forward unless i want to get a bit aggressive (and maybe that is wrong). but when i balance out my load i am quite able to ride standing for long periods of time as i recently learned. just last week i decided to *try* standing up a beloved climb because i have to now cut it short due to the clock change and poor lighting on the return trip. 2.5 miles average 5% grade no problem. i surprised myself because i assumed i could not do it.
when i am standing and move forward i can certainly feel that in my hands and arms, mostly thumbs really, so i don't lean too far forward unless i want to get a bit aggressive (and maybe that is wrong). but when i balance out my load i am quite able to ride standing for long periods of time as i recently learned. just last week i decided to *try* standing up a beloved climb because i have to now cut it short due to the clock change and poor lighting on the return trip. 2.5 miles average 5% grade no problem. i surprised myself because i assumed i could not do it.
I think what Trakhak is talking about is the tendency of beginning OOS riders to bounce up and down, thus dropping their whole weight on the pedal, ker-blam. Pedal force is thus higher. To keep the pedal from dropping too fast, they gear up. What one is supposed to do is to keep one's butt in the same place and move the pedals with one's legs, not one's weight. That takes training and practice. I had a gym spin bike instructor who'd make us hover just above the saddle while pedaling hard.
That said, I'm moving my weight back until there is no downforce on the bars. It's all in my legs. I think that's easier overall because fewer muscles are involved, though those leg muscles are maybe more highly stressed. Still, no oxygen required to fuel arm, shoulder, and core muscles to support weight on the bars.
__________________
Results matter
Results matter
#35
just another gosling
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Everett, WA
Posts: 19,577
Bikes: CoMo Speedster 2003, Trek 5200, CAAD 9, Fred 2004
Mentioned: 115 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3911 Post(s)
Liked 1,960 Times
in
1,398 Posts
I always shift half pedal stroke too. I very lightly grip the bars. I think the numbness is related to my aerobic fitness. Before, even my feet would get numb, having used the same footwear ever since. Feet never gets numb anymore. I only started to get numb hands OOS when I began continuously pedaling OOS for around 5 minutes. Before, I got numb hands in the 2 minute mark. Now it's 5 minutes. More if the roads are smooth.
__________________
Results matter
Results matter
Likes For Carbonfiberboy:
#36
Full Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Springdale, Arkansas
Posts: 318
Bikes: 2021 Trek Domane SLR7 Project One 62cm- 2010 Specialized Allez 61cm
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 118 Post(s)
Liked 88 Times
in
44 Posts
I'm enjoying the techniques, advice and commentary in this thread...keep them coming...thanks.
Glenn
Glenn