One more excuse to skip riding when it's cold
#51
Senior Member
I didn't read the article. Seeing the name was enough to discredit it for me. I remember his radio show from way back decades ago. It was more about entertainment and ratings than anything else.
Last edited by Hermes; 12-06-22 at 09:47 AM. Reason: Removed reference to Dr Oz - Political
Likes For staehpj1:
#52
Newbie
What a load of BS. This is extreme stupidity, even for the Internet . Humans have been hunting and foraging in the cold for ever. When fire was mastered, it was just rudimentary heat and you still needed to forage wood in the cold. And they didn't have ebikes or so, if they needed food, they had to "exercise" no matter the temperature.
So you say the Inuit (before our Western life style showed up) should all have been extinguished because that hack says so?
Listen to that online doctor. Because sitting inside on the couch and eating junk food is what makes the current generation so much healthier than previous generations who had to "move outside in all weather".
So you say the Inuit (before our Western life style showed up) should all have been extinguished because that hack says so?
Listen to that online doctor. Because sitting inside on the couch and eating junk food is what makes the current generation so much healthier than previous generations who had to "move outside in all weather".
Last edited by Ridinglurker; 12-06-22 at 07:43 AM.
Likes For Ridinglurker:
#53
Full Member
Join Date: Jul 2015
Location: Chicago
Posts: 309
Bikes: nothing to brag about
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 130 Post(s)
Liked 206 Times
in
116 Posts
Taking the hint from experienced hikers (and from my years living in miserable winters) when I commute in the winter I dress in layers, thin good ones. Uniqlo heattech on the bottom, a thin wool sweater, light down jacket, light nylon jacket on top of that. Other areas: heattech tights under my jeans, winter hiking boots, wool socks. I start the trip warm and as I warm up I drop layers. The object is to stay a bit cool, not sweating even a tiny bit. I'll add a scarf if it's cold enough, ski goggles below 20F. The last couple of years I have learned that a KN95 is great at keeping a lot of my face warm, along with the air I breathe.
I will ride down to 15F, sometimes colder. I don't feel even a tiny bit cold, I don't breathe cold air--It's just like being cozy indoors. I am never to warm or too cold. I'm neither sweaty nor cold when I get to work.
Dress right and you won't notice the cold.
I will ride down to 15F, sometimes colder. I don't feel even a tiny bit cold, I don't breathe cold air--It's just like being cozy indoors. I am never to warm or too cold. I'm neither sweaty nor cold when I get to work.
Dress right and you won't notice the cold.
#55
Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: North Central Wisconsin
Posts: 4,624
Mentioned: 14 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2975 Post(s)
Liked 1,182 Times
in
771 Posts
I used to do short runs on snowshoes in heavy New England snow in my racing days. Cardio pulmonary hard? OMG. Every step I had to kick hard to shed the snow on the shoe. I'd run across short fields and be completely blown on the other side.
Does this study track age as a factor to susceptibility? I was in my mid-twenties then.
Does this study track age as a factor to susceptibility? I was in my mid-twenties then.
#56
Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: North Central Wisconsin
Posts: 4,624
Mentioned: 14 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2975 Post(s)
Liked 1,182 Times
in
771 Posts
You are are right. It was and still is routine. I grew in the U.P. of Michigan...200-300" of snow each winter. The people that died of heart attacks shoveling had other risk factors such as folks that are obese, those that have had previous heart attacks or those who suffer from any type of heart or vascular disease, high blood pressure, diabetes or high cholesterol.
Likes For prj71:
#58
Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2017
Posts: 7,879
Mentioned: 38 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6963 Post(s)
Liked 10,963 Times
in
4,688 Posts
Here's a cold hard truth if you're an American: unless you do something unusual, you'll die in a nursing home where unskilled labor has been changing your diapers and wiping your butt for the last phase of your existence. A cold induced fatal heart attack while cycling sounds like one of the better alternatives to me. Other people may choose to give up the joys of life for one more breath.
Likes For Koyote:
#59
Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2017
Posts: 7,879
Mentioned: 38 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6963 Post(s)
Liked 10,963 Times
in
4,688 Posts
What a load of BS. This is extreme stupidity, even for the Internet . Humans have been hunting and foraging in the cold for ever. When fire was mastered, it was just rudimentary heat and you still needed to forage wood in the cold. And they didn't have ebikes or so, if they needed food, they had to "exercise" no matter the temperature.
So you say the Inuit (before our Western life style showed up) should all have been extinguished because that hack says so?
Listen to that online doctor. Because sitting inside on the couch and eating junk food is what makes the current generation so much healthier than previous generations who had to "move outside in all weather".
So you say the Inuit (before our Western life style showed up) should all have been extinguished because that hack says so?
Listen to that online doctor. Because sitting inside on the couch and eating junk food is what makes the current generation so much healthier than previous generations who had to "move outside in all weather".
#60
Newbie
#61
Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Portland, OR
Posts: 12,905
Bikes: (2) ti TiCycles, 2007 w/ triple and 2011 fixed, 1979 Peter Mooney, ~1983 Trek 420 now fixed and ~1973 Raleigh Carlton Competition gravel grinder
Mentioned: 129 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4806 Post(s)
Liked 3,928 Times
in
2,553 Posts
In my college days, I spent spent a spring break in Minneapolis. That winter had a spell of -20F when my friend had just moved there. Now, first week in March, 20F and sun. I saw people waiting for the bus wearing just denim jackets.
#62
Sock Puppet
Join Date: Oct 2022
Location: Planet Earth
Posts: 1,701
Bikes: 2014 Cannondale Synapse Carbon, 2017 Jamis Renegade Exploit and too many others to mention.
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1031 Post(s)
Liked 863 Times
in
573 Posts
You are are right. It was and still is routine. I grew in the U.P. of Michigan...200-300" of snow each winter. The people that died of heart attacks shoveling had other risk factors such as folks that are obese, those that have had previous heart attacks or those who suffer from any type of heart or vascular disease, high blood pressure, diabetes or high cholesterol.
If you are healthy and know how to pace yourself, it's a non-issue. A lot of it is knowing how to listen to your body.
Likes For Lombard:
#63
Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Baltimore, MD
Posts: 5,373
Mentioned: 15 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2482 Post(s)
Liked 2,955 Times
in
1,678 Posts
Perhaps the fact that no one was dumb enough to do hours of continuous high-effort aerobic exercise in freezing temperatures until the (late) 20th century has something to do with it.
Likes For Trakhak:
#64
Grupetto Bob
Join Date: Sep 2020
Location: Seattle-ish
Posts: 6,218
Bikes: Bikey McBike Face
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2581 Post(s)
Liked 5,639 Times
in
2,921 Posts
What a load of BS. This is extreme stupidity, even for the Internet . Humans have been hunting and foraging in the cold for ever. When fire was mastered, it was just rudimentary heat and you still needed to forage wood in the cold. And they didn't have ebikes or so, if they needed food, they had to "exercise" no matter the temperature.
So you say the Inuit (before our Western life style showed up) should all have been extinguished because that hack says so?
Listen to that online doctor. Because sitting inside on the couch and eating junk food is what makes the current generation so much healthier than previous generations who had to "move outside in all weather".
So you say the Inuit (before our Western life style showed up) should all have been extinguished because that hack says so?
Listen to that online doctor. Because sitting inside on the couch and eating junk food is what makes the current generation so much healthier than previous generations who had to "move outside in all weather".
If you had read the article you would had seen, “If you suffer from heart or lung disease, you should be very careful about exercising in cold weather. Breathing dry cold air constricts arteries and increases clotting to increase heart attack risk, and constricts bronchial tubes to reduce oxygen intake through the lungs. When the tempeature drops, people with known heart disease or lung disease are safer exercising indoors where they can breathe warmer air.”
Healthy people are NOT at risk.
__________________
Road 🚴🏾♂️ & Mountain 🚵🏾♂️
Road 🚴🏾♂️ & Mountain 🚵🏾♂️
Last edited by rsbob; 12-06-22 at 12:25 PM.
Likes For rsbob:
#65
Sock Puppet
Join Date: Oct 2022
Location: Planet Earth
Posts: 1,701
Bikes: 2014 Cannondale Synapse Carbon, 2017 Jamis Renegade Exploit and too many others to mention.
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1031 Post(s)
Liked 863 Times
in
573 Posts
Aerobic is fine. When you go beyond that into the anaerobic range for long periods is where things could get dicey.
#66
Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Baltimore, MD
Posts: 5,373
Mentioned: 15 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2482 Post(s)
Liked 2,955 Times
in
1,678 Posts
Likes For Trakhak:
#67
climber has-been
Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Palo Alto, CA
Posts: 7,111
Bikes: Scott Addict R1, Felt Z1
Mentioned: 10 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3432 Post(s)
Liked 3,566 Times
in
1,792 Posts
...more people die from heart attacks between December 25th and January 1st than at any other time of the year.
heart.org -- Heart attack deaths more likely during winter holiday season than any other time of year
...more people die from heart attacks between December 25th and January 1st than at any other time of the year.
Edit: Grandfather also dropped dead at age 45 (in warm weather). Dad made it to 80, thanks to modern medicine and surgeries, before stroking out. We play the game with the cards were were dealt.
Last edited by terrymorse; 12-10-22 at 12:57 PM.
#68
Tragically Ignorant
Join Date: Jun 2018
Location: New England
Posts: 15,613
Bikes: Serotta Atlanta; 1994 Specialized Allez Pro; Giant OCR A1; SOMA Double Cross Disc; 2022 Allez Elite mit der SRAM
Mentioned: 62 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 8186 Post(s)
Liked 9,098 Times
in
5,054 Posts
You are are right. It was and still is routine. I grew in the U.P. of Michigan...200-300" of snow each winter. The people that died of heart attacks shoveling had other risk factors such as folks that are obese, those that have had previous heart attacks or those who suffer from any type of heart or vascular disease, high blood pressure, diabetes or high cholesterol.
And if you had actually read the article instead of just joining in on the "didn't read past the headline" gang bang here, you would see that the article clearly said this was about cautioning people who have such risk factors."If you suffer from heart or lung disease, you should be very careful about exercising in cold weather. Breathing dry cold air constricts arteries and increases clotting to increase heart attack risk, and constricts bronchial tubes to reduce oxygen intake through the lungs. When the tempeature drops, people with known heart disease or lung disease are safer exercising indoors where they can breathe warmer air."
I got very sick a couple years ago when I got blood clots in my lungs, so I actually appreciate the warnings that aren't aimed at everybody in the world.
Last edited by livedarklions; 12-06-22 at 01:14 PM.
Likes For livedarklions:
#69
Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: North Central Wisconsin
Posts: 4,624
Mentioned: 14 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2975 Post(s)
Liked 1,182 Times
in
771 Posts
And if you had actually read the article instead of just joining in on the "didn't read past the headline" gang bang here, you would see that the article clearly said this was about cautioning people who have such risk factors."If you suffer from heart or lung disease, you should be very careful about exercising in cold weather. Breathing dry cold air constricts arteries and increases clotting to increase heart attack risk, and constricts bronchial tubes to reduce oxygen intake through the lungs. When the tempeature drops, people with known heart disease or lung disease are safer exercising indoors where they can breathe warmer air."
I got very sick a couple years ago when I got blood clots in my lungs, so I actually appreciate the warnings that aren't aimed at everybody in the world.
I got very sick a couple years ago when I got blood clots in my lungs, so I actually appreciate the warnings that aren't aimed at everybody in the world.
#70
Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: North Central Wisconsin
Posts: 4,624
Mentioned: 14 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2975 Post(s)
Liked 1,182 Times
in
771 Posts
Personal anecdote: My great-grandfather dropped dead while chopping wood in cold weather. My great-great-grandfather dropped dead in the snow on a hunting trip. He was found face down, with his finger still on the trigger. They were both several years younger than I am currently. Fingers crossed.
What's your point?
#71
just another gosling
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Everett, WA
Posts: 19,534
Bikes: CoMo Speedster 2003, Trek 5200, CAAD 9, Fred 2004
Mentioned: 115 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3889 Post(s)
Liked 1,938 Times
in
1,383 Posts
I've had nothing much to do this morning except sit on my butt in front of this screen, so I did quite a bit of research on this topic. I'll just say that it's a lot more complicated than one would think - and of course it is! Mammalian physiology is now only starting to be understood. Dr. Mirkin is a popularizer who makes money off his popularization of various aspects of health and exercise. Ignoring the complicated makes everything simpler than thus more salable.
The question one might first think about is the relationship of temperature and blood viscosity. The first question which comes to mind is "temperature of what?" Air or blood, which is it? It's obvious from many studies that viscosity increases with decreasing blood temperature. I think we all know that going hypothermic is not a good idea. Yet when we inhale cold air, the blood in our lungs might become somewhat colder. But does it? Etc.
Mammalian physiology is complicated and the result of long evolution, think 200 million years of it (we are not different from shrews), Of course there's an advantage in blood getting thicker: Thick blood increases the sheer force between the blood and blood vessel walls. This releases nitric oxide which causes the blood vessel walls to become more flexible and thus cold does not particularly slow blood flow or increase clotting.
If course we can also simply dress warmly and keep our body temperature up to where it works best, if there is such a thing, which is still in question.
I had a paper route when I was a kid in Fairbanks and I delivered the papers on foot. It took me about an hour and a half. I delivered papers at -60° F just fine. Mostly I stayed warm enough, but when it got really cold, I'd sometimes have to jog for a bit to get the feeling back in my feet, and did once come down with pneumonia, probably from doing that. So probably not a good idea to ride hard at 50 below or so. Otherwise, it's all fine. We're built to do it. Alaskan sourdoughs would frequently go on many week trips in the backcountry in winter, sometimes just for fun, because it's impossible to travel far in roadless areas of Alaska in summer Winter was the time to travel or find a new place to live or work.
In the PNW, I've ridden in conditions where I had to scrape the ice off my glasses with my fingernails. That, having no brakes, and having only one usable cog on the cassette was a bit of a drag, so I didn't do much of that. Pissing on the cassette only works for a little while. Otherwise, it was fine. Doing 75 miles in a downpour at a steady 36° was pretty much my limit, in fact the experience removed any desire to again ride in the rain at below 40° F. I did a lot of rain riding in 40°-55° F, no damage, though some might say that my mind was damaged.
Anyway, don't be afraid of the cold. OTOH, you really have to acclimate to it. Don't just go out into unaccustomed cold and think you'll love it. It helps to just keep riding through the fall and early winter and get used to the dropping temperatures at the same time you're learn to dress for them. That's of course was my experience delivering papers, and it was my custom to push the lower limits of clothing and stay just barely warm enough. I found that sped up the acclimation and was actually more comfortable in the long run. I also do that on the bike. Overdressing is a big mistake. Do not get sweaty! Especially if it's really cold, don't get sweaty.
From randonneuring, I learned that one cannot get frostbite or even tissue damage from not being able to feel your fingers or toes for long periods, as long as the temperature is above 32° F. Can't happen, don't worry about it. Below 32, yeah, it can happen, be careful of that. I've found that stopping and doing jumping jacks can be a good idea - no wind chill as long as it's not windy.
The question one might first think about is the relationship of temperature and blood viscosity. The first question which comes to mind is "temperature of what?" Air or blood, which is it? It's obvious from many studies that viscosity increases with decreasing blood temperature. I think we all know that going hypothermic is not a good idea. Yet when we inhale cold air, the blood in our lungs might become somewhat colder. But does it? Etc.
Mammalian physiology is complicated and the result of long evolution, think 200 million years of it (we are not different from shrews), Of course there's an advantage in blood getting thicker: Thick blood increases the sheer force between the blood and blood vessel walls. This releases nitric oxide which causes the blood vessel walls to become more flexible and thus cold does not particularly slow blood flow or increase clotting.
If course we can also simply dress warmly and keep our body temperature up to where it works best, if there is such a thing, which is still in question.
I had a paper route when I was a kid in Fairbanks and I delivered the papers on foot. It took me about an hour and a half. I delivered papers at -60° F just fine. Mostly I stayed warm enough, but when it got really cold, I'd sometimes have to jog for a bit to get the feeling back in my feet, and did once come down with pneumonia, probably from doing that. So probably not a good idea to ride hard at 50 below or so. Otherwise, it's all fine. We're built to do it. Alaskan sourdoughs would frequently go on many week trips in the backcountry in winter, sometimes just for fun, because it's impossible to travel far in roadless areas of Alaska in summer Winter was the time to travel or find a new place to live or work.
In the PNW, I've ridden in conditions where I had to scrape the ice off my glasses with my fingernails. That, having no brakes, and having only one usable cog on the cassette was a bit of a drag, so I didn't do much of that. Pissing on the cassette only works for a little while. Otherwise, it was fine. Doing 75 miles in a downpour at a steady 36° was pretty much my limit, in fact the experience removed any desire to again ride in the rain at below 40° F. I did a lot of rain riding in 40°-55° F, no damage, though some might say that my mind was damaged.
Anyway, don't be afraid of the cold. OTOH, you really have to acclimate to it. Don't just go out into unaccustomed cold and think you'll love it. It helps to just keep riding through the fall and early winter and get used to the dropping temperatures at the same time you're learn to dress for them. That's of course was my experience delivering papers, and it was my custom to push the lower limits of clothing and stay just barely warm enough. I found that sped up the acclimation and was actually more comfortable in the long run. I also do that on the bike. Overdressing is a big mistake. Do not get sweaty! Especially if it's really cold, don't get sweaty.
From randonneuring, I learned that one cannot get frostbite or even tissue damage from not being able to feel your fingers or toes for long periods, as long as the temperature is above 32° F. Can't happen, don't worry about it. Below 32, yeah, it can happen, be careful of that. I've found that stopping and doing jumping jacks can be a good idea - no wind chill as long as it's not windy.
__________________
Results matter
Results matter
Likes For Carbonfiberboy:
#72
Newbie
How do you think animals survive in the Wild? Not many bunnies die of a heart attack, they die if they don't run fast enough.
#73
climber has-been
Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Palo Alto, CA
Posts: 7,111
Bikes: Scott Addict R1, Felt Z1
Mentioned: 10 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3432 Post(s)
Liked 3,566 Times
in
1,792 Posts
My point is that we should listen to doctors when they tell us stuff that is backed up by science.
Likes For terrymorse:
#74
Grupetto Bob
Join Date: Sep 2020
Location: Seattle-ish
Posts: 6,218
Bikes: Bikey McBike Face
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2581 Post(s)
Liked 5,639 Times
in
2,921 Posts
Yeah, heart attack cases definitely increase in cold weather.
Personal anecdote: My great-grandfather dropped dead while chopping wood in cold weather. My great-great-grandfather dropped dead in the snow on a hunting trip. He was found face down, with his finger still on the trigger. They were both several years younger than I am currently. Fingers crossed.
Personal anecdote: My great-grandfather dropped dead while chopping wood in cold weather. My great-great-grandfather dropped dead in the snow on a hunting trip. He was found face down, with his finger still on the trigger. They were both several years younger than I am currently. Fingers crossed.
Have a cycling friend whose father died of a massive MI at 45, so my friend, now 70, is still going strong eating right and running and cycling. But it is always a little black cloud in the back of his mind which keeps him on the straight and narrow.
__________________
Road 🚴🏾♂️ & Mountain 🚵🏾♂️
Road 🚴🏾♂️ & Mountain 🚵🏾♂️
Likes For rsbob:
#75
Tragically Ignorant
Join Date: Jun 2018
Location: New England
Posts: 15,613
Bikes: Serotta Atlanta; 1994 Specialized Allez Pro; Giant OCR A1; SOMA Double Cross Disc; 2022 Allez Elite mit der SRAM
Mentioned: 62 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 8186 Post(s)
Liked 9,098 Times
in
5,054 Posts
So basically, you choose to argue with points that absolutely no one is making rather than actually looking to see what's in the article.
This really is a pretty good discussion of how to mitigate the risks of working out in cold weather (and who should avoid it). No one would be critical about a similar article discussing the risks of working out in hot weather and why some people might want to avoid it.
Likes For livedarklions: