Ultron

I'm about to get into track racing and probably looking at specializing in the flying 200 along with the keirin and I'm wondering about gear selection. I've always been a grinder on my road bike and can't seem to keep a decent speed above 24 mph while "spinning". Anything smaller than 90 gear inches or so and I'm bouncing around and I feel like I fatigue faster. I got a vintage steel track bike to start out since I'm broke. It had a 47x15 but I still felt that I easily spun it out past 24mph. I've recently upgraded the drivetrain to a 57x12 giving me 125 gear inches. This gear is 2 gear inches less than a 53x11 which is the usual "hardest" gear. Everyone I'm riding with says it's ridiculous but they are all roadies so my question remains. Is 57x12 too big for all around use at the track? I won't necessarily be focusing on endurance events but I'm sure the beginners course is going to be a mix of the events on the velodrome.

Baby Puke

For all around use? Yes, that is too big. For a flying 200 if you are very strong and very fast? Maybe just right, depending on you. 57x12 is what a few select super-human monsters at the elite end of track sprinting use for a 200.

If you are just beginning you'll want to work on your leg speed. Try giving the smaller gears a go.

Baby Puke

Also, do you own rollers? -An invaluable tool for improving pedaling speed and efficiency.

ruudlaff

You may be in for a bit of a surprise regarding the constant accelerations and what that feels like on a fixed gear that big

I'm the sure the beginners course wont be too taxing realistically from either a speed or endurance point of view. You should expect to be accelerating and decelerating constantly though with the skill work. Personally I would be very surprised if you get to a point where you are hitting your rev limiter.

carleton

Hi. Welcome to the forum and to the sport.

Give this thread a read: https://www.bikeforums.net/track-cyc...ack-racer.html

47x15 is a warmup gear.
57x12 is insane.

You'll probably want something in-between.

Read the thread. Do what other beginners before you did and found that works. You aren't going to out-think physics. Physics don't care what you think

I understand that you are on a budget, but there will be a minimum amount of equipment you'll need in order to train and race. That thread will help you decide how to spend your money most effectively on things that matter most early on.

rustymongrel

I showed up to my first beginners course at the track on 51x15 and while that felt like a comfortable gear to me it wasn't great for the course since we did a lot of drills and weren't going very fast. 48x16 is what we were supposed to be in and once I switched it was a lot easier to feel in control and manage acceleration and decelerations at lower speeds. Now that I've progressed most of my track time training or racing is done at 88-100 gear inches.

I have a friend who specializes in sprint events, has been racing for many years and favors big gears. I don't think even he would use 125 for anything other than a motorpacing session.

topflightpro

Wow. That's huge.

My biggest option is a 52-12. 52 came with the bike. I bought the 12 because it was cheap. I have not found a need for either.

carleton

I want to address this:

1) You will use several gears as you train and race. You won't just put on a chainring/cog and use it for the whole season. You will change gears several times in a training or race session. You will need to own these gears.

2) The Flying 200m is not an event. No one is awarded medals for their flying 200s. It's a time trial used to pick rider for the Match Sprint tournament...which does award medals.

3) The Keirin is an advanced event (even at slower speeds). As a new racer, I'd suggest that you focus on riding and racing a lot to become familiar with yourself, the bike, the track, and other racers and how you all interact. That's enough to keep you busy for a long time After that, then start specializing in events.

topflightpro

I'll add, that I am still changing gears between almost all my training 200s as I am still trying to find the perfect combination for me.

Additionally, with how much my training has changed since I've started focusing on track sprinting this year, my ability to turn different gears at faster cadences seems to vary every time I go out, making it more challenging to figure out the best gearing for the fastest time.

carleton

You'll find that as you improve and become more sensitive (or you monitor your cadences), as your body's ability changes due to rest, energy levels, atmospheric pressure, etc... your gears will change.

This is why you'll see some experienced racers come off the track and swap chainrings between races or training efforts. It could be due to a scheduled change or due to the reasons listed above.

OP, when you read about riders riding a certain gear or chainring/cog combination, they don't ride that all day, every day. When they answer, they are usually answering for a particular race.

It's common for an elite sprinter, for example, to:
- Use one gear for warmups.
- Use another gear for warmup jumps.
- Use another gear for the flying 200m
- Use different gears for each ride (not just round) of the match sprint tournament. This means, if he's racing a guy best 2 of 3 ride, he could have a different gear for each of the 3 rides to advance to the next round in the tournament. This is because at that level, the riders are so evenly matched, gearing plays heavily in their strategy for the ride. If the strategy is to go early, one might choose a big gear. If the strategy is to hold off and jump really late, then a small gear is preferred. Then you have to out-think the other guy who is also making the same decisions.

There's a lot going on with regards to gearing.

Ultron

Thanks for the replies guys!
I don't own rollers I think they'd be a good investment. Couldn't I just get some cogs down to like 16? That'd give me a range to 94", would I really need smaller than that? I feel I can't get up to speed as easy when I dip under 90".

Also do could I do the beginner session in 57x12 or gear down to 57x15?

carleton

Did you read the thread?

DMC707

You could use a modest selection of gears -- 48, 49 and 50

Along with cogs from 13-15

You won't need anything bigger than a 49-14 for your beginning sessions

gl98115

Which velodrome are you going to ride?

Ultron

Yeah I read them but it seems like everyone is talking smaller chainring but couldn't I get bigger cogs to get those lower gear inches since one tooth on cogs drop the gear inches like 5 instead of two with the chainring. Is there anything wrong with going for an 18t cog with the 57t chainring to get like 83"? Cogs are definitely cheaper and personally I think it's easier to change cogs as long as the threads are lubed.

Ultron

StubHub Center Velodrome in Carson, California!

topflightpro

If you superglue your chainring bolts to your spider, it makes swapping chainrings much faster.

andr0id

That's a standard 250m UCI approved track.

Before they let you ride on that expensive wooden track, you have to take a certification course. They are going to inspect your bicycle as part of that course. If you show up with a 57 chain ring, they are going to think you are an idiot. If you can't accelerate and move safely with others in your class, they're going to pull you and make you fix it.

Put the 47x15 back on there and learn to ride on the track first. Then you can impress everyone with huge gears.

Getting Started/Registration | StubHub Center
Certification Classes

Introductory Series *

Price: $260
Time: Saturdays at 10:30am (check calendar for availiblity)
Includes: 4 sessions
Length of each session: 2.5hrs
Description: A four week course geared towards instilling safe riding skills, etiquette and regulations. Graduates of this class will gain certification to participate in open and structured programming at the Velo Sports Center. If you have little or no velodrome experience, this is the class for you! The use of FELT Track Bikes are included in this class if needed.

gl98115

The Stubhub Center certification class also provides a bike with appropriate gearing. Give it a try.

carleton

If your idea was better, people would simply do that

...but it's not.

You seem to be looking for someone to tell you that your plan is reasonable. It is not. The sooner you let go of that plan and get on the one that many new racers have found that works, the faster you will progress.

57/18: 85.5" (just over a warmup gear. Some would consider this a warmup gear.)
57/17: 90.5" (A good race gear)
57/16: 96.2" (Probably too big for a new racer...yes, including you even though you have strong muscley legs. Speed changes in a race are what makes gears "hard". Not simply being able to turn the cranks on a straight road.)
57/15: 102.6" (Very few people are ready for this as anything other than over-gear training. Only top local/regional racers and above race gears this big.)

I know you say that you are on a budget. If you are on a budget, then it's very wise for you to not waste your money and buy things that won't help you. An 18t cog will not help you. Working around the 57t chairing hurts you.

The most efficient and effective gear progression purchase plan is listed in the thread. Whether you choose to use that info is up to you. You are the only one that gains or loses.

Save yourself some frustration. Hopefully, you'll understand that there is a minimum amount of equipment required to have a good training and racing experience. There are no real shortcuts.

Baby Puke

A beginner can generally get away with a 48t ring and 13-16 cogs for the first year. If you find a good used 48t ring, you should be able to get the lot for under $150. Sell the 57 to a hipster who doesn't know any better, or better yet trade the 57 to a master who is all about HUGE GEARS (there are many these days...)

brawlo

I might go against the grain with this.

The gearing is fine for track for say a F200. There's nothing wrong with investing in a selection of cogs. Realistically, it's probably a smarter financial option than a selection of chainrings. The only issue is that with a chainring so big the gaps will be wide. A 52 or 53 may help to bridge the gap in between 57-47.

I rode for many years dabbling in 90" territory when a strong road rider friend came to track and proceeded to race on 53/14. Everyone (most of those I now refer to as old school thinkers) thought he was nuts, but he was winning B grade within a few weeks. He was the catalyst for me to start riding bigger gears. The next season I had no championships aspirations so I though stuff it and rode everything on 53/14 myself. Within a few weeks I was hanging with all the surges of the A grade scratch racing instead of being spun out and left behind. I finished that season riding club nights in 51/13 for everything and was top 3 nearly every race.

These days I am concentrating on sprinting and am working away on bigger gears, because I am just faster on them. I'm no genetically gifted spinner and bigger gears have allowed me to progress from where I had stagnated for a number of years. My PB F200 is on 52/12 and I hope to go even bigger this coming season, but speed is the key there.

On a final note and I guess an aside, I wouldn't pidgeonhole yourself into being a sprinter just yet. My strong friend mentioned earlier has much more fun being a strong enduro style rider than an outright sprinter.

Ultron

Thanks for all the useful information guys! Some really good stuff to think about.
I thought I stumbled on the holy grail being able to get so close to what I sprint with on the road a 53x11 but also being able to gear down.
I'm definitely going to be taking that beginner course but I have to wait for a racing series to be over because they take all the Saturdays in august. I have a few more questions though if you guys will bear with me. The first is how often do people stand while riding on the track? Is it hard or frowned upon? And second, I have two wheel sets one vintage Suntour superbe pro tubulars and the other is just some formula clinchers. Could I ride the clinchers on the track with Gatorskins? Or would they be slippery? I kinda wanted the superbe wheelset as a 'race' wheelset for that mental advantage seeing as they are two pounds lighter but if clinchers can't cut it I'll just roll with the superbe. Again thanks for the replies guys!

topflightpro

Do you mean track stand or get out of the saddle while pedaling?

Hermes

Welcome to track training and racing. I am former instructor / track supervisor and FWIW, locker mate and buddy of the VSC certification instructor. Racing is always a small world and track racing even smaller. At the track, we are about safety and having a great time training and racing.

For the Saturday session, show up with your bike geared with a 47/15 or 84.6 gear inches. Otherwise, rent a bike at the session. Learning to ride the banking can be challenging for some and having too large of a gear just makes the problem worse.

For example, to get on the track at VSC, one has to accelerate rapidly to come up to a designated speed before one is on the 45 degree turns to keep from slipping. One can do this in a big gear but it is harder to do and takes more strength and time. Once you learn to ride the track, you will be able to ride at slower speeds with larger gears.

In general, road tires do not work very well on the Siberian pine surface at VSC. You really want Pista tires. I assume that the vintage wheel set has pista tubular tires properly glued on the rims. If so, they should work.

Racers stand when ever they want to on the track. Typically, standing is for accelerating. The other aspect of standing at the track versus standing on the road is that trackies do not throw the bike from side to side. This is especially true during a standing start when the goal is to get the bike going straight.

At this point, I suggest not over thinking going to the track. I would just show up with your bike and the instructor will either allow you to use it or require you to rent one. Either way, you will have a great time.