PeteHski

Not that I care either way, but I would be very surprised if the UCI banned hookless rims. I think that would be an over-reaction and potentially cause supply issues for teams using them. I think it is more likely that they will simply clarify allowable tyre and rim combinations. It will be interesting to see how this goes.

phrantic09

Given how many manufacturers have moved in the hookless direction, I can’t see how they ban the platform outright. But, who knows.

PeteHski

Yeah, that was my thinking too. I expect they will just put some procedure in place to certify all tyre/rim combinations used. Half the peloton is probably using hookless rims.

eduskator

A third party verifier with standardized tests would be great IMO. It would remove the appearance of a conflict of interest.

PeteHski

ETRTO is the relevant verifier in this case.

Yan 

https://www.cyclingnews.com/news/zip...#disqus_thread

Zipp has released its own statement regarding the incident, mirroring the Vittoria statement that a rock was to blame.

Translation:

"Ok, so try not to hit anything while riding hookless. If the tire comes off, well of course, it's natural. Go to the eye doctor and get some glasses. Steer better next time.

​​​​​​Wasn't impact resistance one of the selling pitches of hookless in the first place? No, that was just a selling pitch. You actually believed it? Next time don't believe advertisements."

bigredgrad01

Thank you for your service in establishing the safety track record for this new technology. 🙏

phrantic09

Thank you for your meaningless contributions to this thread.

terrymorse 

Nah, that was an on-topic snarky clap back on a "my 90 year-old grandmother smokes two packs a day" anecdote.

phrantic09

If you say so.

SoSmellyAir

Yes, an alleged advantage of hookless is that a hookless wheel sidewall would be more impact resistant. But note that there was no promise that either the tire itself, the entire wheel + tire system, or the rider would survive an impact any better.

terrymorse 

Or as well. A hooked but deflated tire has a much better chance or remaining on the rim, long enough usually to come to a safe stop. I've rolled quite a distance on fully deflated tires before safely stopping. Not so sure I could do that on a hookless. Thankfully, I'll never have to put that to the test, because I will never use a hookless setup.

Yan 

Ok, so according to you there is no promise of better result during an impact.

And we also know that a flat tire can come off a hookless rim more easily because it can't hook the bead.

Therefore, put 1+1 together, in conclusion, it's a sh*t system. End of story.

DangerousDanR

Not really convinced that hookless are or are not a good idea for others, but as a person of unusual size the 73 PSI limit just doesn't pass muster. And I did hit a sugar beet last summer and burped my front tire on a hooked rim, but it stayed on the rim and just needed to be inflated and I was back on my way.

SoSmellyAir

The only improvement regarding impact resistance that I have read about pertains to the hookless wheel sidewalls themselves; no other part of the wheel or the tires were mentioned. I do not have any experience riding hookless because I am too heavy (90 kg) to ride 25 mm or even 28 mm tubeless tires at ideal pressures (per Silca's calculator).

Yan 

Anyone who rides regularly and doesn't live in a flat area is doing hundreds if not thousands of descents a year. If a wheel has even a 0.1% greater chance of losing a tire after hitting a rock, I'm never going to touch it, even if it's half the cost.

What I learned from this thread is just how many people around here are tighter than a dolphin's ass, so cheap with money that they're willing to increase the risk to their own safety for the sake of saving a few bucks.

A few leftover driplet pennies trickled down after the manufacturers are done saving themselves money. In many high end wheels, zero savings at all compared to competitor wheels. In some cases, a few bucks. Even in the most generous cases, maybe a couple hundred bucks.

Like in a cartoon where a merchant throws some copper pieces on the ground and all the dirt peasants immediately diving into the ditch, some people here would race to drop their pants and take anything up the behind if only it saved them a dollar.

The rider union is pushing for this investigation. When a group of people are riding at motorcycle speeds on a daily basis, suddenly it's a different perspective from the cheap plebs. See how that works?

PeteHski

I’m sticking with hooked rims to be on the safe side, but there is far too much hyperbole here. Nobody running high-end carbon hookless rims is penny-pinching!

So a rider hits a rock and breaks a rim. There is a big frenzy because of a hookless rim being involved. Much of this frenzy began before the rock strike was even mentioned. It’s right that they are investigating, but it was certainly a knee-jerk reaction. A bit like the disc brakes chopping limbs off scare-mongering.

seypat

There was a 2nd rock on the grassy knoll. I don't think anyone's believing the single rock theory. It's just a conspiracy/cover up by Big Rim/Tire.

Sy Reene

I was reminded of this inflation chart that Mavic had developed -- believed at the time to reflect ETRTO. It is curious to note the max inflation pressures indicated for the wider width wheels combined with the narrower tires on hookless rims ("TSS" columns). Since this came out, the "engineerstalk" mavic domain has been pulled down. But maybe it was originally correct?

DaveSSS 

I'm one of those guys who reaches speeds of over 50 mph on descents, regularly. My regular 18 continuous miles of mountain descent is in a rock strewn canyon.
​​I watch carefully and often stop to sweep or carry rocks off the shoulder of the road. My bikes all have 25mm IW hookless rims and 28/30mm tires running no more than 55psi. I'm not worried about the hookless rims. All of my carbon wheelsets are from BTLOS. They charge the same price for hooked or hookless wheelsets. Take your pick. Mine all cost under $800, delivered. I also select no spoke access holes, so no rim tape required.

https://btlos.com/all-road/ar-clinch...-carbon-wheels

phrantic09

I bought my hookless wheels specifically because I wanted those wheels, not any other reason. If I wanted a set that had hooks, I’d buy them. I’m actually considering some Reserve 52/63s that are semi-hooked as another wheelset. Cheapness has nothing to do with it- but keep making assumptions.

Is your position that that in an impact hard enough to crack the rim, a hooked wheel would have a higher chance of the tire staying on the rim? I just want to make sure I have it straight.

Have you ever inflated a TLR tire on a hookless rim? You know that much like a hooked wheel, the tire bead stays locked with no air pressure on a hookless rim? The only tire I have used that does not also did not stay locked on a hooked rim either (Schwalbe Pro One TLE).

genejockey 

When he hit the rock, did his head snap back, and to the left?

msu2001la

The Zipp 353 NSW has been on the market and in the pro peloton for at least 3 seasons now. Enve has had 25mm ID hookless in the pro peloton for several seasons as well. Why is this being framed as a sudden/new concern that the UCI and/or riders union needs to “urgently” review and take action on? It’s not like this snuck up on them or is a new development.

Are there actually any instances where tires are blowing off without warning when riders are “just riding along”, causing them to crash? DeGent hit a rock so hard that it broke his rim. I’ve never hit something hard enough to break a wheel at high speed, but I have a feeling I’d be crashing even if the tire stayed on.

terrymorse 

Hyperbole aside, the "scare-mongering" and subsequent UCI rule was prompted by some pretty gory injuries in the peloton (no limbs lost but rather ugly cuts down to the bone), and some of the injuries didn't even involve a crash -- they just rubbed against another rider's bike, not that unusual in a race. The sliced up soft tissue injuries were caused by manufacturers leaving a sharp edge on the rotors. Basically, manufacturers were selling a rotating knife with a 90-degree sharp edge.

Manufacturers responded to the UCI rule by doing the absolute minimum: cutting a tiny chamfer on the 90-degree edge to "dull the blade".

Koyote

I know you weren't trying to be funny...But this post is hilarious.