cyclezen

Daily is not necessary unless your dietary levels are inadequate.
But you'll likely have to become a fan... if you want to end the night cramps.
I have heard that pickle juice works for some... I wouldn't mind, except it isn't all that tasty just before bedtime...
so I do the key 3 (and this has works for me for decades...)
I'll do the supplement on days when the ride has been hard, lengthy or producing significant perspiration - usually rides over 2.5 hrs+, long hammerfests, big climbing days
and any activity (hiking, backpacking, XC skiing) when the effort is long or high.
My evening supplement, hour or 2 before bed - works for me 150 lbs, 5'9", relatively low butter-fat ... LOL!

Magnesium is the key - I use 250mg
Potassium Gluconate (not the most active, but also least likely to cause side issues) - 100mg
Calcium in Calcium Lactate - 84mg elemental calcium
Calcium Lactate is also a primary ingredient in the very good supplement called 'Sports Legs'. Used to 'prime' the muscles for hard efforts from the outset of activity - when 'warmup' is limited.
Great as a supplement for Crit racing! Lactate is a primary energy source for muscles, and this supplement helps preload the system which muscles can use before the body's level of lactate can build to needed levels... Great even if you're a 'slow twitch' guy/girl.
As for when to supplement...
If you're paying attention, the night cramps come as a result of a day's effort. When you get close to the effort/environment that you know will give night cramps - do the supplements before bed... Otherwise, a good balanced diet will take care of in-between....
Zinc is also noted for cramps, especially regular period cramps. I don;t do it separate. I get enough zinc in my daily supplement (which also includes the needed B6 for the body's acquisition of the zinc - otherwise won;t be used...)
I will be supplementing Mg, Ca, K tonight...
Every day is a learning experience about myself...
Ride On
Yuri
EDIT: also, if you guess wrong and get cramps (not having taken the supplements) - have them handy and take them (with a sloid glass of water) when the cramps happened.
hopefully the cramps will end, but figure about 15 mins after taking the supplements, they will start taking effect and you'll have a peaceful rest of night...

Aroyobob

Tumeric is an anti-inflammatory.

veganbikes

I was in a Vietnamese restaurant and they had a shot with a homemade pickleback and that stuff was really really really good, told the bartender forget the shots can I just get more of the pickle juice. It was that good I would have drank a liter of that stuff. The whiskey was probably Jack or something not exciting and not worth the time but that pickle juice was seriously good I wish I had it on all my rides it would be such a pick me up (or should I say pickle me up...yuck yuck yuck)

MinnMan

Same. They go away when you reach a better level of fitness. In the spring I can get them after 60 miles. In August, I won't get them even after a hard century.

I don't think that the "electrolyte" "supplement" stuff is a sufficient explanation. If it were a systemic electrolyte depletion, you'd be getting cramps in muscles all around your body. We get them in the muscles that have experienced all that exertion.

It's having the legs motionless that brings these cramps on. Go for a long easy walk after your ride. Don't sit on the couch too long.

rsbob 

I frequently got cramping at night after long rides, especially on hot days. It also happens if I am working hard on the trainer for an hour or two. For me it comes down to keeping properly hydrated. When I force myself to drink - I have a count down drink reminder on my computer it generally works pretty well. Drink before you become thirsty is the general rule. If I slack and don’t drink enough or if I push myself too hard, I may cramp before bed. In that case, I will take a couple of big slugs of dill pickle juice and pop a magnesium tablet and never have an issue.

Pickle juice is so widely used for cramps that Amazon carries tons of the stuff https://www.amazon.com/s?k=pickle+ju..._ts-doa-p_3_11

livedarklions

I don't get why people are so willing to pop supplements when there's no evidence they do anything good, and the chances of side effects and harm from overdosing are so high. And that's assuming its label is actually accurate.

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GhostRider62

Opinion?

Insufficient training for the ride.

I had cramps once. Third day of consecutive double centuries and day 2 had killer hills. I cramped on day 3. Had to be inadequate training. I take lots and lots of supplements, so, that could also be a factor for me never cramping except that one time. YMMV

noimagination

IME, I get cramps when my muscles are tired, for example in the Spring if I've not cycled much during the winter. What I've used successfully is stretching and self massage, like with a massage stick. I do this after I get off the bike, and sometimes again shortly before going to bed. Sometimes I also massage my thighs with that Theraworks product. I'm not sure if it's the stuff in Theraworks, or if it's just the extra massage (and I'd do just as well with oil or anything else), but that also seems to help. (I bought the bottle, I might as well use it up, when it's gone I'll probably switch to oil and only go back to Therawroks if I find that massage with oil isn't as effective.)

Once I get used to cycling more, I need massage less and less to prevent cramps, but I go back to it if I have an unusually long or hard ride.

wolfchild

It's because those people have been brainwashed into believing that it's impossible to live without taking supplements and they are confused as to what the human body really needs. Our whole nutrition and fitness industry is one big mess of confusion and misinformation.

GhostRider62

Exactly.

Carbs kill.

Eat fat.

See the PURE study.

CAT7RDR

Just for the record, has anyone here completed courses in anatomy and physiology?
The info is readily available to find the link between action potentials, magnesium, contraction and muscle spasms.
It is not difficult.

Yes, you can get it through diet alone.
I take Magnesium citrate for middle insomnia as well.
A great benefit is I no longer have to deal with muscle spasms at night after heavy exertion.

I am not saying there is no benefit from stretching and massage. It helps me too.

rumrunn6

wanna feel good after a strong ride? after reading about it I started doing this - warm/hot soak in an epsom bath. 20 minute minimum. longer if you have the time. don't know if I've ever gone an hour, but certainly 30 min maybe even 45. I know I've had to add more hot water. be generous w/ the epsom salt (buy it separately) & add a good foaming bath soap like Dr Teal's Eucalyptus and Spearmint Foaming Bath. 1/2 glass of red wine doesn't hurt either. magnesium is a natural muscle relaxer. hot soaks aren't just for children or old men. athletes do it too. while you are soaking, massage the large muscles of your legs, calves too

livedarklions

You're currently the poster child for a little knowledge is a dangerous thing. Lots of things could be the cause of muscle spasms, but there's no known connection between exercise-related cramping and magnesium deficiency. Those attempts to find a connection have resulted in negative findings.

And yes, I have completed courses in biology and anatomy and physiology. Is that supposed to be some sort of scary credential?

Your intuitive hypothesis has been tested considerably, it doesn't seem to hold any water. There's little or no difference between supplementation and placebo. And magnesium gives some people diarrhea..

Here--knock yourself out: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/32956536/
https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jam...rticle/2603490

Electrolyte-rich foods tend to be otherwise healthy, so no harm in that.

MinnMan

Again, even if dehydration or electrolyte imbalance is a partial cause, that is something that should affect all muscles in the body. You don't have dehydration or electrolyte imbalances localized to particular muscles. The fact that the cramps occur in muscles that have been over-exerted is important. Stretching *those* muscles and keeping them from tightening up during immobilization is going to be key.

livedarklions

There's a certain randomness to when a tired muscle is going to cramp, and I don't think anyone has really discovered the key. I push back on that just a little bit because I was always told growing up that I needed to stretch (which is very uncomfortable to me) or I'd cramp up. I would occasionally get cramps when I routinely stretched and I would occasionally get cramps when I did not, it really made no difference. I've stopped stretching because I find it gives me no benefit generally, and I always found it uncomfortable no matter how much I did.

Whole other thread, but my position on stretching is if it makes you feel better, do it. If it doesn't, don't.

My post-workout routine is a hot shower, seems to loosen up the muscles nicely.

As far as your first point--that a generalized electrolyte deficiency shouldn't cause localized cramping in just one overworked muscle seems so obvious to me, but people who insist it's one electrolyte or the other never seem to try to take that on.

making

I think hydration and stretching. My cramps are a bit different if it is just hot weather or increased mileage and effort, but hydration and stretching seems to help either way.

livedarklions

Nobody really knows what triggers cramps or causes post-workout muscle pain, so seems to help is probably as good as it gets.

Iride01 

Are you at the age where the doctors put you on meds for various old age things? If so, check the side effects of each. Even some meds for depression and some of the oddball drugs for ADHD have cramps as a side effect.

GhostRider62

The cause is generally insufficient fitness. You're writing checks your legs can't cash. (Unless someone is a profuse and salty sweater and doing a very long ride)

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4532703/

https://www.trainingpeaks.com/blog/h...ring-exercise/

burritos

Did stretching last night while watching TV. Dad had eaten all the pickles, so no juice for me. No cramps last night. I haven't been doing extra long bike rides, just bike commuting which can be either 10-20 mi per day. Maybe 20+ mile mountain bike rides once a week. Again, this never happens when biking. Only in the middle of the night, The only time I've been able to trigger it is when I do my nordic curls.

burritos

This doesn't explain why it happens 4-6 hours later after having eaten and while at rest.

burritos

Don't like meds. Don't take them.

GhostRider62

You read articles in 69 seconds.

I bet you could sit on a popsicle and tell me the flavor.

GhostRider62

Try riding only in zone 1 and 2 for 6 weeks.

I bet your leg cramps will get better.

Thrasher36

magnesium