VegasJen

I mean, epically bad luck. Some of you may recall my thread from a couple months ago where I failed to make a single ride in the month of October without incurring a flat. My luck has not improved.

Case in point. Two, actually.

First case. About a week ago I picked up a 2012 Synapse for a price so stupid it would have been irresponsible not to buy it. Yesterday I finally took the time to take the bike out for a proper ride to sort it. For the most part, all went well on a 21 mile ride. Rode really well considering I didn't even bother cleaning and lubing the chain and shift gear. I was pleased with the bike. Got home and parked it in my garage. Went back out a couple hours later looking for something else. Back tire was flat. Picked up a mesquite thorn somewhere on the road. But, hey, at least I got home first.

Second case. I spent a bunch of time yesterday just doing some general maintenance on some of my other bikes. I have a Spec Roubiax which I have set up with two wheel sets. One set for regular riding, the second with a taller cassette for hilly routes. I took known good tubes and tires off a set of junk ALX wheels and put them on the climbing wheels, aired them up to a solid 100psi and mounted the bike on my carrier for a ride in Vegas today. Checked the bike before I left this morning, both tires still solid. Why wouldn't they be? These are known good tires and tubes. Checked them again when I got in Vegas, still good. Did a couple things first and then got to the starting point of my route. Unlocked the bike, put my helmet on, geared up, locked the car, pull the bike off the rack and the front tire is flat as a pancake. It had literally zero miles on it since swapping from the other set of wheels.

I haven't pulled the tube out yet to see what caused it, but just damn. How can my luck really be that bad?

And I know a bunch of you are going to swear by tubeless. I finally got some tubeless wheels for my tri bike but haven't really put any miles on them yet because I've had trouble getting the front one to seal.

I have angered the cycling gods somehow.

mschwett 

They definitely come in clusters…. Until you go tubeless and then they just come very, very rarely.

Troul 

Assuming everything is installed as it should be; When you put sealant in, don't be stingy with it. A little more isn't going to cause everyone's carbon frame to shatter.
Do you know where it's not sealing or is it under investigation still?

VegasJen

I may have it solved. The first couple times I seated that tire, it would go from 95psi to flat overnight. Now, it seems to drop about 10psi overnight. Not happy with that, but I would consider that to be right on the very edge of acceptable. I haven't put any real miles on it yet. We've been having some unusually crappy weather in the last week, but I may give it a try tomorrow (or I might take my one bike that has the armored tires just because I don't feel like walking).

VegasJen

You know, since you brought it up, I do have a question about that. I get a lot of goat heads and mesquite thorns out here. So if I go tubeless on my other bikes, I presume that just means I'll still get punctures but the tires will hold air until I get home. If that's the case, do I need to pull the tires off every week or two and remove the thorns and auto steel belt fragments and reseal the tires? Almost seems like there might be as much or more maintenance involved that way.

alcjphil

You sound as if tubeless should be in your future. Unless you wish to ride "puncture proof" tires that feel like frozen garden hoses

Leisesturm

Just saying, I don't run tubeless and I don't get flats either. Like never. Bontrager Hardcase clinchers on 'Simply Red' means I don't even carry flat repair tools. Some of you will call my tires "garden hose". Fine. Just don't try to prove that your supple, light, fragile tubeless are actually faster. They are not. The glide on these tires is amazing. And if I leave the house with 100psi. I'm coming back home with 100psi. That's minutes of advantage right there.
Edit: I scrapped a longer post saying that someone was bound to call reinforced tires "garden hose". I'm ready anytime to show them the error of their ways.

alcjphil

The OP suffers frequent flat tires. You don't. Your profile lends no hint about whether you live in goathead country. For someone like the OP, tubeless ,might actually be useful

Leisesturm

I did get flats. That's the point. I don't any longer. O.p. also races. Trains for racing. In goathead country. Racing pressures are tough on tubeless. Even I know that. Can you put 100psi in a tubeless Continental? You can in a Hardcase. The mistake is in thinking that sealing flats is the strategy. Not getting flats is the strategy. Even in thorn country. Tubeless car/motorcycle tires have 1" thick steel and Kevlar belted carcasses that are literally bulletproof. They are meant NOT to puncture. If they do. Game over. Tire has to be removed and repaired. Maybe. Sometimes they tell you they can't/won't repair it for you. Why aren't tubeless bike tires made that way? At least one of the models of a given brand should be thornproof. Why not? It doesn't have to be 1" thick obviously but it can be thicker than they are currently made. Kevlar reinforced to whatever it needs to be to prevent punctures. Until they make them that way they are simply not ready for prime time.

PeteHski

Racing pressures of 100 psi? This is 2024 where the pros are typically running 60-70 psi tubeless. Even less on the cobbled classics.

calamarichris

Sure, flats are annoying, but there's always a bigger fish. Your tire got you home and then when flat? That's absurdly good luck.
After long, hard experience, I've always carried two tubes on every ride. But a few years ago, I got three flats on one 60-mile road ride. (And yes, I've also learned from long, hard experience to carefully check the inside of the tire casing to ensure the piercing contaminant had been removed.)
Used up both my tubes and was walking 8-miles home in my thin cycling socks when a kindly fire-chief (shout out to the Elfin Forest FD in CA) and his wife picked me up and drove me home. Wouldn't let me pay for their gas or trouble.
Flats are part of the game. Thankfully cellphones and Uber are now also part of the game.

Edit: Absurdly bad luck is when you flat on a shoulderless, high-speed road on a hot day; standing sweatily in the dirt and rocks in your ridiculous plastic shoes with cars whizzing by while spooning the tire off the rim with sweat constantly getting in your eyes. Had that happen a few times. Made me question my choice of sport.

Troul 

your luck might have changed & that pesky slow leak could just be needing a little more snug of the presta valve body going thru the wheel cavity.

staehpj1

Also running it a bit sometimes is required. That or using a little more sealant than recommended. Losing 10 psi overnight is kind of minimal and likely to be resolved with a good ride to get it well seated. I typically ride them as soon as they are installed. When I don't they have often leaked a little bit until I do put a few miles on them.

Koyote

Lighter, more supple tires are indeed faster; that's well-established. And tubeless tires, being more resistant to deflation, can hardly be called "fragile."

Why would anyone want to run 100 psi in a tubeless tire? That would be slower and less comfortable.

Nonsense. Do you realize that there's thing thing called the internet, where you can find that your claim is simply bogus?

I'm going to quote myself - wrote this just yesterday in another thread:
"One of the big sources of confusion and disagreement here on bf is that the people who denigrate newer tech (especially things like disc brakes and tubeless tires, but also sometimes cf) have never even tried it and hence don't understand it...while those who endorse the new tech have, in fact, usually had much experience with the old tech and hence actually know what they're talking about."
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indyfabz

I pulled this out of my tubeless car tire a week or so ago. The air slowly leaking from the hole was depressing. Can I sue IKEA?

staehpj1

No patch kit? Not even a few peel and stick glueless patches?

Leisesturm

]Lighter, more supple tires are indeed faster; that's well-established. And tubeless tires, being more resistant to deflation, can hardly be called "fragile."

Fragile is as fragile does. Only you would try to argue that just about anything is 'fragile' compared to a Marathon Plus.



Why would anyone want to run 100 psi in a tubeless tire? That would be slower and less comfortable.

It would not be slower on any road worth riding, and ... comfort? Comfort?? How much comfort do you want/need when you are trying to bust out a KOM?



Nonsense. Do you realize that there's thing thing called the internet, where you can find that your claim is simply bogus?

OMG I can't believe you decided to fact check that! You will note, in ALL the pictures they are shooting at the _______ sidewall! Is that where the Goathead is going to enter? But, is that the POINT? Most of us don't have to worry about 9mm slugs coming in at 2K/fps.

I'm going to quote myself - wrote this just yesterday in another thread:
"One of the big sources of confusion and disagreement here on bf is that the people who denigrate newer tech (especially things like disc brakes and tubeless tires, but also sometimes cf) have never even tried it and hence don't understand it...while those who endorse the new tech have, in fact, usually had much experience with the old tech and hence actually know what they're talking about."
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No one who knows me would accuse me of being against new tech. I'm not. But I can read. God help me, I can read. When y'all stop posting about your tubeless miseries I might think about it.

BobbyG

Tire liners! (with inner tubes)

We have goat heads here in Colorado Springs, where I commute. I used to get 2-3 flats a month. Fifteen or twenty years ago I started using tire liners and went to 2-3 flats a year.

Tire liners let me ride more supple tires. I've tried reinforced flat-resistant tires and I hated their dull, lifeless character (although they had nice grip).

Goathead thorns, small pieces of glass and wire and very small nails and screws are no longer ride killers, although two or three large roofing nails and a couple of freak machine screws have made their way in through the unprotected side wall. Also once some bailing wire.

I will also say that if a big enough hole wears into the tire over time and debris gets in, it will eventually work its way between the inner tube and liner and cause flats.

So while tire liners don't provide as much protection as reinforced tires they let me ride more enjoyable supple tires.

I have no experience with tubeless tires.

CAT7RDR

Plainly, there is no 100% correct answer that suits everyone on earth.
And, no one tire is 100% puncture and cut proof.
So, it is a balance of what best fits your needs.

For myself, and I alone, I prefer a more robust tire that will withstand riding through a debris field of broken glass and not even leave a small cut on the thread.
Of course my vision, depth perception, color blindness and poor contrast makes my choice of a touring tire make sense. I am not avoiding flats like most of you.

I've seen firsthand how a cut sidewall will spew sealant and not seal.
Checkout some George Vargas vids on youtube and get his informed expert opinion on running a tubeless setup.

Happy Trails!

Koyote

If you're so great with new tech, perhaps you can learn how to quote posts properly?

​​​​​​I think this is a typo? Makes no sense. Especially since I've not even mentioned Marathon Plus tires.

Lighter and more supple tires are always faster by some margin - on any road. Again, that's been conclusively established. And I like comfort..don't you?

Plenty of the linked videos show people shooting .22 rounds (i.e., small caliber) through sidewalls and treads. Your claim about auto tires is as incorrect as your claim about bike tires.

You're the one who made the claim. I was just checking to see if you were batting a thousand -- and you were! Wrong on every point.

indyfabz

Another success. Tune in next week.

DangerousDanR

I an a "person of unusual size" so I run my 25 cm tubeless at 105 psi. I run the 28 mm tubeless at around 90 PSI.The only flats I have had have been large cuts that left the tire unusable. My commute takes me past North Dakota State University, and those upstanding folks can't seem to put beer bottles in the correct bin...

I also have some Schwalbe Almotion which I run tubeless at around 65 PSI. They are on the gravel/commuter. I also run Gravdal tubeless on that bike in the winter at around 60 PSI. Zero flats on these tires... ever. But I wouldn't run these on a fast group ride or on a race bike. Arguing for Gator skins on a race bike is sick and it is wrong.

Leisesturm lives in the Portland Oregon area where the major hazard are pieces of glass from broken bottles. I lived in the Coast Range for 40 years. My daughter used to live a few blocks from the Rose Garden , so I know the area quite well.

I have run Continental, Vittoria, Goodyear, and Schwalbe tubeless 25 and 28 mm tires. Run 32 mm GP5000 TL on the tandem with zero flats and will switch to GP5000 s TR when the last of the TL wear out. Yes, I ride a fair bit of miles. I did have a couple of flats with Marathon tube tires on the tandem. Go figure?

One other note: I have tried five different brands of sealant including Stan's and Muc Off, and only Orange Seal seems to work well on road tires. Also, I have had tires which would loose the kind of pressure the OP indicated (10 PSI overnight ) initially, but which stopped loosing pressure with time.

mschwett 

it depends on the type of puncture. something really tiny like a bit of steel wire, mostly you never even know. the tiny tiny hole gets immediately clogged from the inside by the sealant that gets pushed out by the air pressure. you may never see the evidence, and nothing needs to be done.

a thorn might be big enough that as riding you’d see and hear the PSHHH and some sealant either squirting or bubbling out. typically for that, you stop, remove it, and spin the tire around to assist in getting enough sealant pushed through the hole to seal up. after this, you either keep riding or if you lost a lot of air, pump up a bit. it sounds sketch but i had this happen on a 40+ mph 2,500’ descent, i slowed and stopped halfway, hit it with a CO2 cartridge, spun the tire and jumped back on. it was a piece of thorn in my front tire, i don’t want to think about sudden deflation at 45 on a tire without sealant.

a REALLY big hole, you either a) trash the tire or b) jam a “plug” in from the outside, add sealant through the valve opening, and reinflate. i like this one https://shop.dynaplug.com/products/dynaplug®-pill which is tiny, fast, and super easy to use. if you were losing pressure from multiple good size thorn hits, you might pull them out and use a few of these.

you would normally never pull the tire off to do anything except trash it for a new one. tubeless sounds complicated but it’s just different - and the various things you might do (add air, add sealant, plug a large hole) are all super easy.

PeteHski

What I’m reading here is the OP suffering flats on every ride and about you running rock hard reinforced tyres to avoid flats. Meanwhile I have no flat issues running the same tubeless tyres that actually win pro races. No misery here.

Koyote

On a recent ride, I spent a little time on a highway and heard a rhythmic 'clicking' as my wheels turned. Got home and found this buried in my rear tire. Tire had not lost any air. Pulled out the nail, jammed in a plug, and about 600 miles later the tire is still in use. I didn't have to run a slow, heavy, rough-riding tire, didn't have to change a tube on the side of the highway in 40-degree temps, and the "fix" took about 60 seconds in the comfort of my garage.

But yeah, Leisesturm , tubeless tires are misery!