How can a $14,000 bicycle possibly be worth the money?
01-15-23, 11:55 PM
#352
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One reason I ride a 27 year old Merlin is that nothing has ever felt so nice to ride.
If a $14,000 bike feels greater than anything else, I can see why you'd want one. (I just don't personally think any of the disc bikes feel very nice.)
If a $14,000 bike feels greater than anything else, I can see why you'd want one. (I just don't personally think any of the disc bikes feel very nice.)
01-16-23, 12:12 AM
#353
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My 27 year old Litespeed Classic (is that how old a '96 is) is one of my top two most comfortable bikes. The other one is the 12 year old Felt "Z" CF bike. Both are rim brakes, but that doesn't really have to do with comfort. It's totally fit really and also geometry, angles stay length, etc. I have a "new" titanium gravel bike (Lynskey GR300) which is also very comfortable - again because I buy and build based on fit. It has disc brakes which are fine and caused me to learn some new stuff which isn't bad at my age. I'm even getting used to the aesthetic of them and they've gone from a "why?, they're ugly too" for me to "meh, it doesn't matter, they work fine and look OK".
01-16-23, 08:14 AM
#354
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My 27 year old Litespeed Classic (is that how old a '96 is) is one of my top two most comfortable bikes. The other one is the 12 year old Felt "Z" CF bike. Both are rim brakes, but that doesn't really have to do with comfort. It's totally fit really and also geometry, angles stay length, etc. I have a "new" titanium gravel bike (Lynskey GR300) which is also very comfortable - again because I buy and build based on fit. It has disc brakes which are fine and caused me to learn some new stuff which isn't bad at my age. I'm even getting used to the aesthetic of them and they've gone from a "why?, they're ugly too" for me to "meh, it doesn't matter, they work fine and look OK".
01-16-23, 09:40 AM
#356
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I suppose if we're talking steel bikes there must be special disc brake tubing for fork steerers that's thicker and larger. But only on the left side.
01-16-23, 10:29 AM
#357
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I guess a $14000 16lb bike can filter through congested traffic faster than my $200 (1979) 35lb bike.
01-16-23, 10:29 AM
#358
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If you'd read further, you'd see I already responded to that.
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01-16-23, 10:47 AM
#359
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how much extra material is put into disc brake forks when compared to rim brake forks? How much stiffer do they need to be? How is that tested?
I suppose if we're talking steel bikes there must be special disc brake tubing for fork steerers that's thicker and larger. But only on the left side.
I suppose if we're talking steel bikes there must be special disc brake tubing for fork steerers that's thicker and larger. But only on the left side.
On disc brakes, the forces are passed from the road 100% to the end of the fork through the disc, and from there to the frame.
It is for this reason that disc forks have to be stronger and unfortunately heavier. Every disc brake fork I've had through my hands at the shop has been substantially heavier than equivalent non-disc versions. It is for this reason that disc-brake road bikes ride 'dead' and non-compliant. I suppose this is the reason that bikes have gone to larger tires: to compensate for the stiffer frame and fork requirement. But then bigger tires are also heavier.
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01-16-23, 10:52 AM
#361
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01-16-23, 10:54 AM
#362
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On a rim brake bike with road calipers, much of the braking forces are transmitted from the road, passed through the wheel and then to the frame/rider through the fork crown area. The fork crown is already very bulked-up and strong.
On disc brakes, the forces are passed from the road 100% to the end of the fork through the disc, and from there to the frame.
It is for this reason that disc forks have to be stronger and unfortunately heavier. Every disc brake fork I've had through my hands at the shop has been substantially heavier than equivalent non-disc versions. It is for this reason that disc-brake road bikes ride 'dead' and non-compliant. I suppose this is the reason that bikes have gone to larger tires: to compensate for the stiffer frame and fork requirement. But then bigger tires are also heavier.
On disc brakes, the forces are passed from the road 100% to the end of the fork through the disc, and from there to the frame.
It is for this reason that disc forks have to be stronger and unfortunately heavier. Every disc brake fork I've had through my hands at the shop has been substantially heavier than equivalent non-disc versions. It is for this reason that disc-brake road bikes ride 'dead' and non-compliant. I suppose this is the reason that bikes have gone to larger tires: to compensate for the stiffer frame and fork requirement. But then bigger tires are also heavier.
how much extra material is put into disc brake forks when compared to rim brake forks? How much stiffer do they need to be? How is that tested?
01-16-23, 11:07 AM
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On a rim brake bike with road calipers, much of the braking forces are transmitted from the road, passed through the wheel and then to the frame/rider through the fork crown area. The fork crown is already very bulked-up and strong.
On disc brakes, the forces are passed from the road 100% to the end of the fork through the disc, and from there to the frame.
It is for this reason that disc forks have to be stronger and unfortunately heavier. Every disc brake fork I've had through my hands at the shop has been substantially heavier than equivalent non-disc versions. It is for this reason that disc-brake road bikes ride 'dead' and non-compliant. I suppose this is the reason that bikes have gone to larger tires: to compensate for the stiffer frame and fork requirement. But then bigger tires are also heavier.
On disc brakes, the forces are passed from the road 100% to the end of the fork through the disc, and from there to the frame.
It is for this reason that disc forks have to be stronger and unfortunately heavier. Every disc brake fork I've had through my hands at the shop has been substantially heavier than equivalent non-disc versions. It is for this reason that disc-brake road bikes ride 'dead' and non-compliant. I suppose this is the reason that bikes have gone to larger tires: to compensate for the stiffer frame and fork requirement. But then bigger tires are also heavier.
01-16-23, 11:21 AM
#364
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Or maybe you don't gotta admire it.
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01-16-23, 11:26 AM
#365
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We need a spit take emoji.
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01-16-23, 11:30 AM
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On a rim brake bike with road calipers, much of the braking forces are transmitted from the road, passed through the wheel and then to the frame/rider through the fork crown area. The fork crown is already very bulked-up and strong.
On disc brakes, the forces are passed from the road 100% to the end of the fork through the disc, and from there to the frame.
It is for this reason that disc forks have to be stronger and unfortunately heavier. Every disc brake fork I've had through my hands at the shop has been substantially heavier than equivalent non-disc versions. It is for this reason that disc-brake road bikes ride 'dead' and non-compliant. I suppose this is the reason that bikes have gone to larger tires: to compensate for the stiffer frame and fork requirement. But then bigger tires are also heavier.
On disc brakes, the forces are passed from the road 100% to the end of the fork through the disc, and from there to the frame.
It is for this reason that disc forks have to be stronger and unfortunately heavier. Every disc brake fork I've had through my hands at the shop has been substantially heavier than equivalent non-disc versions. It is for this reason that disc-brake road bikes ride 'dead' and non-compliant. I suppose this is the reason that bikes have gone to larger tires: to compensate for the stiffer frame and fork requirement. But then bigger tires are also heavier.
01-16-23, 11:31 AM
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01-16-23, 11:39 AM
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01-16-23, 11:43 AM
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280g? Seriously? I'm curious to see how Dave Mayer spins this one.
01-16-23, 12:06 PM
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I know someone who is into bike competitions and trains year round.Puts in thousands of miles during all four seasons even joining other races in Europe.His bike cost him a little over $7000.When I hear the name “Specialized” I now think of Specialized middlemen who don’t build anything out of their own parts but out of other peoples parts.The majority of the bike industry IMHO runs on this business model and just drives the price up just everything else but what do I know.
01-16-23, 12:09 PM
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I know someone who is into bike competitions and trains year round.Puts in thousands of miles during all four seasons even joining other races in Europe.His bike cost him a little over $7000.When I hear the name “Specialized” I now think of Specialized middlemen who don’t build anything out of their own parts but out of other peoples parts.The majority of the bike industry IMHO runs on this business model and just drives the price up just everything else but what do I know.
01-16-23, 12:20 PM
#372
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And here I thought the problem was too many proprietary components that you can't replace with aftermarket bits.
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01-16-23, 12:22 PM
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01-16-23, 12:24 PM
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I know someone who is into bike competitions and trains year round.Puts in thousands of miles during all four seasons even joining other races in Europe.His bike cost him a little over $7000.When I hear the name “Specialized” I now think of Specialized middlemen who don’t build anything out of their own parts but out of other peoples parts.The majority of the bike industry IMHO runs on this business model and just drives the price up just everything else but what do I know.
01-16-23, 12:25 PM
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The all steel fork on my Landshark was heavier than either of those two and it was quite compliant.