MinnMan

(I know that there have been previous threads like this, but not recently it seems....)

I'm thinking about a smart trainer. I don't really need one, but it's kind of like one of the N+1 thoughts.

I have an older dumb Kurt Kinetic trainer. It is 10 years old, but seems to be nearly indestructible. It has the larger flywheel on it.
I get my power numbers from my (Favero Assioma) pedals.
I use an older road bike that is dedicated to the trainer - I don't ever have to mount or dismount the bike from the trainer.
I ride Zwift a fair bit in the winter. Not usually racing (but occasionally). Mostly with the pace partners, a few group rides, and during the late winter/early spring interval workouts.

It is totally adequate. Probably the biggest hassle is during shoulder seasons, when I'm going back and forth between indoors and outdoors, and so I have to swap the pedals between bikes. During the winter, I'm not riding a road bike outside, and so the FA pedals stay on the trainer.

But I'm tempted by testimony that a smart trainer gives a more "realistic" experience. And the Wahoo Kickr Core is now only ~$600.

Regarding intervals, I actually think that the "smart" features could be a hinderance? If I want to maintain constant power through an interval, having the resistance change with the terrane would be a detriment. Would I always have to do my intervals on Tempus Fugit, or do smart trainers allow you to turn off the resistance changes with grade? Or does "erg" mode take care of this?

Folks who have made the switch - particularly those mostly riding in the Zwift universe - how much of a difference has it made to your experience?

WT21

If you are on ZWIFT and in ERG mode (or if you are doing a workout) the terrain does not impact resistance.

Black wallnut 

False.
if you are doing a workout the workout controls the resistance. If you are in an event or free ride ERG mode most definitely adjusts resistance based on the games terrain, incline, decline, and surface.

WT21

Yes, the workout controls the resistance, but based on the workout goals, not based on the terrain. I might be wrong about ERG mode in free ride. I only tried it I think once, but I thought you had control over the level of the erg such that you can spin at the same rate (and watts), and the speed of your bike will increase or decrease, based on terrain. but I could be wrong about that. I don't use it very often.

Personally, I like the SIM mode and switch gears. It's far more like being on the road.

WT21

There's also this "If you do a workout with a trainer that supports it, you may have the option to use ERG mode. ERG mode sets your resistance to a specific wattage target based on your cadence instead of basing it on the course gradient (SIM mode)." from https://support.zwift.com/erg-mode-i...%20(SIM%20mode).

"Question: which bear is best. False. Black Bear."

WT21

To the OP - why not just buy a new set of pedals? It's hard to justify tossing something that's been bullet-proof for you.

tempocyclist

A smart trainer is definitely worth it over a "classic" trainer, even if you do not use Zwift. There are a number of other platforms you can use too (FulGaz, TrainerRoad, indieVELO, Wahoo SYSTM, etc). They all have their strengths and differences. The smart element of automatically adjusting resistance does make the virtual worlds far more immersive and "enjoyable" to ride indoors.


You can ride in ERG Mode and a smart trainer will lock you into the correct resistance. All you need to do is keep pedalling. You can switch off ERG if you wish and use the terrain to control resistance also, like if you were completing the interval outside.


That is not ERG Mode. That is regular SIM Mode, where the resistance automatically adjusts based in terrain.

ERG Mode is where the trainer locks you into a certain power (and resistance) to match your prescribed interval power number during a workout.

Black wallnut 

Thanks tempocyclist for correcting my errors in terminology. To me the difference between the two is moot. In workouts the app controls the resistance, granted based on power targets, while outside of workouts the app controls the resitance based on terrain. In both cases the app controls the resistance. There are also other settings with a smart trainer, such as level mode.

Eric F 

I started on Zwift with a dumb trainer and did some group rides. It was better than listening to music and staring at a stopwatch. Getting a smart trainer made my Zwift experience a TON better. There are times I would rather do a group Zwift ride than ride solo on the road, especially if the real world is dark, wet, or cold. For a structured/programmed interval session, ERG mode creates the demand at the pedals, regardless of the terrain in the virtual world. I like this option when I want to do that kind of work.

MinnMan

Well, FA pedals, being power meters, cost more than a KICKR Core.

MinnMan

Thanks for the input folks. I may go for it.

But I might be more confused about ERG mode than I was before I read your posts.

Eric F 

Riding Zwift on a smart trainer in non-ERG mode, you will feel increased/decreased resistance in the pedals as the grade in the virtual world changes. It mimics the real world in that regard moderately well (except for being able to coast on moderate downgrades). The amount of power (measured in W/kg) you exert changes your speed in the virtual world.

ERG mode is based on just watts. In a programmed workout, a segment will be X duration at Y watts. Let's say the work segment of your chosen program is 30sec @ 500W. When you get to the start of that segment, you will need to put that many watts into the pedals to keep the bike moving in the virtual world. Cadence is irrelevant. You can do 500W at 100rpm or 50rpm, as long as it's 500W. Your cadence may even vary during the segment and the computer will adapt to it. (Note - Some programmed workouts have a recommended cadence for each segment). When that segment is over, there will be a new demand for X duration @ Y watts. Once you experience it, it will make total sense.

PeteHski

All you need to know is that ERG mode is completely independent of the terrain. So if you are riding a 200W interval in ERG mode, the only thing that changes with terrain is your avatar's virtual speed at 200W. Cadence is self-selected and trainer resistance adapts to maintain 200W.

Ignore "False" post #3

MinnMan

These explanations help, but I'm still not sure my interval workouts would benefit from a smart trainer.

To do an interval session now, I simply decide that my goal is, say, 3 sets of 5 X 1 minutes at 350 watts. I don't have to program anything, I just watch my power during the intervals and adjust my effort. If during the last interval I can't maintain 350 watts, I do what I can - 340 or 330 or....

In truth, I don't even need zwift for this, but watching the scenery go by is a nice distraction and zwift, transferred to Strava, easily produces a nice record of what I've done that I can go back and examine.

unterhausen

Intervals on a smart trainer are nice, because you don't have to do anything to change the power level. I liked not shifting, my trainer bike doesn't exactly have the best drivetrain. The downside is if you fail to hold the power level. I assume that's accommodated by software somehow. Someone that does intervals on zwift can fill us in.

MinnMan

Yes, that is one of the questions...

Sy Reene

Except outside of workouts if you have trainer difficulty set to zero. Then the resistance never changes, but of course your speed is still dictated by the wattage you're doing for the terrain you're riding.

WT21

To the OP:

If you are tired of switching pedals then it seems like you have one of two choices:
1. get another set of pedals
2. get a new trainer w/a power meter built in

If getting new pedals doesn't excite you, and a smart trainer is actually cheaper, then there really isn't any downside. You can set it up to run like you are now AND you get the added benefit of being able to try Sim mode which, to me at least, is a load of fun.

Therefore, IMO, your question actually is "how tired am I of switching pedals?" Are you $500 tired?

Or if you just need that GAS-induced push to get a new toy -- I will say a Smart trainer is worth it, IMO, exactly for the option of the Sim mode.

edit - one other question - would the new trainer be quite than your old one? Is that something you would value? My Wahoo Kickr is pretty darn quiet. My fans are louder than my trainer. If your trainer is old enough - maybe it's loud??? Just a justification for exploring the switch

spelger

zwift has a control that will allow you to reduce/increase the target power if so desired. i think the limit is 10% either way.

most apps have this feature.

MinnMan

I guess, yes and yes. Swapping pedals is a minor annoyance, but also I'm looking for that GAS. As with many others, Zwift has taken the trainer experience from being absolute drudgery to a reasonable experience, but anything I can do to improve the experience will result in more time in the saddle in winter. During the summer, I'm riding 12-16 hours/week, but in the winter it's more like 8. I'm not ever going to get to (or want to get to) 15 hours for typical winter weeks, but upping it some would be good.

To that end, I begin to wonder the new Wahoo Move, and so on. But I'm not prepared to pay that price tag...

ultrarunner

My father LOVES his Wahoo Kickr. Not sure what model, but it is very 'high end'. I've got a Kinetic and it works for me.

MinnMan

BTW, in a group Zwift ride one "feels" the hills without a smart trainer b/c you quickly sense that keeping with the pack requires increased effort.

unterhausen

Trainerroad has the +/- thing. I have only used it to increase power on very short intervals. But TR also seems to do okay if your power drops too far and doesn't simply lock the trainer up because you aren't at the power setpoint. It seems to drop the requested power if you get some % low, like 20%. I saw that the new Kickr bike has a feature along these lines.

Black wallnut 

Wahoo SYSTM has the +/- thing as well. Zwift and SYSTM also both IIRC have built in if you fail to hold the power or stop pedaling the resistance drops to almost none until you ramp back up to above the target.

himespau 

I used to use a power meter (either powertap hub or assioma duo pedals) with rollers with progressive resistance. When the fork stand on the rollers broke, I switched to a smart trainer (elite direto xrt). I don't think I'd switch back. So much more enjoyable with the resistance changing. Makes keeping up with groups easier too. A rocker plate made the setup even nicer.