Jiggle

Posted a Cyclingnews.com, modified for truth by Jiggle.


Colnago may be an Italian brand steeped in history but it's also a company that isn't afraid to copy Trek’s last year models.

Announced today is its latest collaboration with the automobile brand Ferrari: the 835g V1-r carbon fiber aero road bike, but made no comment on whether it is designed to snap in half on contact with a telephone pole.

Colnago says the new V1-r is a generally "more aggressive" race bike than the recently introduced C60. According to Colnago America national talking head Billy Kanzler, as he carefully avoided saying “Laterally stiff yet vertically compliant” while still packing in as many sexual metaphors as possible, the V1-r has a stiffer, racier, firmer, and more responsive feel than the Italian-made C60 flagship, and at 835g for a bare frame (size 48s, verified actual weight, midgets only), it's also the lightest frame Colnago has ever offered by nearly 150g.

Another departure for Colnago is a move to direct-mount brake calipers, including a rear caliper that's now located below the chain stays. Colnago says that this design looks different than the last one so they should be able to sell more frames, but more importantly, the design gives greater stiffness and modulation for those who use their rear brakes regularly, such as that guy on Youtube who rides his bike backwards down mountains. Additionally, the brake position acts as a sort of dirt catcher for the vulnerable bottom bracket shell area. Shimano-equipped complete bikes will come with Shimano brakes but Campy builds will avoid East Asian contamination and get Colnago-branded aluminum calipers made by Hayes.

As good as direct-mount brakes can be, Colnago also has a disc version of the V1-r in development for people who like to spend money on disc frames that can’t take greater than a 28mm tire. At both ends there will be some form of Hayes' slick – and very fast –and unnecessarily heavy – HexLock quick-release skewer system.

Airfoil tube profiles, ThreadFit 82.5 bottom bracket system

Subtle Kamm-style tube shaping lends the new V1-r a purported aero advantage over round-tubed bikes, too, with the truncated airfoil profiling being applied to the down tube, head tube, seat tube, and seatpost. Colnago says the sculpting makes the V1-r faster than a conventionally shaped frame "in all conditions" – although we should point out that there was no test data provided to support those claims, nor will there ever be.

Nevertheless, Colnago has never set out to create the absolute lightest, stiffest, or most aero machines – for a Colnago - and Kanzler stresses that the usual company hallmarks faithfully carry over. In particular, Kanzler says that despite the low weight, the V1-r is as durable, strong, and safe as any other frame by Scott that is 100g lighter.

Rest of story and pictures at the link.

Colnago launches the V1-r aero road bike | Cyclingnews.com

chaadster

Man, that bike looks very good to me, especially for a carbon bike. I'm no fan of all the swoopy lines and hunchbacked tubes; gimme good old fashioned geometrics! $5k for the frameset ain't crazy, either, though it is way beyond my means.

GhostSS

Huangism // A trite and/or clichéd remark about a bike

Commonly made by CyclingNews.com technical editor, James Huang, whose reviews are sometimes nothing but cliche-riddled re-hashs of manufacturers press release. An example of a Huangism is a statement like “laterally stiff, vertically compliant”.

StanSeven

Very nice. Looks great. It's time Colnago moved to the current industry trends instead of staying with notions about heritage and extra weight adds safety. To me that just meant they didn't want to invest in the future.

Nice change and a really sharp bike.

Jiggle

It just amazes me that he recycles the comments about the rear brake position like this is news. Yes, we know why they do it. That's what Trek's talking heads were saying TWO YEARS AGO. Everything on this bike is copycat from other manufacturer's last year model. There is nothing new. There is nothing to be excited about. It isn't even that light. You'd be better off with the latest Scott Addict.

merlinextraligh

^ But it says Colnago on it.

Homebrew01

Really ?

repechage

A few years ago this would have been a negative for me. I avoided owning a Colnago for many decades. In 1975 the advertising from Bikeology stated they were promised 500 frames that year exploding the idea of small Italian artisan builder. I now own two in my size, a '73 and a '69. They are a bit different from each other with the '73 bike being especially nimble.

Ernesto still does a good job with the geometry. He does not have an exclusive on this but does oversee some well designed bikes.

I like the bottom bracket insert they developed. I was considering a C-60, which I do consider overpriced. This bike made in the Orient saves quite a bit on production costs and some of that savings is reflected in the price. Interesting pricing strategy as the prior Ferrari collaboration models were very pricey, they are looking for volume here in comparison.

hamster

I don't see how they justify the price tag. Like others said, all significant features seem to be available from a number of other manufacturers, including Trek and Giant, at a 2x lower price. And since Colnago outsources manufacturing to Taiwan, its v1-r and competitors may even be made by the same third party from the same molds.

Find 10 differences:
https://colnago.com/wp-content/upload...AGO-V1r-03.jpg
https://s7d4.scene7.com/is/image/Trek...0,0&iccEmbed=0

The biggest redeeming factor is weight. 835g for an aero frame is extremely low. Other manufacturers get away with charging 4 grand for aero frames that weigh mid-900's. Though it remains to be seen how much it will weigh in a non-midget size.

First of all, you mean Scott Foil. And no, Scott Foil is not a match for V1-r. Just look at the brakes.

Jiggle

I'm going off the truth that these "aero" frames are pointless. Even Cervelo's test designed to show Cervelo in the best light was showing like a 1 minute improvement over a 4 hr ride.

If you want to get a light frame, get a light frame. Save the aero purchases for wheels and skinsuits.

hamster

First of all, you have your numbers mixed up. Cervelo reported 1.5 minute improvement over a 60 mile ride or the equivalent of extra 9 watt at 25 mph / 40 kph, not compared to a regular road bike, but comparing S5 compared to previous-generation S3. Comparing S5 with a typical non-aero road frame, they claim savings of "up to 32 watt at 40 kph" or as much as 1.5-2 minutes off a 40k TT time. (Incidentally, Giant claims savings of 12 s on a 40k TT using Propel Advanced SL, compared to Cervelo S5.)

Savings of 1.5 minutes on a flat 40k TT are equal to 2.5% faster speed. To get a 2.5% speedup going uphill, you have to shave about 4 lbs (1800 g) off the weight of your bike. Cyclists routinely spend big bucks to save 50 g here or there. How is that less pointless than getting an aero frame?

https://www.cervelo.com/media/docs/Ce...cddcd4f6-0.pdf
https://www.tealsport.com/_upload/sho...st_Results.pdf

grolby

Let me introduce you to basic premise in journalism: NEVER assume the audience has sufficient insider knowledge to understand every detail of a story without further explanation. Many readers actually do not know why the brake would be mounted underneath the chainstays, and it is a basic courtesy to them to explain why. This is called "respecting your readers," and "being good at your job." Huang does a good job and, believe me, has more bike tech cynicism ready to hand than you do. He also has considerably more expertise than you do.

Regarding the Colnago, it looks good, albeit absurdly expensive. I'm not sure how criticizing Colnago for making an effort to catch up to modern technology and design trends make sense; they're a lot worse off when they continue to sell ridiculously outmoded bikes for inflated prices by trading on the declining cache of their name. To their credit, they've recognized this and in the last couple years have actually started trying to get up to date and even act as innovators. They're still using the name to try and sell their bikes at outrageous prices, but if people are buying, fair play to them.

And as far as the aero frame thing goes, give me a break. If it isn't a priority that's fine, but improved aerodynamics do make some difference. Those improvements are small, but so are pretty much all bicycle performance improvements over the last few decades.

Silvercivic27

TL;DR (still better than a Caad9).

mprelaw

And it has Ernesto's signature on the seat tube.

Jiggle

All that makes sense. What I had in mind was this picture from the Tour Magazine test. I was mistaken in calling it Cervelo's test. They were the ones who tweeted it.



1.5 minutes difference over 4 hours between the best aero frame and the Scott Addict SL.

Jiggle

He wrote an article that was basically an advertisement. There was zero critical thought.

To their credit, they are being forced to adapt in order to not go out of business. It's a reluctant thing for them; they are not innovators.

My criticism isn't aimed at Colnago specifically though; I just read the article and thought it had a particularly high concentration of derp.

StanSeven

You got that exactly right. Over the last 15 years or so, they expected people to buy their bikes because of heritage and tradition. They finally got forced to adapt, even if it was just copying. But that said, I like it.

grolby

Believe it or not, the job of a tech reporter is not to perform an investigation of every single claim made by a manufacturer about their new product. Their job IS to report on new product releases that the journalist thinks are interesting or relevant to the readership. Colnago clearly either had an event or sent their rep around with a bike for some photos and some information. That's basically part of the game. If you pay attention, Huang makes it abundantly clear that these are claims by the manufacturer and that it looks interesting, but also says he's planning on reviewing it when that becomes possible.

There are definitely criticisms to be made of the symbiotic relationship between manufacturers and the press. This is true in any industry, but especially in niche ones like cycling. It's problematic in a lot of ways that many of these publications are dependent upon advertising revenue from these manufacturers to exist, and that manufacturers depend on them to spread information about their products. Dealing with that problem doesn't mean that every story on a new product has to be a piece of investigative journalism; that would be ridiculous.

I'd dare to venture that you have no idea how much of the job of a bike tech journalist like Huang involves getting press releases and pitches about products that really ARE B.S. and really are ridiculous. A major part of his job involves sorting through the crap that you'll never see and publishing information about products that are (as above) interesting, relevant, and credible. Colnago is talking up their bike, of course, but they are not making ridiculous claims about it. It's a pretty normal (and actually pretty boring) product release article. Neither derpy nor particularly guilty of advertorial content.

Dunbar

Those tube profiles don't look very aero.

Team Sarcasm

That was my first thought.

and 5k for a frame set? Not to mention the cost of components to maintain the miniscule aero benefits (if there even are any)....Sounds like a center piece bike rather than a bike to ride.

RJM

Looks pretty much like all the other black carbon framed bikes out there.

a huge meh.

hamster

As far as I can tell, this test assumes going up 2% grade at 200 W, one way (which gives you average speed ~14.4 mph). At this incline and speed, gravity dominates, and the return from improved aerodynamics is very limited. Conditions were probably picked because they put us in the exact neighborhood where the effect of frame aerodynamics is comparable with the effect of frame weight.

Not saying that it's not an interesting data point, but it has limited usefulness. As a point of reference, in these conditions (2% grade, 200 W), switching from a road bike to a full-featured TT bike (aero bars and all), assuming fixed weight, would save somewhere on the order of 10 minutes over 4 hours, most of it due to lying on aero bars.

P.S. Reading some more about the test, and getting more confused. It may not have been up 2% grade one way. It may have been a hilly 100 km loop with 2 km of climbing (or, in American units, 62 miles averaging 106'/mile of climbing). If it's the latter, and Cervelo's aero frame comes up on top, it's pretty remarkable.

Jiggle

Right, it was over a loop, so it is less remarkable for the aero frames than if it were all climbing.

chaadster

+1.

I knew James when he was a mechanic at my LBS a dozen years ago, and will attest he's experienced and has expertise.

chaadster

Trek gets credit for recycling a brake position that MTB bikes used 25 years ago? Pfftt. Whatever, dude.