c_booth

Firstly hello all - short time lurker first time poster here.

I'm hoping someone can give me a bit of advice on a possible tube rust situation.

I have a (reynolds 753) road frameset that I picked up cheaply at a car boot sale a while ago that I've been intending to build up, but I'm being held back by what could possibly be evidence of internal rust. When the frame is tipped upside down, it's clear to hear a fair bit of debris sliding around inside both the frame and forks. I've managed to extract most of the debris from the top tube through the vent hole in the head tube and it seems to be a mix of small chunks (not really flakes) of rusted metal and solidified mud/soil that crumbles between the fingers.
I suppose what I'd like to know is whether this is likely to be evidence of inernal tube rust (and would this render the frame structurally unsound) or is it more likely debris from the making process that's somehow got trapped in the tube (and if so is this a common 'characteristic' of hand made frames?). From the outside the frame looks in decent condition and looking down the headtube there doesn't seem to be any sign of rust.

I don't really want to go ahead and spend $$ on a new paint job for a knackered frame so any advice is greatly appreciated.

DMF 

There is obviously rust. Rust - especially scale - has a somewhat larger volume than the metal that oxidized, so don't make a direct correlation with volume. Otoh, not all the rust will be loose. Is there any sign of eruption - like bubbling in the paint? Especially around the welds.

Pop out the seatpost and take a look.

If there is severe rust, then tapping on the tubes will tell a story. If you plan to paint it, you'll have to disassemble anyway, so defer a decision until you have it apart.

Most likely there's some rust, but not enough to compromise integrity.

CACycling

Might want to ask this question over in C&V (Classic & Vintage). They can give you some advice on how to treat what you've got to keep it from progressing further.

c_booth

Thanks for the swift reply DMF.

I have it disassembled atm and there's not much sign of anything awry inside the seat/headtube. The paintwork has chipped in a few places so there's a bit of mild surface rust (which I guess is to be expected on frame that's at least 20 yrs old) but I can't see any bubbling anywhere. This is why I'm wondering could it be rusted filings left over from the making process?

You mention tapping the tubes - presumably this would dislodge any loose flakes from the walls of a heavily rusted tube?

To be honest I'm probably being far too cautious here - it's just mildly disconcerting when a frame makes that much 'tinkling' when you tip it upside down.

c_booth

Good idea thanks. Must say I had 'difficulty' deciding which section to put this in initially he he

BCRider

Any frame I've seen that had serious rust had the worst rusting in the BB shell and in the sections of the seat, downtube and stays that opened into the BB shell. That's where any water in the frame tends to puddle and where it'll do the most damage. If there is just some general light pitting in that area and the segments of the tubes that access the shell with no signs of rusting through then some cleanup and internal treatment to avoid things getting worse are all you'll need.

There are chemicals that will nuetralize rust and convert it to a hard black oxide layer. It is supposed to also stop the rust from continuing. That would be one way to start but you'll want to follow that up with something like frame saver to prevent the rust taking hold at some other point or re affecting the BB shell area.

Tinkling sounds in the rest of the frame would indicate small pebbles or sand that got in via the pressure vent holes that are drilled into the walls of the tubes. And it's showing up as the little mud balls and flakes you're finding. At least without seeing the junk that's coming out this is what I would expect. If there is lots of rust in the BB shell area then some of the brown dust and particles coming out will certainly be loose rust.

well biked

One key factor may be the fact that it's Reynolds 753 tubing. I think those tubing walls are probably pretty thin.

wrk101

+1 Usually rust is the worst in the bb area (you have to pull the bb to inspect of course). Water tends to collect in this area, you will get rust there, along with sometimes up the down tube, seat tube, and the chain stays. If these areas are open to the bb, you can also sometimes get rust to pour out into it from the various tubes.

If you have internal rust, then chemical treatment is your best option. I am a big fan of oxalic acid. Google it if you go that way, as there are many threads on that particular topic already.

If you do not see any signs of internal rust, then while you have the bike disassembled, this is a great time to apply framesaver to the frame and fork.

You also sometimes will see rust staining around the stay drain holes, particularly the ones by the dropouts.

Yan 

Most of the water gets into the frame via spray at the top of the seat tube, and collects at the bottom bracket area. If these two areas are ok, then the frame should be fine.

cia dog

I doubt it's rust your hearing, I think it's some sort of object that broke off of something and is bouncing around inside. That kind of rust all of you are taking about is unheard of!!! Unless the frame was sitting on the bottom of the ocean for several years before someone rescued it. I had a bike I rode literally on the beach were the sand was wet and was getting surf all over it and did this for years AND it sat outside uncovered in all sorts of weather and never had any significant rust that would flake off and create noise.

So I doubt it's rust, if by some weird chance it is then the frame is shot because 753 is thin tubing.

In the future to prevent rust just put a layer of grease on the seat post and seat tube making sure the seat clamp post slot is filled with grease, reinsert the post and wipe off any excess grease. Antirust goop is for the paranoid but if it gives you piece of mind then use it. The seat post area is where most water enters into a frame.

DMF 

No, just listen to the sound. A badly rusted area will sound different from a solid area.