c50jim

Until recently, I had only limited experience with ebikes. In early 2020, I rented an Orbea Gain with hub based assistance for a couple of days in Maui to try it out. I have a friend (then 89, now 92) whom I ride with and he was getting slower so I wanted to see how well ebikes work. I thought it would be great for him and he's enjoyed a Specialized Creo for three seasons now. This year, it seems as though he's using the second power setting a bit more than last year but that's age for you.


My wife and I did a tour in Mallorca in April. My wife is less active than I am and has various problems from arthritis. She had signed up for a regular hybrid and I had a road bike. Her first day wasn't much fun but fortunately the tour company had an extra ebike and she switched to it. I'd summarize her feeling as that she didn't like the bike (some heavy ~50 pound thing) but liked having the motor. It meant that she could still enjoy the scenery without getting too far behind the group. She's back on her regular bike around home but I wonder whether she'll decide to go to an ebike in future.


In early July, I did a trip in the Pyrenees with several friends. I'm 72 and they're 55-62. Ten years ago, I could keep up with them but now find that a lot harder than it used to be. So, this year I rented an ebike (Trek Domane with Fazua system). I also rented a second battery, thinking that I might need that on longer days. I found that the motor seemed to provide increased resistance if it were turned off. I also found that the lowest setting was OK on flatter stretches or hills up to about 4-5% but that I really preferred the second power setting on steeper or longer hills. The highest power setting just seemed weird and I didn't use it. I never used the second battery on rides up to 80 km. The other older guy who was using a similar ebike used the second battery most days. I'd characterize my feelings similar to my wife's - liked the motor but wasn't keen on the bike. Nothing particular, but I did find the resistance when not using the motor annoying and the bike did seem really heavy when I had to lift it onto the bike rack.


So, I'm watching the ebike market, knowing that my next bike is most likely to be an ebike (having said that, I did pick up a new regular bike for my cottage so I don't think an ebike is an imminent purchase for me). I think they're a great addition to the cycling world and expect that an ebike will extend my riding career.

yeamac 

New e-bike rider here, purchased a Cannondale Treadwell Neo e-bike for my wife this past Spring for her to be able to keep up with the family on rides. Long story, which I've told elsewhere, but suffice it to say after I tried her bike out one day, I was hooked and ended up eventually buying two e-bikes for myself — a Cannondale Tesoro Neo SL EQ (more like a hybrid) for family rides, bike overnights, limited commuting, and then a Topstone Neo SL gravel/road e-bike, which I use for solo distance rides. I like the rear hub system for reasons other have mentioned — just looking for a little assist, and want the bike to be a decent size/weight as I often ride the bike with the assist turned off, like when I ride with the family.

Before purchasing, reading online I was impressed by how consistent cyclists were about how much fun they were having with their new e-bike. Now that I've experienced it first-hand, I can say the magic is real. I was concerned I wouldn't get as good of a work-out. Was I ever wrong. You simply can bike faster and farther on an e-bike. One can push themself to their limit or be lazy on an e-bike or a traditional bike. It's 100% the rider. An e-bike gives the rider more options, that's all. When I ride with my family I have the assist turned off because turning it on makes me too fast for them to keep up with.

Looking at my own experience and reading comments like Biker395 above, it is interesting how everyone views e-bikes a little bit differently, and, probably like me, evolve over time in how they view them. For me, several months ago mention "e-bike" and I think of the people I see on these 70-pound fat-tire bikes cruising along at 28mph not pedaling. Now, I still don't consider such people to be cyclists. I draw the line at actually pedaling to be a cyclist and putting in some effort.

But to address Biker395 's comments, if you bought an assist e-bike for commuting, and had racks/fenders on it, and you pedaled to work, why would you no longer be a commuter cyclist just because your bike was an e-bike and not a traditional bike? As for recreational cyclist and endurance cyclist, same thing. Why does whether it is an e-bike or not make a difference? It's the rider that makes the difference, not the bike. You purchase a specific style of bike for a specific type of riding ... road, gravel, mountain/trail, cruiser ... add an "e-" to any of those frame styles still makes it suitable for that style of riding, it just gives you the option for electronic assist if you want it. Like I said, it's the rider. If a runner loses a leg and has a prosthetic leg fitted and after rehab they learn to run on that leg, are they no longer a runner because they have a prosthetic leg?

​​Anyway, I don't consider myself any less a cyclist for having an e-bike. I've ridden my e-bikes more in the past 3 months than I rode my traditional bikes in the past 8 years. So from that perspective, having an e-bike makes me MORE of a cyclist.

Biker395 

Imprecise writing on my part. I would certainly consider someone commuting by an ebike to be a cyclist.

Cycling means different things to different people, and covers a pretty broad demographic. And then there is the notion as to whether someone is a "cyclist." One could strongly argue that anyone that cycles is a cyclist, even on a very infrequent and casual basis (hopping on the strand cruiser to ride a mile or so to the beach and back once every couple of weeks or so). I would consider them to be a cyclist when they are on the bike (as in "Hey, watch out for that cyclist"), but I would not consider that individual to be a "cyclist," and I think if you asked them they would not disagree, as cycling is not a significant important part of their life.

Endurance cycling is a pretty small demographic. We are talking about people who are stretching their capabilities to ride 100, 200, 300 or even 400 miles in a day. Riding a bike those distances is a personal challenge that involves training, and depending on the ride, some sufferfesting. Example. I had done 2 double centuries some years ago and wanted to complete the triple crown by finishing the last DC of the year (the Death Valley Double). To make a very long story short, although it was easy on paper compared to other DCs (only 8Kft of climbing), I suffered big time to finish that ride. Bonked climbing the backside of Salsbury Pass, fought a headwind all the way down crappy roads and seemingly endless asphault to get back to the start at Furnace Creek. I bonked again and again, and frankly spent most of the ride right on the cusp of bonking and feeling like crap. The roads were so bad, my rear light vibrated off, so I had to go back to my room to get a replacement. OMG that bed and the cool room looked so inviting. But I sucked it up, got back on the bike and headed off for Stovepipe Wells, not even knowing if I had enough time to finish. As it turns out, I was able to complete the ride with a half hour to spare, but I was SPENT. I think the finish rate that year was about 50%. LOTS of people sagged in at Badwater. Some guy at the end mused "There ain't no such thing as an easy double century ... 200 miles is a hell of a long way to ride a bicycle."

What would all that mean if I did it on an ebike? Headwind? Bonking? Tough climb? Just not feeling it? No issue, just up the assist. Carry a spare battery if you have to. That makes for a more comfortable ride, but the whole point of endurance cycling is to challenge yourself and see what YOU can do, not using an electric motor on the ebike. Yes, you could ride the same ride with the assist off (seriously doubt it ... what would be the point?), or you could, at the end of the day, say to yourself that you did the whole double century with your assist set only to low (or some other such thing), but since there is no calibration of assist between systems let alone bikes, that too has little objective meaning. Or you could say you only used it when you were tired. But that is the whole point ... the real challenge is what you can will yourself to do WHEN you are really tired.

So no ... I would not consider someone on an ebike an endurance cyclist, at least not in the way I understand that demographic.

This subject recently came up in an endurance cycling group. The question was whether and under what circumstances should ebikes be allowed to enter double century events. The overwhelming consensus was that it was surely OK for them to participate, but if there were any awards to be offered for completing the rides, ebikes would need be in a separate ebike category.

All that said, I would get an ebike for my SO, and I could see buying myself one at some point. They certainly have their utility.

PS: To me, the runner is MORE of a runner with the prosthetic limb. A better analogy to an ebike would be, a system that uses a motor driven apparatus to add force or strength, or speed to your gait.

Classtime 

My son will never get an e-bike. But I can spoil my grandkids with these:

And for me:


I can keep up with my kids now.

Calsun

In California there are dozens of day trips for groups with e-bike being provided. Their customers feel more comfortable about being able to keep up with the other riders as a result of having an e-bike. There are many places where one can more fully enjoy an area by being out on a bicycle instead of inside a car but before the advent of e-bike very few people even tried to bicycle at all as adults.

Having a broader cross section of people out on bicycles is good for all bicyclists when it is no longer a fringe activity. I rememer a trip down the California coast and I was waiting outside a grocery store while my companion went inside for provisions. A young boy outside asked my if I had a car and when I told him I did it was not comprehensible to him that anyone would choose to ride a bicycle instead. At the time very few adults were buying and riding bicycles anywhere and those that did were considered freeks and bicycle clothing and shoes with metal cleats (tap shoes) did not help.

shelbyfv

Segways and electric scooters are also popular with tourists who can't get about on their own. Sometimes it's a little frightening to see.

Jklotz

I might be a little late to the party, but if I may, possibly a slightly different take on it?

I recently bought a Trek Domane+ ebike. A little back story; I cycled through my 20's and 30's and 40's. Used to race. Made it up to cat 3 and was knocking on cat 2's door, but team politics, sleeping with 5 other guys in a days in hotel room after grueling races and a training schedule that was pretty much a 2nd full time job without pay did me in. That and the crashes. After my last race, I was done. Burned out. I didn't care if I ever saw if I ever saw a bike again. Over the years, the thought about riding again would pop into my mind, but I still saw myself as a racer and just wasn't able to come to terms with starting over with the slow group, tooling around the park to try to burn a few calories. But that was where I was, start over or sit on the couch some more.

Today, I'm 58. I managed to stay active for the most part, but Covid put and end to that. So I got really good at cooking and eating. A couple of months ago, at my wife's nudging, I grudgingly joined a gym. I did some weights until tennis elbow put the cabash on that, so I started doing some cardio. Elliptical, pelaton bike, etc. Sorry, not my thing. Believe me, I tried. So I started to think back on those group rides I did back in the day, before racing. Man those were fun. We'd all go get pizza for lunch afterwards. I missed that. There's got to be a way to get in shape that's still fun, right? So I pulled out my old race bike. A Willer Izoard with 10 speed dura ace and Mavic Ksyriums. Holy crap, did I really used to be able to reach the bars and still be able to look up and see anything? Despite the aches and pains, I spent 2 months riding it, trying to do some base fitness stuff. Back int he day, we based everything on heart rate, and I still remember the coach telling us how important building an aerobic base was before working on really hard efforts. So that's what I have been working on. It didn't take long, however, before I realized my old race bike didn't fit me anymore, plus I don't want to spend all my time riding alone. So I got the Trek.

I think a lot of people think ebikes are like riding a motorcycle. Twist the throttle and go. Let me tell you that is absolutely not the case with these pedal assist bikes. At least not mine. If I pedal easy I get zero help. The more effort I put in, depending on how I have the power level set, the more assist I get. So on a group ride, instead of getting dropped on the first climb, if I really put out some effort, I can hang with the back of the group, and my heart rate is still spiking. When it levels out, I back off on the assist. Keep in mind, my goal is to regain a decent level of fitness, so I use the least amount of assist necessary to stay in. If I can get to the point where I can hang and have the thing turned off, that's what I will do. Doubtful, considering it weighs 27 lbs (my race bikes weighed 15.7 lbs), but I'd like to be able to. Bottom line, if I couldn't be out with my friends doing what I enjoy, I probably wouldn't be out riding. I've yet to do a ride where I didn't come in with 65% of the battery remaining. Maybe one day I'll go out and leave it on full power and see how long it will last before the battery dies. That could be fun.

My ride today, which I did alone, was 22 miles, rolling hills. My goal was to keep it in zone 3. Remember I'm still trying to build an aerobic base. Varying the lever of assist, I was able to spend 86% of my ride in the zone. Granted, no way I could have done that in a group ride, but at the end of the day, depending on your goals, a pedal assist bike can be a great training tool. And it beats the hell out of sitting on an exercise bike or a trainer IMHO.

As of today, I've managed to drop 8 lbs, mostly cycling. I still have a ways to go, my goal is another 10. I'm confident I'll get there, and the ebike is going to help me do it. Not only do it, but have fun doing it. In the mean time, I'm back to hanging with my friends on group rides, and yes, we still go get pizza after the ride. I couldn't do that on an analogue bike, at least not now. The day I can, and feel the weight of the ebike is holding be back, sans assist, I will probably buy the same bike I have now, but in the non "e" version. So say what you will about pedal assist bikes, but for me they are a game changer.

FWIW, no, I do not consider myself a real cyclist. Back when I was, I could do a 4 hour century. Unfortunately those days are behind me. But what I am now is a guy who is slowly getting back in shape, having fun doing it, on an ebike.

As a side note, I have found myself in situations, going up a climb, where I am able to pass people in the group because I'm on an ebike. I don't. I know, with the assist, I'll be able to catch back up on the decent. IMHO, there is a bit of a moral thing to it. Instead I choose to back down on the power and suffer with them. I burn more calories that way and am able to keep my friends who I will go get pizza with afterwards. As I said before, riding alone isn't as much fun.

bikerwannabe

well put.

bikerwannabe

nice looking bike!

bikerwannabe

"I think a lot of people think ebikes are like riding a motorcycle. Twist the throttle and go. Let me tell you that is absolutely not the case with these pedal assist bikes. At least not mine. If I pedal easy I get zero help. The more effort I put in, depending on how I have the power level set, the more assist I get. So on a group ride, instead of getting dropped on the first climb, if I really put out some effort, I can hang with the back of the group, and my heart rate is still spiking. When it levels out, I back off on the assist. Keep in mind, my goal is to regain a decent level of fitness, so I use the least amount of assist necessary to stay in. If I can get to the point where I can hang and have the thing turned off, that's what I will do. .....Bottom line, if I couldn't be out with my friends doing what I enjoy, I probably wouldn't be out riding. I've yet to do a ride where I didn't come in with 65% of the battery remaining. Maybe one day I'll go out and leave it on full power and see how long it will last before the battery dies. That could be fun."

This is my goal as well. I am not looking for a motor bike- I am looking for assistance so I can bike further, at more locations (not just flats) and with friends (all in their 70s) with varying abilities / injuries / stamina etc.

Speedway2

Been thinking to add a folding bike to the stall and now considering a geared one with battery assist, fenders and racks. Figuring a compact folder should make it easier to stow in the office.
There's a dedicated bike lane that I can ride to my "retirement job" (7kms away). The racks would be great to carry my lunch bag and extra "gear". The battery assist would be ideal for when the legs just aren't working especially after a shift.....

staehpj1

I do not own one and have not ridden one much but have had a chance to get on one breifly. I thought it was fun, Basically it was set up to provide assist only when I pedaled and much assist only when I pedaled harder. It felt like riding a regular bike as if I was a lot stronegr than I actually was.

I came away impressed, but not wishing I had one.

KPREN

I built an e bike for my wife in 2015 that she no longer rides but I decided to build myself a touring e bike in 2016 following a second hospital stay because of bonking. In the early days I used more power than I do today. I generally ride between 10 and 15 mph I love a cadence sensed bike and am very used to riding it. I went with a 52 volt BBSHD because I can program it. I have nine levels and my first six levels do not reach 500 watts. My lowest setting is about 50 watts. There is a 40% jump in power between level 8 and 9. 9 being unlimited. I like the BBSHD because I can program the power output for the throttle to something way less than stupid. My bike has 11 speeds with the largest cassette cog of 46 tooth. I can ride it around 10 mph without assist. My bike with 29 X 2.25 tires is 82lb and with 26 X 4.8 tires is 84lb
Todays ride of 32 miles was at level 1 and 2 (50-90 watts motor output) 12-15 mph on flat MUP Me, the bike and the dog weighed 300+ lb. My range at this usage exceeds 300 miles. I have 4 batteries in parallel. Without batteries my bike weighs 49lb.

Leisesturm

Would you slow down for her if you were riding together and she couldn't keep up? How much? Many women can only maintain 8mph - 10mph comfortably. E-bike bigotry is not a good look. Evolve please. You make this personal. You're not the only one but you take it to a whole other level. A person doesn't even have to be riding an e-bike recklessly to offend you. Just by being on an e-bike they debase themselves before you. So you wouldn't allow your kids (or spouse) or yourself, of course. To go near an e-bike. Fine. But its pointless trying to influence anyone else. You spend a lot of time doing just that. You've posted multiple times in this one thread.

Polaris OBark

shelbyfv

Thinking misogyny may be more offensive than "ebike bigotry."

big john

"Evolve please".

Classtime 

My wife can cruise at 15mph below her ventilatory threshold and we ride together. She’s a runner and does many training runs at 7.5mph. If she could only manage cycling at 9mph, she wouldn’t want to ride with me or me with her. We would do something else together like yoga or bird watching. I post in this thread, on the the 50+, because I qualify and have experience to share. There is an electric bike forum because bikes with motors are not bicycles despite what Madison Ave. has you believe. This thread should be moved. Some e-bikers are confident in their laziness and some are very defensive with regard to their pretension of cycling. You do you.

Leisesturm

Misogyny? How? Do you know the meaning of the word? Sexist would actually be the better word but I am neither misogynistic or sexist. Can't someone say something without the hyper-literal bandwagon looking for hidden meaning? If women were not usually the slower of a male/female pair would there be all this furah about previously male athletes competing as women? Would there? Does the stopwatch lie? When transcyclists routinely finish events five full minutes before the next female athlete does that invalidate what I say? I only pick on trans athletes because it is not yet legal for openly male athletes to compete directly with women. But maybe they should. That would I suppose not be misogynist to just not have any gender segregation going forward. SMH.

Leisesturm

E-bikes are bicycles whether you want to accept that or not. A heart rate of 170bpm indicates that most people are exerting themselves and people do attain heart rates of 170bpm and higher on e-bikes. Yours is the contrarion and outlier attitude and it would be moderation that determines whether a thread needs to be moved or not. When I ran I did many of my training runs at 10mph. I'm not sure how it would help me to train at 7.5mph because that is the speed my partner can maintain. I'm not sure why you dragged running into a cycling discussion because it makes it hard to discuss things intelligently. Is that your objective? Confuse the issue enough so you win on experience at deflection, misdirection? If an e-bike allows a slower (usually) female cyclist to maintain the speed of a faster partner or for both to reach a distant picnic spot in less time, why do you care so much? Treadmills have motors! It's been decades and decades since the days when they didn't. Would you want to go back to those days? Maybe, but most of humanity would not and they wouldn't waste as much time as I have already arguing with you about it. Things change.

shelbyfv

Sexist would be OK but I figured misogyny worked better with bigotry. Seems the point was made, regardless. I agree there is a more appropriate place for e-motor threads.

Classtime 

Leisesturm Things have changed. You will sell many more electric motorbikes because people are obviously looking for the easy way and convincing themselves it is the best way for their current predicament? Good News For Modern Man? Semaglutide shots and E-bikes are the next step in this current fitness craze.

I-Like-To-Bike

In contrast to some Real Serious Cyclists who can be very offensive with regard to their pretension about Real Cycling and what it entails?

PeteHski

It’s actually a sub-forum of a bicycle forum.

CAT7RDR

What would Sherpas think of riders on e-bikes in today's modern society?
That thought came up for some reason while pedaling today.

I understand the reasons and see the possibilities of aging out of a standard bike in 20 years.
For now, I'll stick to 7 mph up an 6-8% climb and take satisfaction in my meager ability.