A lot of the recent "innovation" is a bad bargain for anyone not pushing a competitiv
#101
Tragically Ignorant
Join Date: Jun 2018
Location: New England
Posts: 15,613
Bikes: Serotta Atlanta; 1994 Specialized Allez Pro; Giant OCR A1; SOMA Double Cross Disc; 2022 Allez Elite mit der SRAM
Mentioned: 62 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 8186 Post(s)
Liked 9,098 Times
in
5,054 Posts
Likes For livedarklions:
#102
Zip tie Karen
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Fair Oaks Ranch, TX
Posts: 7,004
Bikes: '13 Motobecane Fantom29 HT, '16 Motobecane Turino Pro Disc, '18 Velobuild VB-R-022, '21 Tsunami SNM-100
Mentioned: 26 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1465 Post(s)
Liked 1,542 Times
in
806 Posts
So much nonsense in this thread, including original post. I'd been away from BF for a week. Glad to be back. [palm to forehead]
Likes For Phil_gretz:
#103
Tragically Ignorant
Join Date: Jun 2018
Location: New England
Posts: 15,613
Bikes: Serotta Atlanta; 1994 Specialized Allez Pro; Giant OCR A1; SOMA Double Cross Disc; 2022 Allez Elite mit der SRAM
Mentioned: 62 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 8186 Post(s)
Liked 9,098 Times
in
5,054 Posts
But there have been long periods in the history of the car where there weren't fundamental technical changes. The US auto manufacturers were largely technically stagnant during the mid-1950s to the mid-1970s (or so) for example, most of the innovations being ones of styling during that period. "Innovation" at that point was basically let's see how big we can make the car, or how much engine we can pack into a little car..
Likes For livedarklions:
#104
Senior Member
I thought by now we'd have cars that fly. Or was that only on "The Jetsons"?
#105
I’m a little Surly
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Near the district
Posts: 2,423
Bikes: Two Cross Checks, a Karate Monkey, a Disc Trucker, and a VO Randonneur
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 699 Post(s)
Liked 1,296 Times
in
648 Posts
But there have been long periods in the history of the car where there weren't fundamental technical changes. The US auto manufacturers were largely technically stagnant during the mid-1950s to the mid-1970s (or so) for example, most of the innovations being ones of styling during that period. "Innovation" at that point was basically let's see how big we can make the car, or how much engine we can pack into a little car..
Likes For Germany_chris:
#106
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 5,979
Bikes: Colnago, Van Dessel, Factor, Cervelo, Ritchey
Mentioned: 8 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3968 Post(s)
Liked 7,386 Times
in
2,972 Posts
Likes For tomato coupe:
#107
Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Mich
Posts: 7,434
Bikes: RSO E-tire dropper fixie brifter
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6 Post(s)
Liked 3,003 Times
in
1,930 Posts
But there have been long periods in the history of the car where there weren't fundamental technical changes. The US auto manufacturers were largely technically stagnant during the mid-1950s to the mid-1970s (or so) for example, most of the innovations being ones of styling during that period. "Innovation" at that point was basically let's see how big we can make the car, or how much engine we can pack into a little car..
__________________
-Oh Hey!
-Oh Hey!
#108
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 5,979
Bikes: Colnago, Van Dessel, Factor, Cervelo, Ritchey
Mentioned: 8 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3968 Post(s)
Liked 7,386 Times
in
2,972 Posts
#109
Klaatu..Verata..Necktie?
Join Date: May 2007
Location: SF Bay Area
Posts: 18,042
Bikes: Litespeed Ultimate, Ultegra; Canyon Endurace, 105; Battaglin MAX, Chorus; Bianchi 928 Veloce; Ritchey Road Logic, Dura Ace; Cannondale R500 RX100; Schwinn Circuit, Sante; Lotus Supreme, Dura Ace
Mentioned: 41 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 10468 Post(s)
Liked 11,969 Times
in
6,129 Posts
Most drivers aren't that great in two dimensions. Imagine how they'd handle three.
__________________
"Don't take life so serious-it ain't nohow permanent."
"Everybody's gotta be somewhere." - Eccles
"Don't take life so serious-it ain't nohow permanent."
"Everybody's gotta be somewhere." - Eccles
Likes For genejockey:
#110
Klaatu..Verata..Necktie?
Join Date: May 2007
Location: SF Bay Area
Posts: 18,042
Bikes: Litespeed Ultimate, Ultegra; Canyon Endurace, 105; Battaglin MAX, Chorus; Bianchi 928 Veloce; Ritchey Road Logic, Dura Ace; Cannondale R500 RX100; Schwinn Circuit, Sante; Lotus Supreme, Dura Ace
Mentioned: 41 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 10468 Post(s)
Liked 11,969 Times
in
6,129 Posts
#111
Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2017
Location: Northern Virginia
Posts: 727
Bikes: Current: 2016 Bianchi Volpe; 1973 Peugeot UO-8. Past: 1974 Fuji S-10-S with custom black Imron paint by Stinsman Racing of PA.
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 215 Post(s)
Liked 204 Times
in
142 Posts
The innovation that has really benefitted the average rider is index shifting, especially being able to shift while keeping your hands on the handlebar. Partnered with shifting aids, it takes the lowest level of skill to operate.
I remember when Shimano came out with SIS. One of the negative aspects for professional riders was the loud click of the DA 7400 shifters. I had a set of 7401 shifters and they were so loud on a quiet route you could probably hear the click for an eighth of a mile. No sneaking up with those.
But my younger self did enjoy those times of trying catching up to someone knowing those shift clicks were heard coming up… lol.
John
I remember when Shimano came out with SIS. One of the negative aspects for professional riders was the loud click of the DA 7400 shifters. I had a set of 7401 shifters and they were so loud on a quiet route you could probably hear the click for an eighth of a mile. No sneaking up with those.
But my younger self did enjoy those times of trying catching up to someone knowing those shift clicks were heard coming up… lol.
John
That said, much of this thread has a lot of venting and sore nerves, as well as plain old luddism. My take is there have been massive improvements in function since my 1973 Peugeot UO-8 (which I like for its looks and as a reminder of progress). SIS is the big one, as is available brake technologies, and frame dynamics. I am a big fan of SIS, but not the added complexity of replacing cables due to aero features, BUT I can live with it, as it is better, even though I am well versed in friction shifting. Brakes, to me are a different issue, and I prefer rim brakes. I used to think threadless stems were clunky, until the first stem change. WHAT? I do not have to redo the bar tape, etc. SOLD for me! I also like the ability to personalize the stem cap . Pedals, I use what I use, and care less what others use.
Aesthetically, I greatly prefer a diamond frame of the non-compact variety, or with a slightly sloping top tube. And I prefer a steel frame, but I want my SIS, threadless steerer and stem (with curved fork blades) and canti brakes. Would I buy carbon or aluminum? Yes, if I found a bike I liked.
I have heard lots of cases made for tubeless tires. I will stick with tubes for simple easy of maintenance, similar to my rim brake preference. Additionally, I have never had a snakebit tube problem.
What I do not like in general is proprietary stuff. It is often elegant and functional, but only if enough people buy and use it, and I hate being stuck with low supply or possible tech orphans. (What can I say, I owned an SAAB, fortunately before they were orphaned.)
My solution is to buy what I want or like, and admire good looking bikes of all genres.
Now for the people using a tech analogy. Why in creation would I watch a movie on my iPhone when I can watch a 60+ inch TV with surround. Same for PC monitors, you keep those 19, 24, and 27" screens, living is a 32" screen and 5.1 speakers. Same with cars, in tests of vintage, stock muscle cars, the newer cars are faster AND they can corner, all while doing better than the 7MPG of a Ford 427 side oiler with 2 4bbls where you could actually see the gas gauge needle drop. Also, you may not need under 10 second 0-60 times, but under 7 seconds sure makes merging easy.
In summary, we all have our definitions of bargains, good or bad. Use, buy, keep, upgrade, or discard, what you want.
Last edited by Bill in VA; 06-30-21 at 02:04 PM.
#112
Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: Mission Viejo
Posts: 5,823
Bikes: 1986 Cannondale SR400 (Flat bar commuter), 1988 Cannondale Criterium XTR, 1992 Serotta T-Max, 1995 Trek 970
Mentioned: 20 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1948 Post(s)
Liked 2,180 Times
in
1,328 Posts
The another lasting innovation is disc brakes.
Because they stop better or easier to maintain?
No, because apart from damage, rims can last for as long as the rider wants to ride them. There is rim wear from the brake pads.
And with cartridge bearings, wheels could last a lifetime.
John
Because they stop better or easier to maintain?
No, because apart from damage, rims can last for as long as the rider wants to ride them. There is rim wear from the brake pads.
And with cartridge bearings, wheels could last a lifetime.
John
Likes For 70sSanO:
#113
Guest
Join Date: Sep 2020
Posts: 2,888
Mentioned: 13 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1346 Post(s)
Liked 3,270 Times
in
1,439 Posts
#114
Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: Mission Viejo
Posts: 5,823
Bikes: 1986 Cannondale SR400 (Flat bar commuter), 1988 Cannondale Criterium XTR, 1992 Serotta T-Max, 1995 Trek 970
Mentioned: 20 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1948 Post(s)
Liked 2,180 Times
in
1,328 Posts
Well built and maintained rims usually don’t crack.
There can be road damage, which is unavoidable, but most rims wear out, especially riding off-road.
John
There can be road damage, which is unavoidable, but most rims wear out, especially riding off-road.
John
#115
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 5,979
Bikes: Colnago, Van Dessel, Factor, Cervelo, Ritchey
Mentioned: 8 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3968 Post(s)
Liked 7,386 Times
in
2,972 Posts
Likes For tomato coupe:
#116
Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Mich
Posts: 7,434
Bikes: RSO E-tire dropper fixie brifter
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6 Post(s)
Liked 3,003 Times
in
1,930 Posts
#117
Klaatu..Verata..Necktie?
Join Date: May 2007
Location: SF Bay Area
Posts: 18,042
Bikes: Litespeed Ultimate, Ultegra; Canyon Endurace, 105; Battaglin MAX, Chorus; Bianchi 928 Veloce; Ritchey Road Logic, Dura Ace; Cannondale R500 RX100; Schwinn Circuit, Sante; Lotus Supreme, Dura Ace
Mentioned: 41 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 10468 Post(s)
Liked 11,969 Times
in
6,129 Posts
#118
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 5,979
Bikes: Colnago, Van Dessel, Factor, Cervelo, Ritchey
Mentioned: 8 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3968 Post(s)
Liked 7,386 Times
in
2,972 Posts
#119
Klaatu..Verata..Necktie?
Join Date: May 2007
Location: SF Bay Area
Posts: 18,042
Bikes: Litespeed Ultimate, Ultegra; Canyon Endurace, 105; Battaglin MAX, Chorus; Bianchi 928 Veloce; Ritchey Road Logic, Dura Ace; Cannondale R500 RX100; Schwinn Circuit, Sante; Lotus Supreme, Dura Ace
Mentioned: 41 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 10468 Post(s)
Liked 11,969 Times
in
6,129 Posts
The 'galvanization...." comment was in response to someone saying there was little innovation in auto technology in the US from the 1950s to the 1970s.
__________________
"Don't take life so serious-it ain't nohow permanent."
"Everybody's gotta be somewhere." - Eccles
"Don't take life so serious-it ain't nohow permanent."
"Everybody's gotta be somewhere." - Eccles
#120
Guest
Join Date: Sep 2020
Posts: 2,888
Mentioned: 13 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1346 Post(s)
Liked 3,270 Times
in
1,439 Posts
Of course they don't "usually" crack, but a wheel's lifespan depends on more factors than the brake type.
The sidewall of a disc brake wheel can outlast that of a rim brake wheel, but that's not the only place that a wheel deteriorates.
The sidewall of a disc brake wheel can outlast that of a rim brake wheel, but that's not the only place that a wheel deteriorates.
Last edited by Rolla; 06-30-21 at 03:49 PM.
#121
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 5,979
Bikes: Colnago, Van Dessel, Factor, Cervelo, Ritchey
Mentioned: 8 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3968 Post(s)
Liked 7,386 Times
in
2,972 Posts
Sorry, I didn't see the time frame. Either way, the real advances in cup holder technology are coming soon, when smart-holders become available later this year.
Likes For tomato coupe:
#122
Advocatus Diaboli
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: Wherever I am
Posts: 8,656
Bikes: Merlin Cyrene, Nashbar steel CX
Mentioned: 14 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4755 Post(s)
Liked 1,537 Times
in
1,006 Posts
I'm not against modern stuff, but your post has me curious to know how much if any of the 4 minute difference is due to different tyres and/or if the gap would be reduced if you were to upgrade your brakes(with what is technically and financially feasible) on your older bike?
#123
Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: Mission Viejo
Posts: 5,823
Bikes: 1986 Cannondale SR400 (Flat bar commuter), 1988 Cannondale Criterium XTR, 1992 Serotta T-Max, 1995 Trek 970
Mentioned: 20 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1948 Post(s)
Liked 2,180 Times
in
1,328 Posts
Some mfg’s have hard anodized the braking surface, to slow this down, but that has braking trade-offs.
People will always find a reason for rims to fail, but in the future it won’t be due to a worn through brake surface.
Disc brakes are here to stay.
John
#125
Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Mich
Posts: 7,434
Bikes: RSO E-tire dropper fixie brifter
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6 Post(s)
Liked 3,003 Times
in
1,930 Posts