Geoffrey Butler... How would you build it...
#26
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I'd build it up to be the race bike it was intended to be.
The only serious question I have is about the wheel size it was intended to use - 700c or 27 1/4". I'd want to use 700c (tubulars if you can afford it and value the expenditure).
I wouldn't decal it as Geoffrey Butler unless you are 100% certain of its pedigree.
The only serious question I have is about the wheel size it was intended to use - 700c or 27 1/4". I'd want to use 700c (tubulars if you can afford it and value the expenditure).
I wouldn't decal it as Geoffrey Butler unless you are 100% certain of its pedigree.
H Lloyd does have the decals
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#27
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That's an interesting question. The LBS has been sitting on a partial group for the last five years, and they started hinting (again) that I should buy it. I went on eBay and looked at completed listings...and I've never seen such a huge variation on pricing for both groups and individual bits.
You can get it as expensive or cheaply as you want it, if you're willing to wait.
-Kurt
You can get it as expensive or cheaply as you want it, if you're willing to wait.
-Kurt
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#28
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I did ask if you could forward (ie. an image) the frame number. I know Geoffrey Butler cycles, used to walk/cycle past their shop on my way to school back in the day. They did not build frames (in a sense there's no such thing as a genuine Geoffrey Butler): they were bought in from numerous builders - I am just trying to provide some background knowledge !!!
I also have two.
John.
I also have two.
John.
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Ah, memories.
I got my hands on a new, unpainted Geoffrey Butler frame from the factory in 1974. Very similar to the photo, except the fork had a sloping crown.
It was my first "serious" build. Full Campy Record (except the brakes, which were Shimano). Cinelli bars and stem. Record small flange hubs, Fiamme Yellow Label rims, silk tubulars, Brooks Professional saddle.
I cherished that bike.
I got my hands on a new, unpainted Geoffrey Butler frame from the factory in 1974. Very similar to the photo, except the fork had a sloping crown.
It was my first "serious" build. Full Campy Record (except the brakes, which were Shimano). Cinelli bars and stem. Record small flange hubs, Fiamme Yellow Label rims, silk tubulars, Brooks Professional saddle.
I cherished that bike.
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#30
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Ah, memories.
I got my hands on a new, unpainted Geoffrey Butler frame from the factory in 1974. Very similar to the photo, except the fork had a sloping crown.
It was my first "serious" build. Full Campy Record (except the brakes, which were Shimano). Cinelli bars and stem. Record small flange hubs, Fiamme Yellow Label rims, silk tubulars, Brooks Professional saddle.
I cherished that bike.
I got my hands on a new, unpainted Geoffrey Butler frame from the factory in 1974. Very similar to the photo, except the fork had a sloping crown.
It was my first "serious" build. Full Campy Record (except the brakes, which were Shimano). Cinelli bars and stem. Record small flange hubs, Fiamme Yellow Label rims, silk tubulars, Brooks Professional saddle.
I cherished that bike.
John.
#31
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Well, the frame was from a factory, and it was unpainted. It still had the brazing flux around the lugs, which I had to clean up before painting. An unnamed person from the UK brought it as carry on luggage and delivered it in person to my dad.
#32
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Deleted.
Little point trying to help on this thread.
John.
Little point trying to help on this thread.
John.
Last edited by hobbs1951; 09-05-19 at 11:53 AM.
#33
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I would love to post the serial number but it is not that easy. I live for the most part in Cambodia and only visit the States 3 months of every 24. I will not see that bike until April at the earliest unless something drastic happens. You might search through the previous thread that Randy had posted when he was looking for information on the bike. The link to that thread is in post #26 .
I just went to the above mentioned thread and Randy had posted an image of the nds drop out with the serial number, 70227
I just went to the above mentioned thread and Randy had posted an image of the nds drop out with the serial number, 70227
Last edited by bwilli88; 09-05-19 at 09:16 PM.
#34
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A frame commissioned by Geoffrey Butler, to Geoffrey Butler specifications, marked with a Geoffrey Butler serial number, is a Geoffrey Butler frame.
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#35
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I eventually did find the serial number on one of Randy's old threads about this bike. I did appreciate your input about Butler's and did want to copy your images.
Now how would you build my frame as the original post and question?
Now how would you build my frame as the original post and question?
#36
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It's not a complete group, and I did ask today. I got a half-joke reply of $500, followed by "Yea, that's too much, right?"
It's not a bad selection though, and the worst part about it were the hoods, IIRC. I think the hubs are there, but the seatpost isn't - something like that.
I'd offer to FaceTime you with the shop tomorrow, but that might not work...it'll be 3 in the morning where you are
-Kurt
It's not a bad selection though, and the worst part about it were the hoods, IIRC. I think the hubs are there, but the seatpost isn't - something like that.
I'd offer to FaceTime you with the shop tomorrow, but that might not work...it'll be 3 in the morning where you are
-Kurt
#37
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#38
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#39
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So far I have gotten a few suggestions for; 3 for a Nuovo Record, as original, 2 for a Sante group build, 3 for a Huret Jubilee build (I like that one though pricey), 1 or 2 build it modern along with a Mavic and a Suntour suggestion.
So these are a few of my thought running around my upper brain housing unit; Take the Shimano Arabesque 600/Diacomp setup I have from my 78 SuperCourse or the Shimano 105 series 5500 3x9 from my Zunow.
I have been rolling a Huret Jubilee shifter/RD/FD with Mavic Racers build around in my head.
Thinking also of my latest build here in Cambodia is a 2x10 Flat bar Ultegra/Dura-Ace build (Ultegra for the RD, Flat bar rear shifter, Brakes and flat bar levers with Dura-Ace for the DT front shifter running a Dura-Ace FD.
Full Suntour Superbe Pro would be sweet.
So these are a few of my thought running around my upper brain housing unit; Take the Shimano Arabesque 600/Diacomp setup I have from my 78 SuperCourse or the Shimano 105 series 5500 3x9 from my Zunow.
I have been rolling a Huret Jubilee shifter/RD/FD with Mavic Racers build around in my head.
Thinking also of my latest build here in Cambodia is a 2x10 Flat bar Ultegra/Dura-Ace build (Ultegra for the RD, Flat bar rear shifter, Brakes and flat bar levers with Dura-Ace for the DT front shifter running a Dura-Ace FD.
Full Suntour Superbe Pro would be sweet.
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#40
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Richard Hammond, aka Captain America rode a GB. Was impressed that after he crunched the fork, a matching replacement was sent. The fork met its end when the all aluminum Hi-E skewer let go in a turn.
Ouch!
Ouch!
#41
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So far I have gotten a few suggestions for; 3 for a Nuovo Record, as original, 2 for a Sante group build, 3 for a Huret Jubilee build (I like that one though pricey), 1 or 2 build it modern along with a Mavic and a Suntour suggestion.
So these are a few of my thought running around my upper brain housing unit; Take the Shimano Arabesque 600/Diacomp setup I have from my 78 SuperCourse or the Shimano 105 series 5500 3x9 from my Zunow.
I have been rolling a Huret Jubilee shifter/RD/FD with Mavic Racers build around in my head.
Thinking also of my latest build here in Cambodia is a 2x10 Flat bar Ultegra/Dura-Ace build (Ultegra RD, Flat bar rear shifter, Brakes and flat bar levers with a Dura-Ace DT front shifter running a Dura-Ace FD.
Full Suntour Superbe Pro would be sweet.
So these are a few of my thought running around my upper brain housing unit; Take the Shimano Arabesque 600/Diacomp setup I have from my 78 SuperCourse or the Shimano 105 series 5500 3x9 from my Zunow.
I have been rolling a Huret Jubilee shifter/RD/FD with Mavic Racers build around in my head.
Thinking also of my latest build here in Cambodia is a 2x10 Flat bar Ultegra/Dura-Ace build (Ultegra RD, Flat bar rear shifter, Brakes and flat bar levers with a Dura-Ace DT front shifter running a Dura-Ace FD.
Full Suntour Superbe Pro would be sweet.
The Arabesque 600 crankset and Jubilee RD would complement this frame exceedingly well. I'm not convinced you'd be happy with the Jubilee FD performance.
I'm coming up blank on the brakes though. Early Dura-Ace would be neat and perform well.
-Kurt
#42
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I would love to post the serial number but it is not that easy. I live for the most part in Cambodia and only visit the States 3 months of every 24. I will not see that bike until April at the earliest unless something drastic happens. You might search through the previous thread that Randy had posted when he was looking for information on the bike. The link to that thread is in post #26 .
I just went to the above mentioned thread and Randy had posted an image of the nds drop out with the serial number, 70227
I just went to the above mentioned thread and Randy had posted an image of the nds drop out with the serial number, 70227
So to be clear this stamp is not a Geoffrey Butler Cycles stamp but that of the builder. In the later years of steel Geoffrey Butler Cycles sourced frames from less desirable builders (e.g Nigel Dean frames built in the Falcon factory): not bad frames, but from those who built solely for the trade.
In terms of build, the desirable English build would be, without doubt, Nuovo Record. However, a TA Chainset, Weinmann brakeset, NR transmission...would be an acceptable and realistic - in period - compromise.
John.
Last edited by hobbs1951; 09-06-19 at 10:11 AM.
#43
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Seeing the frame number, and how it appears and the style of stamp, confirms to me what workshop built this frameset (if I could see the frame I could tell you the name of the man who built it). Geoffrey Butler Cycles in this period had three suppliers of frames - two were what you might call Hall of Famers, the third was a respected builder but not in the same league as the two Hall of Famers.
So to be clear this stamp is not a Geoffrey Butler Cycles stamp but that of the builder. In the later years of steel Geoffrey Butler Cycles sourced frames from less desirable builders (e.g Nigel Dean frames built in the Falcon factory): not bad frames, but from those who built solely for the trade.
In terms of build, the desirable English build would be, without doubt, Nuovo Record. However, a TA Chainset, Weinmann brakeset, NR transmission...would be an acceptable and realistic - in period - compromise.
John.
So to be clear this stamp is not a Geoffrey Butler Cycles stamp but that of the builder. In the later years of steel Geoffrey Butler Cycles sourced frames from less desirable builders (e.g Nigel Dean frames built in the Falcon factory): not bad frames, but from those who built solely for the trade.
In terms of build, the desirable English build would be, without doubt, Nuovo Record. However, a TA Chainset, Weinmann brakeset, NR transmission...would be an acceptable and realistic - in period - compromise.
John.
Would that be close to matching what your information is?
#44
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From the thread mentioned in post #26 , Randy stated..."But I have been digging and, to the best of my ability determined that the bicycle is a Geoffery Butler, probably of late sixties vintage and most likely built by Cliff Shrubb. Now that is something but something yet to be proven, however; Cliff did, indeed, as one forum member mentioned, build bicycles for Geoffrey Butler and he (Cliff) would have been doing so in the late sixties. Cliff was also noted for his use of the seat lug that is featured on my bicycle..."
Would that be close to matching what your information is?
Would that be close to matching what your information is?
*I have also been a member of the V-CC for over 30 years, I was born in Croydon and as previously mentioned walked, rode past or went in Geoffrey Butler Cycles on my way to school in the period in question.
John.
N.B went in...usually on the way home, the shop was not open on my way to school !
#45
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The important question is how do YOU want to build it? The peanut gallery will all have their own opinions...but it's YOUR frame. When it's a historic frame, you get into this "need expert opinion on how to restore", but this would have been set up to owner preference, and likely modified many times over the years. You could build this period specific, modern, a mix...it depends on what you want the bike to be and how you want to use it.
Personally...I think Sante is hideous on almost any build, and would be pretty awful here...but that's one guy's opinion, and it's not my bike.
Personally...I think Sante is hideous on almost any build, and would be pretty awful here...but that's one guy's opinion, and it's not my bike.
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#46
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Ah, memories.
I got my hands on a new, unpainted Geoffrey Butler frame from the factory in 1974. Very similar to the photo, except the fork had a sloping crown.
It was my first "serious" build. Full Campy Record (except the brakes, which were Shimano). Cinelli bars and stem. Record small flange hubs, Fiamme Yellow Label rims, silk tubulars, Brooks Professional saddle.
I cherished that bike.
I got my hands on a new, unpainted Geoffrey Butler frame from the factory in 1974. Very similar to the photo, except the fork had a sloping crown.
It was my first "serious" build. Full Campy Record (except the brakes, which were Shimano). Cinelli bars and stem. Record small flange hubs, Fiamme Yellow Label rims, silk tubulars, Brooks Professional saddle.
I cherished that bike.
I had a pair of yellow (gold) labels but I was too heavy for them when riding the atrocious streets of NYC.
Ditto for tubular tires of any type - the streets were too dirty and filled with glass shards. I was constantly repairing flats and they "broke the back" of my limited budget.
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This frame, belonging to another forum member, still wears the GB art. The frames are identical...
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