The new trend of cyclist switching bikes during a race.
07-26-15, 01:41 AM
#1
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The new trend of cyclist switching bikes during a race.
It seems to bother me a bit. Do they go test those bikes they are switching off for anything like electric motors or too light of a build?? Should there be a limit of how many times they are allowed to switch bikes during a race**********? I think it's an issue they have to deal with in the future has it's happening more...
What do you think????
What do you think????
07-26-15, 02:02 AM
#2
Senior Member
Oh... to return to the days when Eugène Christophe breaks is fork mid race, hikes 10 km to the nearest village, where he personally welds his fork back together by forge, then resumes the race on the same bike.
I have no doubt all the bikes are tested and inspected before or after the race, at least in the big international events. Don't they put official number tags on the primary and secondary bikes?
Bikes do get mangled in the crashes.
The races are designed to test rider performance, and allow the riders to resume the races as quickly as possible after flat tires, major crashes, or mechanical failure. Unfortunately some riders might abuse the system and choose to change bikes solely based on terrain.
An option might be to require all replacement bikes to be configured identically to the primary bike... either on a per day or per event basis. Doing so would prevent frivolous changes of bikes.
I have no doubt all the bikes are tested and inspected before or after the race, at least in the big international events. Don't they put official number tags on the primary and secondary bikes?
Bikes do get mangled in the crashes.
The races are designed to test rider performance, and allow the riders to resume the races as quickly as possible after flat tires, major crashes, or mechanical failure. Unfortunately some riders might abuse the system and choose to change bikes solely based on terrain.
An option might be to require all replacement bikes to be configured identically to the primary bike... either on a per day or per event basis. Doing so would prevent frivolous changes of bikes.
07-26-15, 03:31 AM
#3
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Haven't noticed any 'trend'.
Contador I think has done it a couple of times and it happened in an ITT where there was a clear change of terrain. Nibali did it at the foot of the Alpe but clearly that was because he got a rear puncture.
If riders were doing it regularly for no apparent reason I'm sure it would raise suspicions.
Contador I think has done it a couple of times and it happened in an ITT where there was a clear change of terrain. Nibali did it at the foot of the Alpe but clearly that was because he got a rear puncture.
If riders were doing it regularly for no apparent reason I'm sure it would raise suspicions.
07-26-15, 10:27 AM
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I can think of a few stages in prior years, when riders deliberately changed bikes before climbs. There was a mountain ITT in the Giro recently, for example, where they rode TT bikes for the initial flatter part then many switched to conventional road bikes for the steeper part.
What's the problem with that? More variables, more tactics, and the change costs time so it isn't free.
Yes, spare and replaced bikes get pulled off the team cars for tests.
Motors on bikes are easy to detect by inspection (pull the bottom bracket).
What's the problem with that? More variables, more tactics, and the change costs time so it isn't free.
Yes, spare and replaced bikes get pulled off the team cars for tests.
Motors on bikes are easy to detect by inspection (pull the bottom bracket).
07-26-15, 10:58 AM
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The more important question is - has it worked for those who've tried it?
It hasn't worked for Contador AFAIK. Seems like a waste of momentum for little to no real gains...
It hasn't worked for Contador AFAIK. Seems like a waste of momentum for little to no real gains...
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07-27-15, 07:29 AM
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I can think of a few stages in prior years, when riders deliberately changed bikes before climbs. There was a mountain ITT in the Giro recently, for example, where they rode TT bikes for the initial flatter part then many switched to conventional road bikes for the steeper part.
What's the problem with that? More variables, more tactics, and the change costs time so it isn't free.
Yes, spare and replaced bikes get pulled off the team cars for tests.
Motors on bikes are easy to detect by inspection (pull the bottom bracket).
What's the problem with that? More variables, more tactics, and the change costs time so it isn't free.
Yes, spare and replaced bikes get pulled off the team cars for tests.
Motors on bikes are easy to detect by inspection (pull the bottom bracket).
Now it is a sport where you get done for the day, get a massage from a professional masseuse for your team, you have a support staff who sleep in air conditioned RVs, and you have a car loaded with spare bikes and wheels and mechanics who do everything but turn the pedals for you following you all day long. You also wheelsuck all day long in the peloton to avoid having to do any work. We've pretty much gotten as far from what the TdF used to be as we can get, which does rankle.
I don't think I've ever seen a bike change really do any good. Most that can be said is that it had mitigated any potential losses.
Last edited by Marcus_Ti; 07-27-15 at 07:35 AM.
07-27-15, 09:34 AM
#9
Professional Fuss-Budget
Ehh, it doesn't bother me. There are very few instances where a deliberate bike switch is going to be worth the time and effort. They'll figure that out pretty quickly.
07-27-15, 09:39 AM
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Per CliffordK, I think part of it is the further loss of romance over the Hard Man Days of cycling. Where any crazy could take on the tour and had to carry their own servicing equipment...where the riders had to know how to change and fix their own flats (or worse) in the middle of unpaved mountain goat roads...and where even finishing was a milestone.
07-27-15, 09:41 AM
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I suspect Contador's bike changing was either for gearing, or to switch to those mis-shapen chainrings going up mountains.
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07-27-15, 09:44 AM
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Contador's bike switch was for a bike that used special lube and had a few other tricks which supposedly saved a few watts of energy. Given that there is a minimum weight limit on bikes, he didn't do it to save weight.
07-27-15, 09:59 AM
#13
Why didn't the original bike have 'special lube'?
07-27-15, 10:16 AM
#14
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From the 2013 hilly time trial - two approaches.
Tour Tech: How bike change strategy shaped the stage 17 time trial - VeloNews.com
Tour Tech: How bike change strategy shaped the stage 17 time trial - VeloNews.com
Alberto Contador (Saxo-Tinkoff) stayed on the same bike for the entire time trial, a Specialized Venge aero road frame with drop bars, aero extensions, and a rear disc wheel. He finished second. His teammate, Roman Kreuziger, swapped the disc for a Zipp 404, and finished fourth.Chris Froome (Sky) rode his Pinarello Dogma 65.1road frame with superlight wheels, drop bars, aero extensions, and a modified saddle position until near the top of the second of two Cat. 2 climbs, where he threw a leg over his Bolide time trial bike. He won the stage, taking another 10 seconds out of Contador on the GC.
There was no universally perfect setup, applicable to every rider.
“We made the decision not to change to a TT bike. Instead, we rode with a disk wheel,” Contador said after the stage. “It was the right decision for me. I am content with the TT today.”
Froome made a different decision. Following a final recon of the course on Wednesday morning, he and his Sky staff made the call to swap bikes near the top of the second climb. “We thought that the final part of the course was better-suited for the TT bike. I think it made the winning difference because I was still behind Alberto at the second time check,” he said.
There was no universally perfect setup, applicable to every rider.
“We made the decision not to change to a TT bike. Instead, we rode with a disk wheel,” Contador said after the stage. “It was the right decision for me. I am content with the TT today.”
Froome made a different decision. Following a final recon of the course on Wednesday morning, he and his Sky staff made the call to swap bikes near the top of the second climb. “We thought that the final part of the course was better-suited for the TT bike. I think it made the winning difference because I was still behind Alberto at the second time check,” he said.
07-27-15, 10:26 AM
#15
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If you are a Professional, on a team and the leader of the team needs a new bike for any reason, a team mate gives him theirs,
then the support car replaces the supporting team member's bike , when he can get up to them.
then perhaps the team support car will get up to the leader , and give them a spare bike of theirs ,
all set up to the exact same fit as the one he needed replaced back down the Road
the time total is the person riding the bike .
1906 the rules were different.
I recall something like a Pro Racer commandeered a Fan's bike by the roadside , and swapped with them .
(no Clue about the rules on that)
then the support car replaces the supporting team member's bike , when he can get up to them.
then perhaps the team support car will get up to the leader , and give them a spare bike of theirs ,
all set up to the exact same fit as the one he needed replaced back down the Road
the time total is the person riding the bike .
1906 the rules were different.
I recall something like a Pro Racer commandeered a Fan's bike by the roadside , and swapped with them .
(no Clue about the rules on that)
Last edited by fietsbob; 07-27-15 at 10:29 AM.
07-27-15, 10:38 AM
#16
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Huh, that sounds interesting. In 1906, you might have found yourself without pneumatic tires.
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07-27-15, 10:39 AM
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This is about this bike form last year, Tour de France bike: Alberto Contador?s Specialized S-Works
I haven't been able to find anything on the web from this year but this is what I remember the commentators saying.
07-27-15, 10:48 AM
#18
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In 1906, you might have found yourself without pneumatic tires.
Pneumatic tires were already a thing by the beginning of the 19th century.
"In October 1887, John Boyd Dunlop developed the first practical [/FONT][/COLOR]pneumatic or inflatable tyre for his son's tricycle..."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Boyd_Dunlop
Then the racers wore spare tires like a bandolier over shoulder across chest.
Last edited by fietsbob; 07-27-15 at 10:51 AM.
07-27-15, 10:55 AM
#19
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True, I was just thinking that grabbing a bystander's bike might get you something you weren't expecting. But then, if the choice was that or being done, you might just take your chances.
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07-27-15, 11:06 AM
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If you are a Professional, on a team and the leader of the team needs a new bike for any reason, a team mate gives him theirs,
then the support car replaces the supporting team member's bike , when he can get up to them.
then perhaps the team support car will get up to the leader , and give them a spare bike of theirs ,
all set up to the exact same fit as the one he needed replaced back down the Road
the time total is the person riding the bike .
1906 the rules were different.
I recall something like a Pro Racer commandeered a Fan's bike by the roadside , and swapped with them .
(no Clue about the rules on that)
then the support car replaces the supporting team member's bike , when he can get up to them.
then perhaps the team support car will get up to the leader , and give them a spare bike of theirs ,
all set up to the exact same fit as the one he needed replaced back down the Road
the time total is the person riding the bike .
1906 the rules were different.
I recall something like a Pro Racer commandeered a Fan's bike by the roadside , and swapped with them .
(no Clue about the rules on that)
07-27-15, 12:58 PM
#22
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Unless you are Pinot. Then you refuse your teammates bike, throw a fit and lose three minutes waiting for YOUR bike.
Last edited by Laggard; 07-27-15 at 01:23 PM.
07-27-15, 07:08 PM
#24
Professional Fuss-Budget
Froome also did a bike swap in the middle of one of the TT's in 2013. IIRC the first half featured a climb, so he used a lighteweight bike; on the second half, he used a more standard (and heavier) TT bike. As noted at the time, it worked out for Froome, but it also cost him at least 10 seconds.
It's not very common -- I only recall seeing it twice this year. I for one don't expect it to be common moving forward, either.
07-27-15, 07:56 PM
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Per CliffordK, I think part of it is the further loss of romance over the Hard Man Days of cycling. Where any crazy could take on the tour and had to carry their own servicing equipment...where the riders had to know how to change and fix their own flats (or worse) in the middle of unpaved mountain goat roads...and where even finishing was a milestone.
Now it is a sport where you get done for the day, get a massage from a professional masseuse for your team, you have a support staff who sleep in air conditioned RVs, and you have a car loaded with spare bikes and wheels and mechanics who do everything but turn the pedals for you following you all day long. You also wheelsuck all day long in the peloton to avoid having to do any work. We've pretty much gotten as far from what the TdF used to be as we can get, which does rankle.
Now it is a sport where you get done for the day, get a massage from a professional masseuse for your team, you have a support staff who sleep in air conditioned RVs, and you have a car loaded with spare bikes and wheels and mechanics who do everything but turn the pedals for you following you all day long. You also wheelsuck all day long in the peloton to avoid having to do any work. We've pretty much gotten as far from what the TdF used to be as we can get, which does rankle.
