Ai52487963

This winter I want to get an indoor trainer. I'm wondering if there's a way to have something like a smart trainer allow me to compete over strava segments remotely. I have lofty goals of riding in events that go over some race tracks across the globe but travelling to Germany is sort of expensive.

Is this technology a reality yet?

rms13

Like Zwift?

Ai52487963

I heard Zwift was basically limited to Watopia and that London course though. I don't really need a graphical interface, just to be able to train on a segment remotely. Or does Zwift already do that? I don't really know much about its functionality.

smarkinson

I think cycleops virtual trainer software will do this. You ride on a course and can upload the GPS track to strava. It's not really a polite thing to do though.

https://www.olympum.com/sports/cycleops-virtualtraining

Redbullet

There are systems that offer applications to simulate rides. Tacx trainer, for example, offers an (expensive) application, but I'm sure that other brands have similar functionalities. You can download GPS data from a ride you performed, or create a route on Google Maps or other means, then upload it into the application of the trainer, then... you simply ride that route at home (but without video). I think you can also download Strava rides or routes.
However: downloaded GPS data are many times inaccurate: you might frequently encounter short 10-15% gradients that block you, while in reality that segment is a longer 5% slope. You can adjust such discrepancies manually, but overall, is a time consuming process.

Dan333SP

Is the goal to just be able to see your own times on a simulated version of the segment, or to actually upload your virtual times to real leaderboards?

We've been discussing this in the Zwift cheating thread, because it's happened here in Richmond thanks to the UCI course that they used to run in Zwift.

TL;DR it's poor form to try to get your virtual rides to appear against real rides. If you just want to ride a virtual version of a course then I think Bkool allows that, but there are too many ways you can cheat while "virtual riding", so people will not be happy to see your times up there, even if they're not at the top.

Marcus_Ti

It is not possible due to the thermodynamics of the human body. Tech has nothing to do with it.


You cannot ever ride an indoor bicycle trainer CLOSE to as hard indoors as you can ride a bike outdoors.

gregf83 

Sure you can. You just need a decent fan. I spent one winter riding a trainer outdoors on a patio in sub-zero temps. Still boring but the view was better.

Dan333SP

Lol wut? Sure you can. Generally your HR would be a bit higher for a given power indoors and your FTP would be a bit lower, but it's really not that different and you can push yourself to the breaking point on a trainer. It just sucks.

PepeM

Bkool allows you to upload your own routes, so you could 'ride' them beforehand. As for Strava segments, I sure hope it is not possible to actually be on the leaderboards (pretty sure it is not) plus I wouldn't trust the speed given by a software when compared to your real speed. Zwift thinks I am way faster than I really am, for example.

OldTryGuy

Sure can. BIG FAN on high and lower the A/C and go for it.

silversx80

This. I use both the CycleOps Virtual Training (CVT) app on my iPad, and Zwift... both with a Wahoo Kickr. While both are great in their own right, I tend to use Zwift significantly more. Zwift offers virtual races with real people, in real time, as well as other social aspects that CVT is lacking. I feel like I don't have to suffer alone with Zwift.

Where CVT has the leg up is that there is much more flexibility. I can download the "Route Editor" app on my home computer and create routes using map data only (no need to create a ride based off GPS), or I can create my own route from a previous ride using GPS location and elevation tracking. Furthermore, I can add video to that route for some additional stimuli. Add to the fact that there are a lot of user-generated routes, many with videos, and it's a pretty complete indoor training experience.

CVT, for me, really shines in workouts. Just like Zwift workouts, I program in my interval sets all based off FTP and it's pretty cut and dry. Where it's better than Zwift is that when I want to program in a very intense workout, I've got a bailout if in the middle of the workout I can't hang, or I'm feeling stronger than expected; I can adjust the current interval block, mid block, by 5% of FTP, up or down. I LOVE that feature, and wish Zwift would incorporate it. The other thing CVT offers is that you can zero out (calibrate) the Kickr directly from the app (if using a Bluetooth connection).

All said and done, I still like Zwift more, but it seems that CVT might fit your needs/wants better.

This is GREAT news for my e-wang! My indoor FTP is about 4.5 W/kg, so my outdoor FTP must be at least 5 W/kg... if only the race results would agree .

Dan333SP

Jeez, I hope you're winning races with that sort of threshold. That's an impressive number.

mvnsnd

With the new smart trainers and ANT+ FEC, couldn't one use a previous gps track to ride that ride again on the trainer? Assuming the ride includes the segment in question.

PepeM

Yes, which is what a few people above you have already said.

silversx80

If only... my 5-sec and 1-min suck... and so do my tactics... and the race scene here in central SC is as barren as the last generation of the House of Tudor. At least Zwift lets me scratch the itch.

Dan333SP

That means you and [MENTION=406877]PepeM[/MENTION] have a lot in common!

PepeM

If the Zwift Riders group on Facebook is anything to go by, Zwifters are completely obsessed with FTP or, more accurately, twenty minute power, since none of them seems to understand FTP at all. I bet they can all ride a mean 20 minute time trial but not much else.

silversx80

lol

I think that's pretty much accurate for the majority of riders with a power meter since most training plans are based off FTP. Test FTP -> train FTP -> Test FTP and get 5W more -> train FTP -> you see where this is going. It's pretty easy to fall into the trap. It's like the gym-bros who train mirror muscles only.

Dan333SP

Can we all agree to call people who brag about their trainer-tested FTP as ZwiftBros? I like that.

silversx80

I'm on board.

My name is Joe, and I'm a ZwiftBro.

PepeM

Watch it there, my 1 minute power is beastly*. My 5 seconds power is laughable though and the less said about my tactics the better.



Apparently I'm 78% world class.

*for someone who sucks

PepeM

My name is Pepe and I am a Zwiftbro.

cthenn

Sadly, that will get you maybe top 5 (maybe a podium in a small race) in Cat 4 here in NorCal.

I never understood the 20 minute test and extrapolating that to FTP. Everything I read says the same thing, do a 20 minute test then multiply by 0.95, and voila, FTP! That doesn't even seem close to right, at least not for me...maybe I'm not doing it right, lol! My threshold for 20-25 minutes is way more than what I can do for a full freakin' hour!

Dan333SP

Welcome, Pepe. Thank you for sharing. My name is Dan and I am a ZwiftBro as well. I avoid the mountain loop in Zwift because I don't want my average speed to suffer.

Boy, that felt good to admit in public.