berkeley23

pardon my ignorance, but I thought I would ask you kind BFers, since neither the googles nor BF search are answering my question(s):
what's with the 1987 cut-off for l'eroica? Is it just the date of when the ride started? Is it also the cut-off for classic & vintage? Is it inclusive of bikes made in 1987? does it have anything to do with friction vs. index shifting? advent of aluminum? what other questions haven't I asked that will get me the information I am after?

thanks in advance for increasing my c&v knowledge!

Wildwood 

A regular question.
Some say it's up to each person to answer for themselves.
For me, friction downtube shifters. Maybe just downtube shifters, which allows indexing and aero hoods.
No exceptions, punishable by banishment.

edit:
OK, a Merlin Ti, was pretty classic.
And some of early CF, vintage now and a classic precursor to modern bikes.
And Klein made some classic aluminium frames.

re-edit: Maybe a few others, but only with tubulars.

but remember - private clubs and private organizations are free to define CorV bikes per their standards.
[MENTION=466250]berkeley23[/MENTION] - for fast, complete list of opinions/comments Search is your friend.

Wildwood 

https://www.bikeforums.net/classic-vi...ear-model.html

Try this thread.


Or this one.

https://www.bikeforums.net/classic-vi...pe-events.html

qcpmsame 

The thought about searching here is a good start to try and answer that common question here and elsewhere. I have read here, and at both Classic Rendezvous and Velobase, their reasoning for a specific 80s year being the cut off mainly due to the advent of indexed shifting, but someone else with lots of knowledge will have to answer this one. We have some folks that are big time into l'Eroica events both here, and across the pond, maybe they will be along shortly.

l'Eroica is getting some slack in their rules, the Bianchi l'Eroica bike they produced is listed as being compliant now, but Bianchi is a major sponsor for the events so that one gets some sideways looks. Its a neat bike but it seems that they got a pass with it to me, please don't throw too many things at me.....

Bill

rccardr 

Generally speaking, the folks at L'Eroica (at least in CA) are fine with your equipment if you're trying to emulate the spirit of the event. There is no inquisition team, nobody checking into the manufacture date of your frame.

Phil_gretz

I think that if you can get Accushift to work, you should be able to use it. And wear the medal for having done so successfully.

cdmurphy

I don't think there are any 100% hard and fast reasons for any particular cutoff date. Mostly, it's just the idea that "modern" changes like aero brake levers, indexed shifting, and clipless pedals all debuted in the mid 80's, and within a few years really transformed modern racing bikes. Prior to that, the pace of change had been much slower. A world class racing bike from 1980 wouldn't be appreciably different from one made in the early 1960's, other than a extra cog on the rear, and tighter tire clearances.

bikemig 

+ 100 on this; you get the special C&V medal of honor if you do.

Wulf

For me its a list of characteristics:
Lugged or fillet brazed frame - Welded OKiff Alu or Ti.
Horizontal top tube
Curved forks.
No disc brakes except on tandems
Freewheel and friction shifters.
No brifters..

Wileyone 

No throwing things from this direction Bill. I agree with you 100%. The Bianchi should not be eligible. They should try and stick to their own rules.

corrado33

I vote anything before brifters.

Fivethumbs

Based on what I saw and heard in the cycling community during that time period is that at that point in time the Japanese component manufacturers began to eclipse Campagnolo in terms of function and cost Also, from what I heard the original L'Eroica people are hardcore Campyphiles. They remember with fondness a time when Italian steel bikes reigned and Campy was king. The mid-80s brought Japanese innovations such as Indexed shifting, aero brake levers, brakes with helper springs in the levers, the switch from freewheels to freehubs, and ski binding-type clipless pedals (invented by Look, very quickly licensed by Shimano). This may also help to explain why no clipless pedals are allowed except the Campy M71s.

DMC707

I vote for the 20 year rule -- The Pinarello's of Indurain, Riis and Ullrich are pretty primitive looking compared to the Pin's of Wiggins and Froome

theK00L_AIDman

I would say horizontal top tube, no brifters, high tensile, Crmo frame, etc. I would say it's vintage if it's both older than this year's college graduates AND it lacks what we consider hallmarks of a modern road bike, which would be brifters, an aluminium or carbon frame, has traditional geometry, etc. I just finished restoring a 1989 Nikishi Performance Equipe that under the 1987 definition is not vintage, yet it is the same as the 1987 model which is. Crmo frame, downtube shifters, etc. In fact, you could compare it to a 1980, or even 1970 bike and it's going to be pretty much the same technology except its rear shifter is indexed (poorly... thanks Suntour!)

BUT that defintion can, should, and WILL change. Time doesn't stand still. Soon enough early brifter bikes will be considered vintage due to their age AND the continuing march of bike technology. The same way that 30 years ago Motley Crue or Van Halen were just rock...now they're "classic rock".

rccardr 

I won't throw anything at you either, Bill, but the rules say even a brand new frame is eligble if properly equipped. They addressed this issue the same way even before the Bianchi bike was announced. I know this because the frame I rode in my first Eroica event was made in 1990, but equipped with early 80's Super Record. Nobody even asked about manufacture date, but I sure got a lot of complements about how pretty the bike looked.

repechage

by 1987 there were a few race bike features that really did set them apart from what came before:

Index shifting became ubiquitous later followed by integrated brake and shift levers which extended the difference.

"Clipless" pedals, Look then the patent workarounds by others. (we will ignore the Cinelli M71 pedal, not practical for road use)

On this forum, the group is pretty tolerant of time warps.
Other digital venues, some not so much.

Classtime 

All I know is that it is really really fun trying to hang with the fast guys on a vintage group ride. Wheel sucking behind a group of old Bianchis and such and most of them 5 and 6 speed and then watching all the other beautiful bikes pass me by is a kick. Later in the ride, taking turns with a sloping top tube tigged 9 speed with indexing ON is not so much fun.

Wildwood 

Aside from the regulated events, it's mostly about how much geekiness you embrace.

Taken to an extreme, cosplay is big with a lot of people, why not vintage cycling? The 'costumes' are frequently already in the closet. Come out of your closets!

My original Look pedals should be included (Greg wore them early on) to get my entry fee. It's how i ride.
Usually, i'm eliminated.

T-Mar

No, it's L'Eroica, so the medal is for anyone riding with functioning 1st generation Syncro, which is now L'Eroica compliant!

ThermionicScott 

It's hard to capture the intended "spirit" of an event in written rules, so they will always be arbitrary on some level.

non-fixie 

This.

1987 is just a useful guideline, as that was more or less when non-aero models disappeared from the catalogues.

And the spirit of the event is that we all try our very best to be Fausto, Gino, Felice or Ottavio. Or maybe Eddy, Freddy or Briek. Or Louison or Jacques.

davester

I disagree completely. We're talking about 1987 here. Japanese components were displacing Campy parts before that. Also, french components and french and british bikes were a major part of the racing scene prior to the 1980s so this has nothing to do with Campagnolo and Italian bike chauvinism as you imply.

iab

1936 should be the date. Desgrange started the slippery slope to poseurville.

ThermionicScott 

Don't you mean Jacques Goddet?

Fivethumbs

I guess we must agree to disagree. Every one of the innovations I mentioned were Japanese inventions and were available in the 80's prior to 1987 and yet none are allowed at L'Eroica. I have no idea why they chose 1987 as the cutoff date. It seems pretty arbitrary given the fact that so many pre-1987 component choices are prohibited.